so many views...so little replies

[stuntboy]

ive noticed a trend here just like most forums i guess...why do alot of people just look and add no comment/replies..?? i always thought a forum was to get answers and help others solve problems. just woundering...

todd

[almo]

Yeah, I guess that is the way with board life. It seems to come and go in waves here. Just keep it up, you will see an improvment.

[mattp]

Todd - welcome to the internet :-)

Over the last few months I've got really into looking at photographs on the web, both here and on various photoblogs. I've also read a lot of the things that photobloggers have written about their experiences posting pictures on the internet, and some of their pet grievances strike a note. One thing you might enjoy reading is the article here. It makes some interesting points about photo criticism in general.

I think you have to accept with any sort of creative endeavour that it won't appeal to everyone. In fact personally I would be a little worried about something that does have universal appeal - leave that to Coca-Cola and Big Macs. The sad thing is though that if you produce work that doesn't appeal to a particular group, they are unlikely to comment on it.

By way of example - I can't stand Country and Western music (there, I've said it). If subjected to it I would rather gnaw my own ears off than have to stay in the same room as someone 'standing by their man'. With that in mind I am the least qualified person to offer any critical opinion of a new C&W track - I just couldn't do it, and if I tried my opinion would be worthless (even though I can be very vocal about music that I do like, and even though I realise that C&W has a huge following).

So, which tv shows get the biggest audiences, and have everyone talking about them the next day? Which films get the biggest box office? Are they necessarily the same ones that over the course of decades gradually rise from obscurity to become classics (at which point everyone insists that they loved it from the moment they first saw it, even though the viewing figures for the first airing showed it was watched by precisely 3 people and a cat).

I think that this holds true across the arts, and certainly with photography as much as anything else. Some photographs will always have mass appeal, and they may be the ones that prompt the most people to put 'Great shot' or something similar in the feedback column. Others will necessarily have limited appeal, and a lot of people won't really feel qualified to approach them, just as I can't with that dreaded C&W music. That's why I think that as well as taking on board the comments people leave, sometimes you also have to have the self confidence to say 'to hell with it' regardless of whether the response is negative, or just indifferent. I would put money on the fact that a photographer like Lee Friedlander, if he wasn't famous, could post individual images on a number of sites across the web, and he would get either no response or something along the lines of "Not a bad effort, but your framing is off, and it would be better if you hadn't got your shadow in the shot".

The other thing that stops people posting - or stops me posting sometimes, is that I don't always feel like adding "great shot" if I can't explain why I like it in any more detail, or in a way which the photographer may find helpful. I can certainly say that this is true of many of the shots that you have posted here, I think you have a very refreshing style, and a natural eye for this photography lark. If your technical skill are off in any way I would be the last person to tell you, because I have none of my own - I just like your eye. So if I haven't told you I didn't like a particular shot, it doesn't (necessarily) mean that I didn't!

If all that sounds negative, I will add that there is a core group of people on this site who are not only talented photographers themselves, but who also take the time and effort to comment on a large number of other people's shots. For those people, the above does not apply, they are the ones who make this site what it is. Unfortunately their numbers are not all that large, and statistically their contributions can look small against the much larger number of people who look, but don't touch.

matt

[stuntboy]

mattp so true what you said but i wasnt only talking about the critique section and i wasnt only talking about my posts , i was commenting on the whole site in general. its like look dont touch should apply here. oh well so true its the internet and it is what it is. thanks

todd

[Trevor Ash]

ive noticed a trend here just like most forums i guess...why do alot of people just look and add no comment/replies..?? i always thought a forum was to get answers and help others solve problems. just woundering...

todd

99.9% = Get Answers
0.1% = Provide Answers

That's the way of the internet.

[mjs1973]

I think Matt made some very good points. This isn't the first time this subject has come up either. A good example is the galleries. I have some images there that have been looked at 300+ times, without a single comment. It is a little frustraiting, but I'm not surprised. I have become more of a lurker than a poster as of late, for some of the reasons that Matt has mentioned, but mostly because of a reason that Matt didn't mention. Time. As the weather gets nicer, I find that I have a lot less time for sitting in front of the computer, and posting comments. It can take a lot of time to go thru. It has been 6 hours since I visited this site, and there are 2 pages of new posts to go thru. It would take me a good hour to get thru all of them, and post inteligent, worth while comments for every new photo posted. I wish I had the time be more active on this site, as I feel that I haven't been doing my part, but sometimes life gets in the way.

[jar_e]

I'm not positive, but I believe everytime a user views it, even multiple times, it counts as a repeat view. Am I right?

[mattp]

I'm not sure that's right Jared, I've got the feeling that it logs 'unique' views, ie those from different computers, but I may be wrong.

[adina]

This came up before, I don't think it logs unique views. Like if I check a thread 10 times, it counts as 10 views. Some people post a relpy, then check back to see what's new on that thread. So the views add up.

My advice? Don't worry about it.

[Seb]

Stuntboy,

According to what I have observed over the months, the counting system always logs unique views (or membership....). I can come back to a picture 15 times at home on my computer (while being loged in) and it counts as one single view. I can even use a totally different computer (at work, a friend place....) log in on the board, look back at that same picture and it won't count as one more viewing. However, if I access the board while I am unloged, it will count as one more view.

Anyways, you shouldn't care too much about it as several people already mentioned. Popularity only means that something is... popular. It is strictly unrelated to quality/creativity. I am not saying that one necessarily goes against the other and I do think that getting some recognition is nice and essential. Nevertheless, I wouldn't pay too much attention at this aspect of things.

Seb

[another view]

Matt makes some excellent points. I may see the big popular TV show, but most of that stuff really isn't exciting to me. I don't care that a lot of the music I listen to rarely gets radio play, I listen to it because I like it. Sometimes people like my shots, sometimes nobody says anything about them (I think I know what this means!). That's how personal photo work goes.

I suppose I should know this - but I don't - about whether each view counts or it only tracks unique views. Post shots in viewfinder just to share them - critiques should be done in the critique forum. Sure, we all like people to comment on our photos, but maybe you look at them a few times before you comment on them (I'm usually in that group). And we have a lot of unregistered guests (aka "lurkers") out there too - check the bottom of the main forum page for the stats at any given time.

If you're a "lurker", go ahead, register and start posting. We won't bite!

[shesells]

Stutboy.. the majority of those numbers you see are from * guests...
I usually try to comment but there are times when I'm just major busy and just want to see what new pics there are. Sometimes I will get a chance to come back and comment later but sometimes I don't get back till days later ( or months ) and a new batch is out. It seems redundant to drag up the old ones. I use to feel sorry for newbies who would go for days with 0 comments so I tried to make sure they all got one... that can be quite a job, so just let nature do its thing. I always figure if i dont get comments.. my pic sucks.. lol which i need to know! lol

Kit

[berrywise]

I'm such a negative person I find it hard to respond kindly so I usually don't Half the time I just don't have much to say but I always feed off all the knowledge that is out there and try to read a lot and suck it in. Sometimes I'll find myself typing a response and then realize I didn't add anything relevant and delete it. Go figure.

[opus]

Here's a good exercise. At any given time of day, go to "who's online" (you'll find it in the "forum jump" pulldown, below).

You will see that usually there are between three and ten named members online, looking around.

And there will be approximately fifty or so "guests" (who can't post) and Google and Jeeves "spiders", who are looking and indexing all posts for search engines. Each one of their "hits" counts as a view.

I often post here at 2 am. Within a half hour of posting, I usually have a half dozen "views", even though there's "nobody online".

So the spiders come crawling through to index posts, and the "guests" have probably googled one of the words in your post and are just casually passing through.

I've learned not to even look at the number of views anymore. They mean nothing.

[Photo-John]

Todd-
The reality of Internet forums and galleries is that most people only look. It's usually 10% or less of the people using a site that do most of the posting. So don't be discouraged or annoyed. It's just the way people are. Some people like to mingle and participate and other people just look, read, and stay quiet. I know a lot of people who use this site regularly but have no interest in posting. It used to bother me. But now I accept that they're either private people, or they just don't have the same need for interaction.

That said, it would still be nice to have more activity. The best way to get that is to spread the word about the forums and galleries. The more people know about them, the more action there will be. So tell your friends and other photographers about the site. Send out links to your personal gallery and good discussions. There are tons of people who don't know about PCPhotoREVIEW.com and PhtoographyREVIEW.com yet. If everyone helps, we can get a lot more action on the forums and galleries.

[Dzerzhinski46]

Dear Todd,

Like most people have said already, many views are a fact of internet life. Anymore I just completly ignore the number of views on a post.

Here is a fact to consider. PR.com has some 7,500 members. Compare those numbers to how many actually post. And I don't just mean the people who post a few times and then disappear, but the people who actually post consistantly. Like Photo John said, it is about 10% when you get down to it.

A small story to illustrait. I was invited to join a private photo forum (I won't name names). The concept was a good one. A very small collection of members who posted consistantly. A short while later (a week or two), I decided to discontinue my membership. Why? It certainly wasn't because of any lack of attention or anything like that. I just happened to like the atmosphere of PR.com better. All this is to say, that more exclusive does not necessarily mean better. You have to put up with the annoying aspects of PR.com in order to enjoy it. As with any photo forum.

PR.com is a great place to learn and enjoy photography. Just learn to ignore what needs to be ignored, and you will probably be fine. There are numbers of great photogs on this site, and it is well worth wading through the muck to get their opinion. Just stick with it.

Drew

[berrywise]

Todd-
The reality of Internet forums and galleries is that most people only look. It's usually 10% or less of the people using a site that do most of the posting. So don't be discouraged or annoyed. It's just the way people are. Some people like to mingle and participate and other people just look, read, and stay quiet. I know a lot of people who use this site regularly but have no interest in posting. It used to bother me. But now I accept that they're either private people, or they just don't have the same need for interaction.

That said, it would still be nice to have more activity. The best way to get that is to spread the word about the forums and galleries. The more people know about them, the more action there will be. So tell your friends and other photographers about the site. Send out links to your personal gallery and good discussions. There are tons of people who don't know about PCPhotoREVIEW.com and PhtoographyREVIEW.com yet. If everyone helps, we can get a lot more action on the forums and galleries.

John,

What's the best method to buy stuff through B&H photo on this site? I have about a 2,500 dollar order I'm about to place and figure it might help the site out some to go through you guys. Do I just click one of the links on the side bar and order up?

[Photo-John]

John,

What's the best method to buy stuff through B&H photo on this site? I have about a 2,500 dollar order I'm about to place and figure it might help the site out some to go through you guys. Do I just click one of the links on the side bar and order up?

Go through the dealer links in the reviews. We make the most money when you do it that way. Just go look at whatever you're going to buy, in the reviews. And click on the B&H links below the product info, on the review page. If you go to a review page and it's missing a B&H link, please let me know.

And thanks for asking, bw!

[Photo-John]

There are about 7500 registered users on the site. But in April, PCPhotoREVIEW.com logged 245,538 unique visitors, and PhotographyREVIEW.com logged 196,854 unique visitors. So there are a lot more people using the site than just those 7500 registered members. The newsletter goes out to over 20,000, if I remember right. Tons of people are looking. Most of them just don't take the time to register and post anything.

[another view]

And thanks for asking, bw!

Yeah, it's a good thing to remember - it doesn't cost the buyer anything but the site gets some money for it. People learn about the equipment they buy here, so it's nice that they go thru the link so we get credit for it. And the moderators haven't had a raise in - I don't know how long! (no, we're not paid!).

A while back I went to the members list to find someone I wanted to send a PM to. I noticed there just how many people were registered that had never posted. It was a pretty big number but people do have to register to do a review whether or not they even spend any time here on the boards.

[Photo-John]

They have to register if they want to use the gallery, too. Registration is a good thing, here. You don't really have to give anything up, and it allows you to share and participate in a bunch of ways. One of the coolest benefits is registration gives you 50 MB of free photo storage on the gallery.

[walterick]

I'm glad you guys asked this.

I had a hard time getting to a dealer's web page by going through the "dealers" section of this site. I would end up with a list of products, but not their web page. I wanted to go through PR.com to give them the credit, but found it hard to get to B&H's main page, for instance. Maybe I'll try going through the reviews next time. But usually I am ordering supplies, not lenses et al. Though I suppose I could go through a particualr film review.

John, is there an easier way to get to a dealer's web page while still giving PR their credit?

Rick

[Photo-John]

I had a hard time getting to a dealer's web page by going through the "dealers" section of this site.

What do you mean by the "dealers" section? Is that the "Merchant Stores" page? Those pages will only list products for which we have reviews and one-to-one links (directly to the product on the merchant site) for with that dealer.

John, is there an easier way to get to a dealer's web page while still giving PR their credit?

You can actually just go through the dealer link on any review page. It should take you to the same product you were looking at on the review page. From there you can go to the B&H Home page or whatever section of the dealer site you need. And we'll get the credit.

I really appreciate you guys asking about this stuff. If you have any suggestions on how to better help you buy stuff through the site, I'd like to hear them. Maybe we should start a new discussion, though.