Are there any honest people left?

[EOSThree]

I did a really stupid thing while in Yellowstone last week. I set my tripod (Gitzo 1410/RSS BH-55, worth approx $1K) on the side of my trailer, then drove off without it. Stupid, stupid, stupid, on my part. I didn't realize I was missing it until I was 70 miles down the road. I immediately (45mph speed limit, so it wasn't immediately exactly) drove back to where I lost it, of course, it was gone.

I filed the necessary paperwork and made the necessary calls, then I went to Jackson and purchased another tripod to get me through. I never really thought I'd need a "backup" tripod. But my stupidity and someones thievery made it necessary.

Now it's been over a week since I lost it, and with the park virtually closed down, and no one having turned in a tripod, I am guessing it's been stolen. The fact that someone would just take and keep the tripod they found lying by the parking area just floors me. That angers me more than any other part of this fiasco. I was more worried that I had damaged the tripod or the head (ran over it with the trailer) than I was worried about someone stealing it.

I know what I would have done if I would have found such a rig lying around, I would have gone out of my way to make sure it was returned the the person who owned it. I can't even understand that type of thinking, it just doesn't compute.

[JoshD]

My guess is it was a tourist, not a "photographer" who took the tripod. They probably saw something that looked cool and they could mount their $100 P&S too, and took it. A serious photographer would have noticed it was a quality tripod, realized it was obviously left there on accident and probably turned it in to park headquarters.

Either way it doesn't bring it back. I am sorry man, what a bummer

[Dylan8i]

That sucks. If i was still out there I'd keep me ear to the ground to see if i heard anything.

Unfortunately it doesn't surprise me at all for something like a tripod on the side of the road. it did amaze me how lax some people were out there about security.... some people would leave the key to their car, not just in the unlocked car, but in the ignition for the entire day at work.

[daq7]

Hmm. Not sure I agree. While in general, I think returning it to a lost and found is the thing to do, I would not think a lot less of someone who just kept it. Was your name on it? I think there is a huge difference between "finding and keeping" and stealing.

That having been said. Sorry you lost it. I walked off and left a tripod once in a park in Japan. I went back an hour later and it was still there. That's Japan for you...

[CaraRose]

Hmm. Not sure I agree. While in general, I think returning it to a lost and found is the thing to do, I would not think a lot less of someone who just kept it. Was your name on it? I think there is a huge difference between "finding and keeping" and stealing.

I disagree a bit, finding and keeping something that you know likely belongs to someone is still theft.

That said, they could have a) Not known the value of the item and just figured it was abandoned. This is especially true if it was knocked/run over on the side of the road. b) Not known where to turn it in-- this is a big possibility. You pick it up with the intent of turning it in somewhere, but no one can tell you where to go to do so, so you give up and don't bother. c) Not given a damn one way or the other

Sorry for your loss though, that sucks

[EOSThree]

Hmm. Not sure I agree. While in general, I think returning it to a lost and found is the thing to do, I would not think a lot less of someone who just kept it. Was your name on it? I think there is a huge difference between "finding and keeping" and stealing.

That having been said. Sorry you lost it. I walked off and left a tripod once in a park in Japan. I went back an hour later and it was still there. That's Japan for you...

I completely disagree, the person who kept it is nothing more than a thief. I think absolutely nothing of them, less than nothing. They did not earn it, it's not theirs, it was never theirs except by capitalizing on someone else's misfortune. What about a watch? A camera body? A wallet? A credit card number? A car with the keys in it? A wedding band? Your motorcycle with the keys? How about if they "found" it in your garage, your driveway, your yard? Where do you draw the line? Finders Keepers Losers Weepers? BS.

Thieves, nothing more, it's not theirs, I don't care if you found it, finding and keeping is stealing. Finding and turning in is the only right thing to do.

[EOSThree]

I disagree a bit, finding and keeping something that you know likely belongs to someone is still theft.

That said, they could have a) Not known the value of the item and just figured it was abandoned. This is especially true if it was knocked/run over on the side of the road. b) Not known where to turn it in-- this is a big possibility. You pick it up with the intent of turning it in somewhere, but no one can tell you where to go to do so, so you give up and don't bother. c) Not given a damn one way or the other

Sorry for your loss though, that sucks

There are Ranger stations all over the park. There is a kiosk at every entrance with uniformed Rangers manning them. There are plenty of places with authorities in them. Yes I doubt many would know that it was worth $$, but still it was not theirs and it wasn't any inconvenience to turn it in (you have to pass a kiosk leaving or entering the park). I was a dumb ass for losing it, but like I said my biggest fear was damage, not that someone would steal it.

[daq7]

If they found it in your garage? Get serious.

To me the ambiguity is created by the fact that the finder has no way of knowing for sure if you will get it back if they turn it in.

So what if I find it and just decide to leave it. Does that make you somehow a bad person?

I am not obligated to you in any way by the act of finding.

Returning it certainly might make me a better person, but not returning it does not make me a thief. Of course we obviously aren't going to agree about this, so I will just let it go...

[EOSThree]

If they found it in your garage? Get serious.

To me the ambiguity is created by the fact that the finder has no way of knowing for sure if you will get it back if they turn it in.

So what if I find it and just decide to leave it. Does that make you somehow a bad person?

I am not obligated to you in any way by the act of finding.

Returning it certainly might make me a better person, but not returning it does not make me a thief. Of course we obviously aren't going to agree about this, so I will just let it go...

Yeah but the garage door was open, apparently you didn't want what was in there or you would have protected it better. Since you didn't mention it, is something in the driveway fair game? the front yard? the back yard? how about a farmers field? copywrited material? a national park? restaurant booth? trailhead? open car? open pannier? your photograph on this site? In every one of those instances taking is stealing, plain and simple, if you don't want to be involved (and you don't have to be), then leave it alone. The Law would disagree with you, if you take something that is not yours, with no intention of returning it, you have stolen it. That would stand up for any kind of property. If you "found" my tripod and I knew that you had found my tripod, you would be getting a visit from the police and they would be returning my stolen property to me.

Leaving it would have been fine, I would have picked it up about 2 hours later. Taking what is not yours is stealing, plain and simple. If you feel you are not obligated by the act of finding (and you're not), then leave it, because once you've taken it then you are obligated. If everyone would have felt not obligated, then no one would have stolen it, because they would have left it, and I would have picked it up.

Not being sure if I'm going to get it back is also fine, if I don't come for it, apparently I didn't want it, then, and only then, it is yours, that is the way lost and found works. Lost and founds always take the persons name who turned it in and will give it to the person if it is not claimed, haven't you watched the Brady Bunch?

[Loupey]

That really sucks, EOSThree.

Unfortunately, I'm not surprised. And because it was a Gitzo, anyone who knows anything about photography would probably have done the "right thing". So it was most likely a tourist who will either sell it at a garage sale for $25 or bang it around like it's some drugstore tripod.

As much as I try to see the good in people, things like this really tick me off.

[Greg McCary]

Sorry for your lose EOS, I agree returning it would have been the right thing to do. I left my EP-1 on a bench in a very crowded water park and went back a few minutes laters and it was still there. If it is a Bic lighter that is one thing something expesive is another. Chances are who ever found it hasn't a clue.

[Dylan8i]

the other thing to consider is it was left in the national park. someone may have even just looked at it as trash and cleaned it up... because its not suppose to be there.

and unless you check every single ranger station and entry station you can't say for sure they didn't turn it in. thats one thing i learned working there. there is not much communication between alot of the places, just because the park is so big and there are so many workers and places.

several times we (my roommates and myself) found lost items in the field (waterbottles, flash lights etc) that weren't returned, we simply packed them out of the field to clean the park up.... granted that's different than a tripod on the side of the road, but could be in the same mindset.

[Greg McCary]

I picked up some very nice head flash lights, on an overlook, at a State Lodge recently and hung them up so the owners could clearly see them if they came back. Maybe in hind site I should have taken them to the lodge.

[n8]

Bummer about your tripod certainly, and hopefully lesson learned.
I consider myself to be a moral person, and understand your anger about your stuff going missing, however if I were in the same position, I would primarily be upset with myself, not for whoever found it. I do feel that the majority of the population lacks the moral fiber to turn in lost items, but I wouldn't consider them thieves. To me a thief is someone that knowingly takes the possessions of another, and usually has to violate the physical boundaries or trust of that person to do so. Not the case here.

[EOSThree]

the other thing to consider is it was left in the national park. someone may have even just looked at it as trash and cleaned it up... because its not suppose to be there.

and unless you check every single ranger station and entry station you can't say for sure they didn't turn it in. thats one thing i learned working there. there is not much communication between alot of the places, just because the park is so big and there are so many workers and places.

several times we (my roommates and myself) found lost items in the field (waterbottles, flash lights etc) that weren't returned, we simply packed them out of the field to clean the park up.... granted that's different than a tripod on the side of the road, but could be in the same mindset.

Yellowstone actually has a system to track lost and found. You fill out a report and then the report is distributed to all of the Ranger Stations. If the object is at one of the stations it is reported as being found and it's sent to the rightful owner. The Rangers, who have been really helpful say there is all kinds of stuff turned in constantly, trivial stuff, camera straps, CF cards, water bottles, etc. It's been 10 days and nothing has been turned in. The park is now virtually closed, just the north entrance is open, with the road from Mammoth to Cooke City being the only road open. The park has shrunk quite a bit this week.

[daq7]

If you are trying to provoke me, whatever. It is not my job to help you police your stuff. If I lose something I blame myself. I rarely seek to vilify others for my weakness. Beyond that I don't really give a ****...

If someone targets me for damage that is different.

[EOSThree]

Bummer about your tripod certainly, and hopefully lesson learned.
I consider myself to be a moral person, and understand your anger about your stuff going missing, however if I were in the same position, I would primarily be upset with myself, not for whoever found it. I do feel that the majority of the population lacks the moral fiber to turn in lost items, but I wouldn't consider them thieves. To me a thief is someone that knowingly takes the possessions of another, and usually has to violate the physical boundaries or trust of that person to do so. Not the case here.

If you take my $hit, you've violated a human trust, my trust in you as another human being. The person who's taken my stuff did knowingly take the possessions of another, it certainly wasn't theirs. I am upset with myself, but I would say, and hope the majority of the population has the moral fiber to turn in lost items, I think most are basically honest, and will do the right thing.

If they aren't going to be bothered to turn the item in, then the right thing is to leave the item be. I'll say it again: If it's not yours, that's it, it's not yours. Do the right thing if you choose to get involved, turn it in, or leave it be, it's not yours. If you take it you are a thief, you've taken property that isn't yours. It doesn't matter what it is or where it is, this is not gray, it's black and white. IF YOU TAKE SOMETHING THAT ISN'T YOURS, YOU'VE STOLEN IT.

[EOSThree]

If you are trying to provoke me, whatever. It is not my job to help you police your stuff. If I lose something I blame myself. I rarely seek to vilify others for my weakness. Beyond that I don't really give a ****...

If someone targets me for damage that is different.

I am just as upset or more upset with myself as I am with the thief. That still doesn't excuse the person who took it. I am not trying to provoke you, I have no need to do that. I am trying to figure out the twisted view you have on this. I have vilified no one, I am calling a spade a spade and trying to figure out how anyone could defend the actions of the thief. The person who has my tripod took something that wasn't theirs, they stole it. The fact that I left it is immaterial, it doesn't belong to that person, it belongs to me. I just happened to make their chicken $h!t behavior easier, by leaving it. I'd feel better about it if they'd held a gun to me and demanded it, at least then they'd have faced me like a man.

[Greg McCary]

If it had been a $1000.00 bag of money that had fallen out of a Wells Fargo truck, just sayin'. Wells Fargo would be pressing charges on you if you tried to spend their money. Enough said.

[Grandpaw]

I don't know if it would have made a difference in the outcome , but I have placed one of those return address labels that has my name and address on things like that with the hope it would improve my odds of getting things like this back if left somewhere. I get these things in the mail for free all the time and think this is one way I can put them to good use. In my mind if the person has some idea who the item belongs to when they find it , it would greatly increase the odds of getting it back, Jeff

[Liz]

Jeff,

I did a similar thing and it worked for me. I had placed my business card in my camera bag. One morning while in NYC I got into a cab and noticed that there was a gentleman standing on the curb that must have been in front of me. I hadn't seen him and did not mean to run ahead of him. So..........I quickly jumped out of the cab - ran about 5 feet to tell him he could take my cab, turned around and the cab had taken off - with my Canon dslr, lens - and business card.

Needless to say I had not gotten the cab number. The cab company can't do anything without this info. So I walked to the nearest police station to report what I had done - and the missing camera. I had to wait 1/2 hour to speak to someone.

In the meantime, I tried to keep busy so I checked my home voicemails. There was a message for me to call a pleasant sounding lady. When I called she told me she found my camera in the back of the cab, found my card, and kept the camera because she was afraid I wouldn't get it back if she didn't follow up!

I took another cab to her house to pick up the camera - and she would not take a "reward" for her honesty and kindness!

So.....there are honest and good people out there! What a wonderful person she was - and I said a very special prayer for her that day!

Liz

[Frog]

Respect for personal property has become very lacking in this society.
I belong to a local fishing forum and two people in the last week have lost boat,motor,trailer right out of their yard. Everyone in that forum is keeping an eye out by not only watching for the items but even checking craig's list to see if they get listed.
Also there are several posts by people that have found valuable fishing gear and by letting others know on the forum, have been able to locate the owners.
One was a handmade lamiglass salmon pole. Made by a mans son. He lost it in the river 3 years ago and had given up on it. The guy that found it was able to locate him because his name was on the rod and the man was more than happy and now they are good fishing buddies.
Returning stuff that ain't yours is the only right thing to do.
I have to admit that I haven't tried to find the owner of a Cabella's insulated mug,. that I found by a river.

Daq, I doubt your bike is attended constantly while you are out and about so I guess if someone finds it by the road it will be ok for them to take it?

[mjs1973]

Yes, there are a still some honest people around.

A couple of years ago I was in Grand Teton NP in an area that gets a lot of traffic. I found a video iPod sitting on the ground next to a half empty bottle of soda. I looked around to see if there was anyone looking for anything on the ground. There were still a few people around but nobody near where I was so I picked up the iPod, dumped out the soda and continued to photograph. When I was done, I went back to my truck with the iPod and the empty bottle. I started going through the iPod to see if there was anything in it that would identify the owner. There wasn't. By now everyone had left the area and I was the only one still there, so I just sat there in my truck for a while to see if anyone returned. Nobody did, so I continued to drive around the park. After about 15-20 minutes I decided to go back to the same spot and just sit and wait for a while. Eventually a car pulled up and two kids jumped out of the back seat and ran down the hill to where I had found the iPod. The dad also got out of the car so I asked him if he was looking for something. He told me they lost an iPod so I gave it back to him and told him to enjoy the rest of his trip. Funny, he didn't mention the soda. What if it was just the soda, and no iPod, should I have put in the same amount of effort to find the owner?

I think we have to keep in mind the perceived value of the found object to the person who found it. I was pretty sure nobody was going to come back looking for a half bottle of soda or be too upset to learn that I dumped it out. I perceived that bottle of soda to be worth next to nothing even though it belonged to someone else. The iPod on the other hand I knew had a value, both to me, and the person who lost it.

If whoever picked up your tripod perceived it to not be worth much, then maybe it wasn't worth the hassle to try to locate the person who left it behind. Whether that is right or wrong is for them to decide. If they weren't a photographer, they may not know the difference between your expensive tripod, and the $30 one they picked up at Walmart. Is $30 worth the effort for them to drive to a ranger station and fill out paper work or to sit around and wait for a couple hours for someone to return looking for it? Again, that's something only they can decide.

Another example. I was walking my dogs today and I found a ball point pen on the trail. How much time and effort should I have put into finding the owner of the pen?

I'm sorry you lost your tripod and I hope it was insured. I'm sure if the right person would have found your tripod, you would have gotten it back, and who knows, you still might.

[albot976]

Daq, I doubt your bike is attended constantly while you are out and about so I guess if someone finds it by the road it will be ok for them to take it?

I don't think that's what Daq is saying. He's suggesting that if he was careless enough to leave it unlocked and unattended by the road, then he would personally blame himself just as much as the person who took it, regardless of what moral or legal duty the finder may have.

Most of the discussion here, however, is based on the subjective moral and objective legal duties of the finder. EOSThree's situation appears to be a case of mislaid property - not lost or abandoned in the legal sense, but mislaid. Generally speaking and depending on the jurisdiction, the finder of the mislaid property has a legal obligation to turn in whatever was found to the owner of the property the item was found on. EOSThree's legal right to the property is still, at that point, superior to the finder's.

In this case, tripod should have been given to a ranger or something to that effect. After a reasonable, and somewhat arbitrary, amount of time, the tripod if unclaimed would be given to the finder.

To what extent, however, people should be legally and morally protected from their own carelessness is clearly up for debate. As a finder, I would have turned it in. As the loser, I would have been disappointed - but like Daq points out, not surprised.

[JETA]

Aw, I feel for you.

I left my strobe and think tank case on a secured field. The only people there were people I knew.... It never showed up.

I guess the thing that's bothersome is you have a great set of standards and it's unfortunate when others don't. Personally, I'd go out of my way to return ANYTHING I thought might mean something to someone. That's the type of person I am. Don't worry about those who aren't like that. They are the minority. Hang in there. (())