off topic: The cruelty of people, I will never understand.

[Photo-John]

We may have been bred by aliens, you're right Michael. There's more evidence suggesting that than not

I love you, you goddamn hippie freak! I can't believe they haven't sent you back to Berkeley yet.

[another view]

Hee hee... But John gets a demerit!

[Lara]

I love you, you goddamn hippie freak! I can't believe they haven't sent you back to Berkeley yet.

Wiping tears from my eyes from laughing so hard. LOLOL

All I can say is people like Rick make up for the cruel people in this world Loren. Sorry to hear what happened to you at Christmas. Who ever these people are, I believe the addage, "what goes around, comes around."

[walterick]

"All I can say is people like Rick make up for the cruel people in this world Loren."

Aww, thanks hon. Now's probably not a good time to tell you I cheated on my shop test in the 9th grade.

I got an F anyway.

[walterick]

Let's chant together now!

oooooooooooooooooommmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...

Hippie by heart, scientist in my mind ;)

Rick
Maybe I was born on the wrong coast.

[racingpinarello]

Do not our kids run around hugging everything?

Happy?

Our natural state is love. Everything else is fear IMO

Rick

Having seen my niece and nephews grow up, I can personally attest that they are loving children until thought to be otherwise.

Hopefully my children will be as loving as they are.

I'm glad that this post brought out good dialogue and even with strong opinions, nobody was offended.

Loren

[racingpinarello]

Thanks Penny and I wish the best of luck and good wishes for you and Gene. Keep on the lookout for a California gathering, where Photo John and I will be setting something up.

It would be a pleasure to finally meet more of the people who are in California or wish to visit.

Cheers,
Loren

[yaronsh]

Been following this thread, but haven't had time to actually contribute till now.

Try to be mindful when using the term "evil." At least in a Christian context, it's a rather strong word, and (imho) not always warranted in describing a negative behavior (or one perceived as such).

Also, it would help to try to sort out - and I know this is hard - which of our perceptions are based on cultural conventions. Example: Someone mentioned teaching a kid to choose between copmlimenting another kid on their drawing of a cow vs. telling the other kid that it doesn't look like a cow. In some cultures/subcultures the former would be preferable, while in others the latter. I've lived in both types of societies.

A young kid who goes through her mother's makeup probably does not think of this as "bad" at the time of the act. She probably did not give much thought to consequences, as is natural at her age (so consequences need to be made crystal clear). She probably only realized it was a "mistake" when confronted by Mommy.

Personally, I believe we all have positive and negative within us - light and dark, the capacity for right and wrong, etc.; the key is to recognize and accept all parts of ourselves, and then try to strike a balance that hopefully puts us on the positive side of the equation and propels us foward on the side of good. Some need more external help than others to do this, and that's fine.

Not knowing right from wrong is not a normal human condition. We have a word for someone who doesn't know right from wrong: "Psychopath." Someone who knows right from wrong but consistantly chooses wrong for personal gain is a "sociopath."

In my religious background, it is believed that we all have a "good inclination" and a "bad inclination" (or at least that's the loose English translation). We need to recognize both, and learn to follow our "good inclination" more often than the "bad" one. Also, there is no concept of "sin" in the Christian sense. Rather, there is a Hebrew word that is usually translated as "transgression," but is really an archery term that means missing the target: We all strive to do good, but it happens that we miss the target. Confessionals are congregational - they are spoken collectively, and use "we" terms rather than "I" terms: We are all responsible for one another. My religious background is grounded in the notion of an all-encompassing "God"; there is no "Devil," but rather, there is the concept of a "satan" (note small s), which, in anthropomorphic terms, is an angel (not necessarily the same one every time) sent by God to test someone.

Hope this all makes sense.....

- Yaron