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  1. #26
    LRPS Alison's Avatar
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    Re: 2008 Camera Of The Year?

    Sorry John but I'm not voting. You can't compare a G10 with a 5D. That's just silly.

  2. #27
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    Re: 2008 Camera Of The Year?

    Experts thought that body stabilization will never work in a full frame sensor :blush2: .
    A900:thumbsup:

  3. #28
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    Re: 2008 Camera Of The Year?

    Quote Originally Posted by OldClicker
    I would think (with zero actual knowledge) that if you want video, you would get a video camera and do it right.

    Another point, to me, is that the DSLR and Video (at this level) are two different worlds. The DSLR mostly?/often? is for the sake of the picture - the photograph. Any video that I've seen that would be done on a DSLR/Video is for the sake of the subject. The video technique is terrible and irrelevant to the shooter. Is there a convergence happening on the snapshot level? Probably, but I would not think that would qualify for 'Camera of the Year' on a Photography forum.

    TF
    I totally agree with this statement.
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  4. #29
    Liz
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    Re: 2008 Camera Of The Year?

    Quote Originally Posted by Alison
    Sorry John but I'm not voting. You can't compare a G10 with a 5D. That's just silly.
    When I first saw the thread, that thought ran through my mind also, but after I thought about it, this isn't a comparison between cameras so to speak (my camera is better than yours). However, some of these "lesser/cheaper" cameras were breakthroughs in their specific category and therefore worthy of the "title" not for being compared to a $5,000 camera, but for the advance in the technology, features, and competitive pricing.

    The Panasonic G1 is probably a "winner" in it's own right. This camera will most likely be the catalyst for the other manufacturers to begin producing improved versions of the four-thirds system. Canon already has something coming down the pike.

    The Panasonic LX3 is a small and seemingly low-grade camera compared to the big guns and some might question why it would even be on the list. However, I have one and IMO it's probably the best p&s out there today. Quite a few reviews have stated that this camera should "encourage" other manufacturers to include some of the LX3 features such as the fast 2.0 lens, 24mm wide angle, in-camera b&w settings that probably produce some of the best b&w results from any digital camera without the need for pp conversion and an "Intelligent Auto" that actually chooses the best settings - and works.

    This is my interpretation - just my humble opinion.

    Liz

  5. #30
    Senior Member AgingEyes's Avatar
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    Re: 2008 Camera Of The Year?

    Quote Originally Posted by Liz
    When I first saw the thread, that thought ran through my mind also, but after I thought about it, this isn't a comparison between cameras so to speak. However, some of these "lesser/cheaper" cameras were breakthroughs in their specific category and therefore worthy of the "title" not being compared to a $5,000 camera, but for the advance in the technology, features, and competitive pricing.
    [snip]
    Ok. What about the Casio EXILIM Pro EX-F1? Full resolution photography up to 60fps, high speed video recording at up to 1200fps. Is that not a very special camera?

  6. #31
    drg
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    Re: 2008 Camera Of The Year?

    Quote Originally Posted by Frog
    D-700 but I think the d300 should be on there too.
    The D300 was released in 2007.
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  7. #32
    drg
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    Re: 2008 Camera Of The Year?

    A few additional thoughts on the topic.

    And a repeated disclaimer!

    I have not used the Canon EOS 5D-II so keep that in mind.

    Canon really stepped up the 5D-II with the sensor, its video and the performance of the Image Quality. They've even made the body a much tougher customer with water resistance that probably could stand up to some of the downpours I've subjected my EOS 1D cameras (1D, 1Ds, 1DsMKII at various times) to over the years.

    Comparing specs isn't always the only test!!

    Canon didn't really dramatically improve the older 9-point design of the AF in the 5D-II. They have tweaked it up a bunch with features like the individualized setting for up to twenty lenses and the other tricks associated with 'micro adjustment'. There are the invisible assist points (I don't know alot about the effectiveness of this yet) which probably add some wrinkles not yet thought of for the uses I might have for this camera. So maybe it is a lot better. But I didn't start using Canon FILM cameras for a second rate AF system. I want the whole ballgame of more AF points the better!

    Nikon delivers a super 50 some point AF system in the D3 and the D700. I suppose the D3x is just as good or better.

    The Nikon D700 has an intensely good metering system. Nikon (I have to say this so forgive me fellow Canonistas) has far superior flash control. They've worked out this whole issue finally to the point where I'm totally confident in their product again. I had serious issues starting with the film F5 and F6, and the early DSLR offerings from Nikon didn't suit me and that's one reason I went to Canon years ago. The Nikon D3 was their big winner. I like the D700 better!

    Video. It is coming like all those other things such as Face/Smile/Red Eye detection/correction. It has a rather specific but in the Nikon Implementation in D90 it has some rather severe limitations. I would like it to get that tossing of the wedding bouquet shot, casual quick video without scruffing around for another camera. The inclusion of video is a sign of things to come, but not a winner . . . yet.

    The FF/FX issue. Nikon lets you use your DX (roughly APS-C sized) sensor sized lenses. Canon doesn't let you use the EF-S lenses. Maybe or maybe not a big deal. Just an interesting thought for the customer. Both Manufacturers have great sensors that produce fine photographs.

    There are a huge number of things I'd like to compare these two cameras doing, but in the end I'm sure that it would come close to evening out. Nikon now having these two Full Frame cameras with:

    - both are built to mechanically phenomenal standards (the D700 slightly lower shutter rating aside, and being a Nikon I would expect from 25 years of using them to replace it anyway),

    - the D700 has some really usable bells and whistles,(the Contrast Detect in Live View is really cool once you figure out what it is doing)

    - Top notch AF (Phase and Contrast choices !!)

    - Usable trick metering (3D color matrix etc. )

    Being primarily a Canon user in the DSLR format, I still am going with the D700 as the winner. For Nikon it certainly is a game changer. Now can they keep it up in the face of the competition, or will they wait too long, again, to bring out the next camera?
    Last edited by drg; 01-01-2009 at 05:49 PM.
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  8. #33
    project forum co-moderator Frog's Avatar
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    Re: 2008 Camera Of The Year?

    Quote Originally Posted by Photo-John
    Why should the D300 be included?
    'Cuz its as high as I can dream right now.. Shouldn't price be considered too?
    Keep Shooting!

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  9. #34
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    Re: 2008 Camera Of The Year?

    Well, I've only had a chance to play with it, but my vote goes to the Pentax K20D. But from everything I've read about and seen on the Pentax forum, I think it compares admirably to all you have listed. So, I'll just have to staunchly hold out on my vote since the best camera wasn't listed!!!! :-)
    Ken


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  10. #35
    Panarus biarmicus Moderator (Sports) SmartWombat's Avatar
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    Re: 2008 Camera Of The Year?

    The G1 I think.
    Or the 5DmkII - for having usable HD video in a DSLR.
    Sorry, the Nikon doesn't quite have it.

    I want to try the G1 in anger, to see if it can do all I want.
    But part of me wants to wait for the next model which may have video as well.
    PAul

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  11. #36
    Liz
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    Re: 2008 Camera Of The Year?

    Quote Originally Posted by SmartWombat
    The G1 I think.
    Or the 5DmkII - for having usable HD video in a DSLR.
    Sorry, the Nikon doesn't quite have it.

    I want to try the G1 in anger, to see if it can do all I want.
    But part of me wants to wait for the next model which may have video as well.
    Paul,

    I too am tempted to "look" more closely at the G1; however, from what I've read it seems quite a few people/reviews are looking for the next model or upgrade. I am hoping that Panasonic will get some competition from other big gun manufacturers - like Canon, Nikon, etc. I would really like to get a smaller DSLR quality camera, but I don't think the G1 is there quite yet.

    Liz

  12. #37
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    Re: 2008 Camera Of The Year?

    Quote Originally Posted by A.M.D.A.
    Well, I haven't used any of the cameras mentioned here. But I thought I'd pitch in with my opinion, hope that's OK...

    I would say Sony Alpha A900. It is Sony's first real "top-of-the-line" full-frame sensor DSLR, and has one the highest megapixel counts in its class. Not to mention a rather impressive feature set which includes body image stabilization...

    Though the Lumix G1 might come in for 2nd place.
    These are my nominees too. Sony has really fired a warning shot with the A900, and it seems like it's well aimed and well executed.

    The panny G1 is probably the most excited I've been about a camera in a while, even though it isn't the camera that is perfect for me. The design is so straightforward that it invokes a "duh" moment when you realize what they have done. It may not have better resolution or high ISO performance than some of the tother cameras in the short list, but it's potentially FAR more important.

    The canon 5d mII is really just an upgrade on the original, and it isn't noteworthy for any significant reason. The D90 brought video to the table, so that might be a good third place contender. The other canikon offerings are insignificant - yeah, they're good cameras, but so what?
    Last edited by Sushigaijin; 01-02-2009 at 10:32 AM.
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  13. #38
    Captain of the Ship Photo-John's Avatar
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    Re: 2008 Camera Of The Year?

    Quote Originally Posted by AgingEyes
    Ok. What about the Casio EXILIM Pro EX-F1? Full resolution photography up to 60fps, high speed video recording at up to 1200fps. Is that not a very special camera?
    Yes, it is an interesting camera and I considered putting it on the list. But I decided it's too specialized and has limited appeal. But I do agree that it's a cool new camera. They're actually on the second generation now, too. The original came out in 2006.
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  14. #39
    Captain of the Ship Photo-John's Avatar
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    Panasonic G1?

    Wow - the Panasonic G1 has a solid lead right now. At the moment there are 159 votes and it has 25%. The next camera is the Nikon D90, with 17%. That surprises me - especially since the G1 was not a contender at the start of the poll. I'm going to wait and get more votes and the poll isn't my only consideration, anyway. But this discussion and the poll results are very, very interesting to me. This is a fun way to start the New Year!
    Photo-John

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  15. #40
    Senior Member draymorton's Avatar
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    Re: 2008 Camera Of The Year?

    I voted hastily and am living to regret it.

    My revised vote goes to the Nikon D3.

  16. #41
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    Re: 2008 Camera Of The Year?

    My vote is for the Nikon D90...Not because I bought one. In my opinion...Looking at the big picture...Nikon broke new ground.The D90 has set the world on fire, now DSLR's will never be the same.

    I almost voted for the BIG GUN...The 5DmkII with its video capture capability.It is stellar...undeniably so.

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Oh, b.t.w. I shoot video with an OLD Canon S1iS. It's not H.D. but.. It shoots 30 fps image stabilized video, 10x optical zoom.Pretty smooth video cam.

    Rick
    Last edited by starriderrick; 01-02-2009 at 08:18 PM.









  17. #42
    Captain of the Ship Photo-John's Avatar
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    Micro Four Thirds vs DSLR Video

    Based on the current poll results, it's come down to the new Micro Four Thirds format vs DSLR video. I'm surprised the Panasonic G1 has done so well in the poll. That's not something I expected. I am also surprised the Panasonic LX3 and Canon G10 have done so poorly. But that's why I ran the poll. I wanted to find out what the popular sentiment was. And it is making me think. I had made a pick in my mind. But now I'm having to think it through more carefully. Once again, for me, this has been one of the most interesting polls and threads on the site in quite some time.

    Thanks for your votes and comments! Spread the word about the poll and discussion. The more feedback and discussion the better!
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  18. #43
    News & Rum-or-ator opus's Avatar
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    Re: 2008 Camera Of The Year?

    I don't feel qualified to vote on anything I have no experience with and have not researched, so I feel my opinion holds little weight, as it simply reflects my own desires and experiences.

    However, I will vote for the 5D Mark II because:

    1) I have spent a few days researching it. I was originally looking at the 5D for myself, but I am now convinced to buy a 5D mkII. I don't need pro camera features for my income, but my current camera body is half a decade old and I want to upgrade to something I will be happy with for another half a decade. From my research, it provides everything I need, especially low-light sensitivity, which is the majority of my passion.

    2) I've got a theatre degree and have just directed a play. Along the journey of directing live theatre, the desire has grown strong in me that I want to try directing a film. I face the choice of either sticking with theatre, which I'm trained for, or going back to school for film, in order to learn the equipment and process. With the 5Dmkii, I'll have a serious tool for giving video a shot BEFORE committing to film school, using tools I'm:
    --already familiar with
    --already invested in
    --able to use even when not shooting video

    To me that's huge. To be able to carry around a FINE camera, that can do everything I want with quality, AS WELL AS allow me to experiment with video without investing in a separate piece of equipment. The big bonus is that I already know how to handle the camera, I have a tripod that fits, and lenses. The adapting process should be much easier.

    That's my vote, albeit too late.
    Last edited by opus; 01-04-2009 at 11:33 PM.
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  19. #44
    Captain of the Ship Photo-John's Avatar
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    Re: 2008 Camera Of The Year?

    Your vote isn't too late. The poll and this discussion amount to what I am calling the "popular vote." I'm still going to make my own final decision on what I consider "Camera Of The Year." And I have not made up my mind yet. The poll and everyone's arguments are very interesting and compelling to me. I'm glad you posted.

    I think you're making a very good decision about the 5D Mk II. There are people who think video in a DSLR is stupid. Initially, I was one of them. But after using the Nikon D90 and thinking about it more, I really like the idea of video in a DSLR. Sure, the photography purists may not like it. But a lot of us thought Live View was a dumb idea. I love Live View for studio work now. Give me a new tool and I'll probably figure out a good way to use it. And it really sounds like the new video feature is perfect for you. I hope you share some video with us after you get a chance to use it
    Photo-John

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  20. #45
    News & Rum-or-ator opus's Avatar
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    Re: 2008 Camera Of The Year?

    I hope I can get my hands on one! B&H won't even accept me onto the waiting list, it's so long.
    Drink Coffee. Do stupid things faster with more energy.


  21. #46
    Senior Member OldClicker's Avatar
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    Re: 2008 Camera Of The Year?

    Quote Originally Posted by Photo-John
    Your vote isn't too late. The poll and this discussion amount to what I am calling the "popular vote." I'm still going to make my own final decision on what I consider "Camera Of The Year." And I have not made up my mind yet. The poll and everyone's arguments are very interesting and compelling to me. I'm glad you posted.

    I think you're making a very good decision about the 5D Mk II. There are people who think video in a DSLR is stupid. Initially, I was one of them. But after using the Nikon D90 and thinking about it more, I really like the idea of video in a DSLR. Sure, the photography purists may not like it. But a lot of us thought Live View was a dumb idea. I love Live View for studio work now. Give me a new tool and I'll probably figure out a good way to use it. And it really sounds like the new video feature is perfect for you. I hope you share some video with us after you get a chance to use it
    What do you do with the video once you take it? I mean, who's going to watch it? - TF
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  22. #47
    News & Rum-or-ator opus's Avatar
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    Re: 2008 Camera Of The Year?

    for starters, my experiments go to my friends on facebook and youtube. My husband also wants me to record him playing guitar so he can make a "master class" video to post on the internet.

    Then maybe, if I get anything good, it will go in my portfolio for eventual submission to grad school.

    Vimeo is a great web service for video projects as well.
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  23. #48
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    Re: 2008 Camera Of The Year?

    Sony a900 - because just starting new company with lower end cameras then BAM the big show so fast.

    Nikon d700 - never used it but I've seen many shots with high iso and the clearity is amazing

    1dS Mark III simply the best camera in the world IMO :P

    And Nikon D90, the big step for DSLR's with Video mode!
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  24. #49
    Panarus biarmicus Moderator (Sports) SmartWombat's Avatar
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    Re: 2008 Camera Of The Year?

    What ?
    No recognition of the Canon 5DmkII for a better, higher resolution video mode, with microphone input for better sound ?
    PAul

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  25. #50
    can't Re-member lidarman's Avatar
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    Re: 2008 Camera Of The Year?

    It seems to me the category is important, not just "best camera". Otherwise all the DSLRs are going to be at the top.

    Maybe I just drank the koolaide, but I feel like for a compact camera, the Panasonic Lumix DMC LX3 is the camera to have in the prosumer compact area.

    But then my criteria isn't likely the norm. I wanted a compact with a while angle and very good photo quality. I think it beats the g10
    Last edited by lidarman; 01-07-2009 at 02:03 PM.

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