What is a Christian?

[Loupey]

One last question from me (I ask a lot of questions ):

There has been a lot of reference to biblical passages and scriptures in this thread. Is it not true that some of the origins or subsequent translations or further rewritings (to which many of you are referencing and with which many of you were taught) were done by the hand of Man?

And Man, despite the best of intentions (which are still intentions), is susceptible to inaccuracies, religious/political pressures, and personal needs.

So can’t there be even the slightest possibility that what many of you are referencing may be “not accurate”? After all these years?

[Solo]

Its a battle to be waged within our own hearts, our foe is our ego, not cultural diversity.

Solo - do you like photography?

- An unjust man is an abomination to the just: and he that is upright in the way is abomination to the wicked. Proverbs 29:27

Is it permissable for me to address you in order to answer your question to me? I ask because of your former quote some 16 posts back of this current one:

Solo you are trolling, you can call it divine judgment all you want, I am done with this silly bickering. Stop addressing me, I have nothing to say to you.

I will answer your post, and thank you for reconsidering my addressing you.

I like photography.

[adina]

Comparing whether or not there is one god and whether or not the earth revolves around the sun is like comparing apples to oranges. The earth revolves around the sun, this has been proven by science. There is one god, this is proven true only to those who believe and follow that religion. And you can quote all the scripture you want, because to someone who doens't believe it in the vein of religion that you do, the bible is just another book. Quoting the bible does not prove, thru science, that there is one god.

The truth of religion is subject to your beliefs.

For example, the Wiccan religion is largly based on the freedom to act, along with taking responsibility for your actions, while bringing as little harm to others as possible. For them, this is a complete truth, yet you see it as a lie because it contradicts your religion and belief system.

Things that are proven thru science are accepted as universal truths. Things that you believe are truth because of where your beliefs lie, are not truthful to everyone, and therefor can't be accepted as a universal truth, except to those who's belief falls in line with yours.
Where is Mr Fanilli? No one argues science better than him....

[christiansoldier]

Having covered some ground in the OP question "What is a Christian" perhaps we should give some thought to the practical application of Christianity, as a believer.

Christian Duties

As we go through our daily lives as Christians, how are we to relate to those we encounter along the way?

One of the most prolific inspired writers of the New Testament, originally known as Saul, described himself, in his address to King Agrippa, thusly:

Acts 26

4My manner of life from my youth, which was at the first among mine own nation at Jerusalem, know all the Jews;

5Which knew me from the beginning, if they would testify, that after the most straitest sect of our religion I lived a Pharisee.

6And now I stand and am judged for the hope of the promise made of God, unto our fathers:

7Unto which promise our twelve tribes, instantly serving God day and night, hope to come. For which hope's sake, king Agrippa, I am accused of the Jews.

8Why should it be thought a thing incredible with you, that God should raise the dead?

9I verily thought with myself, that I ought to do many things contrary to the name of Jesus of Nazareth.

10Which thing I also did in Jerusalem: and many of the saints did I shut up in prison, having received authority from the chief priests; and when they were put to death, I gave my voice against them.

11And I punished them oft in every synagogue, and compelled them to blaspheme; and being exceedingly mad against them, I persecuted them even unto strange cities.

Here was a man on a mission – to persecute Christians! Who would have imagined that such a man would be called for such a Glorious purpose? Yet reading on we find:

12Whereupon as I went to Damascus with authority and commission from the chief priests,

13At midday, O king, I saw in the way a light from heaven, above the brightness of the sun, shining round about me and them which journeyed with me.

14And when we were all fallen to the earth, I heard a voice speaking unto me, and saying in the Hebrew tongue, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.

15And I said, Who art thou, Lord? And he said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest.

16But rise, and stand upon thy feet: for I have appeared unto thee for this purpose, to make thee a minister and a witness both of these things which thou hast seen, and of those things in the which I will appear unto thee;

17Delivering thee from the people, and from the Gentiles, unto whom now I send thee,

18To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.

Consider also:

Acts 1

8But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

Clearly, we, who have likewise been called as followers of Jesus Christ, have been admonished to be Salt and Light to the world.

Matthew 5

13Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men.

14Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.

15Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house.

16Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

Putting this into practice requires more than a passive role. Often it requires us to step outside of our comfort zones and, perhaps, to cross some conventional lines of ‘political correctness’. It also requires us to set aside certain preconceived notions or misconceptions and actually inquire into the eternal security of our acquaintances, neighbors and co-workers.

Think about it; when is the last time someone inquired into your eternal security?

...

Imagine my surprise when I had a conversation some time back with a fellow who, upon inquiry, professed to be a Buddhist. He cited a number of reasons why Christianity and Judaism did not hold credibility for him. Regrettably, I did not have an opportunity to witness more to him before he departed from my sphere of influence. I can only pray that a seed was sown during our brief discussion.


...


Mark 8

38Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he cometh in the glory of his Father with the holy angels.

...

Excerpt: CS Newsletter Vol. 1, No. 10

[christiansoldier]

Things that are proven thru science are accepted as universal truths.

Not an accurate statement:

http://www.eadshome.com/Sciencequotes.htm

http://www.icr.org/science/

[adina]

Not an accurate statement:

http://www.eadshome.com/Sciencequotes.htm

Interesting that the source you've posted is a source that agrees with your religious beliefs.

However, I will amend.

For me, things that have been proven by science are more acceptable as absolute truth than those that are based in religion.


Here's a two million dollar question. Why the guise of a question asking what we believe a christian is if you (you general, not you specifically) are going to batter the fact that you believe we are wrong over our heads for 9 pages of posts? Why not just say, here's what I believe, I don't really want to discuss it, I just want you to believe it too.

[Solo]

One last question from me (I ask a lot of questions ):

There has been a lot of reference to biblical passages and scriptures in this thread. Is it not true that some of the origins or subsequent translations or further rewritings (to which many of you are referencing and with which many of you were taught) were done by the hand of Man?

And Man, despite the best of intentions (which are still intentions), is susceptible to inaccuracies, religious/political pressures, and personal needs.

So can’t there be even the slightest possibility that what many of you are referencing may be “not accurate”? After all these years?

Jesus wasn't concerned about the accuracy of the Old Testament books that He quoted from, as He recognized God's Word can only be changed if God allows it. John reveals that Jesus is God in the following Scripture:

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men. 5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not. 6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe. 8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light. 9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world. 10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. 11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not. 12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. 14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. John 1:1-14

Jesus makes the following statement in Matthew 24:35:

35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

Jesus quoted from 24 books of the Old Testament. Moses wrote the Pentateuch, or the first five books of the Old Testament, sometime after 1313 BC. Jesus made the statement concerning the books of Moses and the prophets:

25 Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken: 26 Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory? 27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself. Luke 24:25-27

43 I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive. 44 How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and seek not the honour that cometh from God only? 45 Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust. 46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me. 47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words? John 5:43-47

The New Testament writers quote from 34 of 39 books of the Old Testament Books.
These 5 books are never quoted in the New Testament: Ezra, Nehemiah, Esther, Ecclesiastes, Song of Solomon. It is not significant that these books: Ezra, Nehemiah, Esther, Ecclesiastes, Song of Solomon, were never quoted in the New Testament, because they were part of "collections" of Old Testament books. Since other books within the same collection were quoted, this shows them too to be inspired.

The New Testament writers never quote from the any of the apocryphal books written between 400 - 200 BC. What is significant here is that NONE of the books within the "apocryphal collection" are every quoted.

Can we believe what is said in the books of Moses and the Prophets and the books contained in the collection of books called the Old Testament? Jesus quoted from them as being truth.

Can we believe what is said in the books written by Jesus' Apostles in the collection of books called the New Testament? The Apostle Paul, inspired of the Holy Spirit, states the following in 2 Timothy 3:16:

16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

The Apostle Peter states the following concerning the Scriptures and the writings of the Apostle Paul:

15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; 16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. 2 Peter 3:15-16

Some of the gods that some folks have cannot keep their words on paper to remain throughout the generations of men, but God Almighty, creator of heaven and earth has no trouble keeping his word for those who are becoming sons of God through Jesus Christ until the end.

[christiansoldier]

Why not just say, here's what I believe, I don't really want to discuss it, I just want you to believe it too.

It is only through discourse that I (we) know that you (they) are awake and paying attention.

Have you taken a moment to reflect upon why we even care what you believe?

[Dave Smith]

How did this thread become so un-Godly?

The initial question asked was "... With so many people calling themselves Christians, I would like to hear from individuals what they believe a true Christian to be...."

How did this thread (with very few exceptions) become a blathering of
"My religion is the only way ..."
"I am right ... you are wrong ..."
"You are an idiot ... No I'm not, you are"

Javier is correct in that so many people call themselves "Christian". I found the following when I checked Wikipedia:

"A wide range of beliefs and practices among those in the US who call themselves "Christian" was identified by a 2007 survey commissioned by Christianity Today. The study found that self-described Christians clustered into five distinctive and nearly equal-sized groups that were named and described by the researchers:

Active Christians: Believe salvation comes through Jesus Christ, are committed churchgoers and Bible readers, accept church leadership positions and invest in personal faith development through the church. They also feel obligated to share faith, and about four out of five do so.

Professing Christians: Also are committed to "accepting Christ as Savior and Lord" as the key to being a Christian (almost 9 in 10), but focus on one's personal relationships with God and Jesus more than on church and Bible reading and sharing faith.

Liturgical Christians: Predominantly Catholics and Lutherans who regularly attend church, recognize the authority of the church, and maintain a high level of spiritual activity, mostly expressed by serving in church and/or community.

Private Christians: The largest and youngest segment. They believe in God and in doing good things but not within church context. Only about 1 in 3 attend church at all.

Cultural Christians: Do not view Jesus as essential to salvation. They are the least likely to align their beliefs or practices with biblical teachings, or attend church. They favor a universality theology that sees many ways to God."

My 2 cents ...
I am not sure where (or even if) I fit in the above five groups. I know I have a very deep and personal relationship with my Lord and God. Are you right? Am I wrong? I do not know. I do know that my belief is unshakable. Nothing said here will change my belief, or (probably) the beliefs of others.

Well Javier you got the only answer I can or will give.

Pax vobiscum

[Solo]

Comparing whether or not there is one god and whether or not the earth revolves around the sun is like comparing apples to oranges.

That is an opinion. The truth is that there is either one God or many Gods or no Gods. The truth is truth whether or not one has proof of same.

The earth revolves around the sun, this has been proven by science.

Again, the earth revolving around the sun is truth, whether proven by science or not. You can now know that the earth revolves around the sun since science has proven it to you, and you have no need of faith to believe same.

There is one god, this is proven true only to those who believe and follow that religion.

For the sake of understanding, and for this conversation, let us say that there is One God, and this One God is the God Almighty that Jesus calls Our Heavenly Father. Assuming this as being true, then God is One God and is the Almighty God that Jesus referred to as Our Heavenly Father. This is then truth, whether you or I believe it or not. The truth and fact of the matter is that God is One God even if we believe that there are many gods. We would be deceived and wrong if we believed different, and would be spredding lies concerning God if we stated that there were many gods.

And you can quote all the scripture you want, because to someone who doens't believe it in the vein of religion that you do, the bible is just another book. Quoting the bible does not prove, thru science, that there is one god.

In other words, If it is true that God Almighty is one God and has revealed himself to us through His Word, He can talk until he is blue in the face, those who refuse to believe will not believe and will follow whatever vein of religion there merry ole soul wants to in order not to believe the truth.

That is exactly what Jesus said in John 3.

19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. F9 21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

The truth of religion is subject to your beliefs.

This statement is a false statement. Truth is not dependent upon our beliefs. Truth is there for the finding, and it is irrelevant as to whether our beliefs concur.

Two basic frames of reference to reality exist in this world today. The first one is that whatever is real is real whether we see it, hear it, feel it, taste it, or smell it. In other words, what is real is real whether our senses observe it or not. The second frame of reference to reality is that whatever we perceive is real. The second frame of reference is a false perception of reality, and will cause the beholder of same much sorrow in the end.

Truth is Truth whether we believe it or not. Truth is Truth whether we percieve it or not.

God has revealed the truth to all mankind, and there exists two camps at the end of it all. Those who believe and those who do not. Believe in what? The Truth.

For example, the Wiccan religion is largly based on the freedom to act, along with taking responsibility for your actions, while bringing as little harm to others as possible. For them, this is a complete truth, yet you see it as a lie because it contradicts your religion and belief system.

I see the Wiccan religion as a false religion because it does not espouse the Truth of the Word of God, and because it does not espouse the Truth of the Word of God it will fail those who attend its functions. The key is not what we do in our religious activities, but is instead of who we believe, follow, and worship. We can worship ourselves, many gods, no gods, images, golden calves, God Almighty, etc. Truth dictates that we will be judged by who we determine is god. That is why Jesus stated that the great commandment of all commandments is, "Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind." For to do this will bring us true life.

Things that are proven thru science are accepted as universal truths. Things that you believe are truth because of where your beliefs lie, are not truthful to everyone, and therefor can't be accepted as a universal truth, except to those who's belief falls in line with yours.

Many scientists disagree with other scientists observations of scientific "experiments". Facts of Truth are not dictated by science, or even proved by science. True Science is just the observation of things that are. What many in today's society fail to acknowledge, is that all scientific observations that we as humans can perform today are observations that are only viewed by the physical senses given to us. Those who are not Spirit born cannot observe those things in the spiritual realm. Jesus was plain to teach this in John 3:

Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. John 3:3

The natural man cannot receive the things of the spiritual world, because he is only birthed in the flesh. Those that are birthed in the flesh and the Spirit can observe matters contained in both realms.

11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. 12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. 13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. 14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. 15 But he that is spiritual judgeth F6 all things, yet he himself is judged of no man. 16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ. 1 Corinthians 2:11-16

Where is Mr Fanilli? No one argues science better than him....

Many have a great faith in Science, but my faith lies in the only begotten son of God, Jesus Christ. True science does not observe the truth of God's creation falsely.

[Loupey]

This has been a most interesting read. And I especially thank those who responded to my questions. I learned a lot, I truly did.

Here's what I learned from it:

1) I'm definitely not a Christian (but I suspected that from the beginning )
2) I do not wish to be (not for me, no thanks)
3) Because I'm not #1, I'm a satanist (wait till the wife finds out)


Therefore, some of you many be surprised to learn that, for the last 2 and 1/2 years, you have been taking photographic advice and tips from no less than Satan himself. Hope it had been helpful.

I've learned all I need to learn. Now off to give the dear wife the bad news.

[Solo]

Can one be a true Christian without having been born again, born of God, born of the Spirit; thus having God the Spirit dwelling within them?

Are there those who believe themselves to be true Christians but are not?

[christiansoldier]

This has been a most interesting read. And I especially thank those who responded to my questions. I learned a lot, I truly did.

Here's what I learned from it:

1) I'm definitely not a Christian (but I suspected that from the beginning )
2) I do not wish to be (not for me, no thanks)
3) Because I'm not #1, I'm a satanist (wait till the wife finds out)

A false premise always leads to a false conclusion. However, having made your statement, I would kindly ask you to show us the portion of this thread from which you learned that because you are not a Christian (follower of Christ) that you are, therefore, a satanist.

If you profess to be a satanist, I will most certainly take you at your word. Whom you choose to follow is entirely up to you.

Or, perhaps, what you mean is that Satan, the author of confusion, has befuddled you to the point that you do not know how to proceed?

Regardless, I ask, please to show us fair testimony to your witness quoted above.

Thanks.

[christiansoldier]

Can one be a true Christian without having been born again, born of God, born of the Spirit; thus having God the Spirit dwelling within them?

Are there those who believe themselves to be true Christians but are not?

John does a good job of addressing this:

1 John 1:

5This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.

6If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:

7But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

8If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

9If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

10If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

[christiansoldier]

1 John 2:

3And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.

4He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

5But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.

6He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

7Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which ye have heard from the beginning.

8Again, a new commandment I write unto you, which thing is true in him and in you: because the darkness is past, and the true light now shineth.

9He that saith he is in the light, and hateth his brother, is in darkness even until now.

10He that loveth his brother abideth in the light, and there is none occasion of stumbling in him.

11But he that hateth his brother is in darkness, and walketh in darkness, and knoweth not whither he goeth, because that darkness hath blinded his eyes.

12I write unto you, little children, because your sins are forgiven you for his name's sake.

13I write unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I write unto you, young men, because ye have overcome the wicked one. I write unto you, little children, because ye have known the Father.

14I have written unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I have written unto you, young men, because ye are strong, and the word of God abideth in you, and ye have overcome the wicked one.

15Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.

16For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

17And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.

18Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

19They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

[christiansoldier]

1 John 3:

16Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.

17But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?

18My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.

19And hereby we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before him.

20For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things.

21Beloved, if our heart condemn us not, then have we confidence toward God.

22And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.

23And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

24And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

[Anbesol]

This has been a most interesting read. And I especially thank those who responded to my questions. I learned a lot, I truly did.

Here's what I learned from it:

1) I'm definitely not a Christian (but I suspected that from the beginning )
2) I do not wish to be (not for me, no thanks)
3) Because I'm not #1, I'm a satanist (wait till the wife finds out)


Therefore, some of you many be surprised to learn that, for the last 2 and 1/2 years, you have been taking photographic advice and tips from no less than Satan himself. Hope it had been helpful.

I've learned all I need to learn. Now off to give the dear wife the bad news.

Exactly, there is no mystery in the cosmos, all is quite simple and convenient.

[Skyman]

I am curious as to how people view other branches of the Christian Tradition.

I am Roman Catholic, and part of the Catholic teaching is that Jesus gave his apostles the authority to act on his behalf after he left. He specifically extended that to St Peter. There has been a line of succession to the Authority of Peter. Today the leader of Christendom is Pope Benedict, only those who follow Pope Benedict as Gods earthly representative are truly Christian.

There is also a Catholic ritual that is central to their beliefs where a ritualized version of the last supper is re - enacted. Catholics believe that each time an ordained priest practices this ritual by miracle the bread and wine of the alter become (not just represent but genuine transubstantiation) The body and blood of Christ. Some Christian groups have a similar practice, but the Catholics hold that only the Authority of the Direct line from Peter has the power to enable such a miracle. Each time a person partakes of this communion, they re enter the power of the resurrection and free themselves from sin. Without this they could not claim to be followers of Christ. Attending Mass or church without this sacrament is to a Catholic not attending church at all. In fact many feel that what Passes for Church in many religious organizations is nothing more than a rock concert and a scripture lecture.

Following this train of thought, the path to salvation cannot lead through any other means than that of Roman Catholic Orthodoxy.

The point is that we can haggle theology until we are blue in the face, but I hope there will come a time when we can move on.

Personally I feel that the reason people here are getting a little shirty is that they feel they are not being allowed to hold a difference of opinion. I understand that many Christian Traditions feel it is an important part of being a Christian to spread the good news and with this never to give up until all believe. However spreading the news is different to hitting people over the head with it.

[Skyman]

Oh and for the record the Catholic Church officially recognizes the magesterium of several non Catholic churches to the point where their religious are interchangeable and ecclesiastical rank is recognized. It is also in active dialogue with most of the Christian traditions and many non Christian traditions. It understands that this is what Jesus would have done. Who is to say who is the lepper, the samaritan, the tax collector, the prostitute of today?

[christiansoldier]

Hey Skyman

I don't know if you expected an actual answer regarding the Catholic Church, but, my view is that they teach Salvation through the atoning blood of Christ, and have no problem accepting that Catholics or anyone who comes to Christ with contrite and repentant hearts is a brother or sister in Christ.

I do think the CC adds a whole lot of unnecessary bells and whistles...

God's Word has many an example of the believer relating directly to the Son and through the Son to the Father.

[jetrim]

I understand that many Christian Traditions feel it is an important part of being a Christian to spread the good news and with this never to give up until all believe. However spreading the news is different to hitting people over the head with it.

Bingo! Our job as Christians is to "lead the horse to water" and NOT to hold his head under until he drinks or drowns. Taking the light from under the bushel basket is more a metphor for leading by example, than instructions to race around the globe trying to convert everyone you meet. This is where I have some real difficulties with many proestant and non-denominational sects, they spend so much time trying to jam "the good word" down other peoples throats, they barely have any time to listen when God speaks to them.

Also raised Roman Catholic, I was taught early on that the holy trinity is one in the same - Father, Son, & Holy Spirit make up the holy trinity, so what's all this talk from other "Cristian" sects about talking to God being OFF LIMITS? You cannot possibly speak to Jesus without speaking to the Father and Holy Spirit, nor can you speak to God the Father without speaking to the others, so why is Jesus treated like some sort of middle management shift supervisor at the customer relations counter in Heaven?

[adina]

Again, all your responses are based on the fact that you believe there is one god, and the bible is his word.

If you do not believe that, then your arguements hold no more water than the guy down the street who claims he was abducted and probed by aliens.

To you, any arguement other than your own is false and lies, because you strongly believe what you believe. To someone who believes differently, thier arguement is going to true, and yours is false and lies. It is a matter of personal belief, which is why it is subjective, therefor not an absolute truth, except to those who believe that.

And as far as whether I care why you feel the need to enlighten us, I don't. To me, you are another name on the internet, which is why I can discuss this calmly. Your opinion doesn't influence my life in the least, so it doesn't make me angry or upset to hear you say that you are right and everyone else is wrong.

And, if we are going for the sake of arguement, let's take it this way. Suppose you are wrong, and someone else is right. Then what?

You can't start a discussion, and ask someone to believe "for the sake of arguement" and not be willing to do the same.

I am willing to accept that you believe that there is one god, and thru him you will be saved. I'm happy for anyone who has found something they can believe in that helps to make them a better person. However, I stand by the fact that religous beliefs are a personal choice, and therefor there is no absolute truth, only the truth as you see it.

As far as whether or not we are awake and paying attention, we are. To our beliefs, which everyone is happy to discuss. However, this thread is leaning less towards discussing, and more towards telling.

[jetrim]

Again, all your responses are based on the fact that you believe there is one god, and the bible is his word.

If you do not believe that, then your arguements hold no more water than the guy down the street who claims he was abducted and probed by aliens.

Matter of fact, the 19 Arabians who skyjacked 4 airplanes 7 years ago believed in their hearts that they were doing "GOD'S WORK" every bit as much as the bible quoters in this thread do right now. (This does not mean I am drawing any asssociations between the two groups other than the fact that they both have very strong conviction that their choice is the right choice, and everyone else who doesn't see it the same way is damned.)

[christiansoldier]

Bingo! Our job as Christians is to "lead the horse to water" and NOT to hold his head under until he drinks or drowns. Taking the light from under the bushel basket is more a metphor for leading by example, than instructions to race around the globe trying to convert everyone you meet. This is where I have some real difficulties with many proestant and non-denominational sects, they spend so much time trying to jam "the good word" down other peoples throats, they barely have any time to listen when God speaks to them.

Also raised Roman Catholic, I was taught early on that the holy trinity is one in the same - Father, Son, & Holy Spirit make up the holy trinity, so what's all this talk from other "Cristian" sects about talking to God being OFF LIMITS? You cannot possibly speak to Jesus without speaking to the Father and Holy Spirit, nor can you speak to God the Father without speaking to the others, so why is Jesus treated like some sort of middle management shift supervisor at the customer relations counter in Heaven?

Jesus gives us a model prayer which directly addresses the Father. Were you responding to my post? Sorry if I was unclear. My point was, we need no priests as intercessor.

[christiansoldier]

Adina - the OP is "What is a Christian" not "What is a Wiccan", hence the discussion is properly based around Christian beliefs, which are Bible based.

Surely that is not so difficult to understand.

Now, here is a question for all who actually profess to be a follower of Christ:

Jesus asked Peter 3 times if he loved him. Do you know Peter's answers? Do you know Jesus' replies? What are your thoughts.