studio lighting distance question(s)

[SunWuKung]

I'm trying to collect the right pieces for a home bedroom studio. I've got a Port-a-Stand backdrop and a couple of photoflood hot lights. I'm thinking of going to strobes instead and based on what a lot of people around here have suggested, the Alien Bees 800's look really nice. The room that I'm using is 11' by 14' with 7' ceilings. Not great, but it's all I've got. My question is this: What's the standard distance used between the backdrop and model? I know that it can vary, but what do you guys use? Books always talk about the lighting positions and distances, but I haven't found anything that even mentions how far away from the backdrop your model should be in a studio setting. I just need a place to start I guess. What would be a good starting point as far as setting the room up? Would I want to set up going lengthwise so I have more distance to move the camera, or would I want more width to space the lights farther apart from each other?

Thanks in advance. You guys rock.

[Asylum Steve]

Welcome to the site, Sun. Perhaps the most frustrating thing about studio lighting is that there are no hard rules for setting up. Different setups will simply give you different results. Not only that, but the harder you try to get it down to a "formula", the more the chances your shot will look formulaic.

You have to figure out the style you wish to shoot, and then try to analyze how best to use your space to achieve it.

For example, with the way I like to light much of my fashion, I find I'm most hampered by narrow spaces with low ceilings. This is mostly because I prefer wider and higher lighting angles.

Of course, you can use lower, and more centered lighting and get real good results, it will just be different.

About your backdrop question, the easy answer is that the closer your subject is to your bg, the more likely shadows from your lights will fall on it. Also the more likely it is that the bg will be in sharper focus. While these two things are not normally desired in a studio shot, they are not neccesarily going to ruin it.

So, I guess what I'm saying is that you need to create a starting point, do variations on the positioning of everything, and view and evaluate the results. Then you make adjustments.

Make sure you post some work when you start using you new space. Good luck!

[SunWuKung]

Thanks Steve. Good stuff to know. And to follow-up questions, here are a couple more.

Is it worth the switch to strobes or should I stick with hot lights? Strobes and flash photography have always scared me away me because I never understood how you were supposed to set your exposures and how you'd figure out the right settings for key, fill, background, and accent lights. After much reading, I think I get it, but it's still a little intimidating. The Alien Bees strobes seem pretty easy to use and people really seem to like them. Are two 800's a good place to start or should I go with an 800 and a 400? Or something entirely different?

That being said, are there any problems with the Alien Bees strobes hooked up to a Canon 20D? I read some earlier posts about issues with Nikon dSLR's. I'm thinking about finally biting the bullet and going digital. As much as I'd LOVE a 1D mII (I shoot on an EOS 3 and an Elan 7E), the price of the 20D is actually within my range. I've got some time to think about it though, since Canon's reportedly backordered on the 20D's until January. I just don't want to wind up with strobes that fry my dSLR.

Thanks again. I will definitely post pics once I get some taken.

[Asylum Steve]

The age old adage is that you should learn lighting with hot lights, then move up to strobes when you think you can handle (or afford, heh heh) them.

The truth is, most pros use a bit of both, depending on the situation, and often mix the two when the effect is right. The ease of white balancing and color correcting with digital makes it even easier to blend the two types of light creatively.

Obviously, being able to see the effects of your hot lights as you work is a big advantage when shooting in the studio. This is the reason pros would shoot a ton of Polaroids when using strobes (in the good old days!).

Still, most all decent strobes now have proportioned modeling lights, so you do have a pretty good idea of how the light will fall, and as I mentioned, digital capture now takes much of the guesswork out of shooting flash.

The advantage of flash is, of course, power. A hot light that throws off the same amount of illumination as a medium priced monolight would be very diificult to work with because of its power consumption and/or heat, or MUCH more expensive if it were the newest generation of HMI (daylight balanced fluorescent).

The added power of a flash lets you use a lower ISO, higher sync speeds and smaller apetures, all things which generally give you a better chance at a successful shot.

As for the Bees, I have no experience with them (a few other members here do, though), but I can tell you that the two 800s would be better than an 800 and a 400. Get the lower powered one only if it's a question of money...

Your concern about using the flashes with the 20D (or any DSLR) is a legitimate one. Again, I don't know the specs of the Bees, but you can probably find out easily enough. To be on the safe side, I'd recommend a Wein Safe Sync Voltage Regulator...

[Peter_AUS]

The 20D specs for Safe Sync Voltage is 250V, so the Bees being less than 6V won't fry any of the cameras around, you don't need a Wein Safe Sync Voltage Regulator. If you got the 10D you wouldn't need one either unless you looked at buying anything other than the Bees as the 10D SSV is only 6V which has upset a lot of people using strobes with voltages up around the 15V SSV as they have discovered they have fried there shutter mechanism because of this which isn't covered under warranty at all.

The 20D does seem like a huge improvement over the 10D with many things better in it, although the size of the camera is being commented on as being a little small for larger hand people who find the 10D much better to handle.

[Asylum Steve]

although the size of the camera is being commented on as being a little small for larger hand people

Well, I know if I end up getting the 20D, I'll be sure to add the battery grip. Besides adding to the power, it also helps the camera feel more like the larger, heavier EOS film cameras I'm used to... ;)

[monkia]

I have a follow up question to this post. I am a beginner using a digital Canon 300D. We will shortly be doing some portaite work in a medium sized room in our house. We are reviewing various options for lighting. Lets assume we decide to go for strobe. I understand we could go for one of the following options:

1) Canon 1X 580EX and 2X 420EX wireless. 580 as the master on the camera.
2) Canon 1X 580EX and 2X other strobe lights (with a optic slave)

My understanding with option (1) is that Canon's E-TTL technology will mean that we wont need to do much in terms of configuring individual flash settings as the camera will control most of these settings to ensure correct exposure, etc.

In both cases I have selected the 580EX as I can then use this for other (out door) photography.

I would use the 580EX in 'bounce mode' off the ceiling to diffuse the front light in the 'studio'.

Questions are:

i) Am I right in my understanding above?
ii) What pros/cons would option (2) have over (1)? If there are valid ones, could you recommend a setup at the same or less price than option (1)?
iii) How powerful would option (1) be? Would/should I also get diffusers and lightboxes?
iv) Should I go for EX550 instead of EX420?

Thanks

Ian

[Peter_AUS]

Ian,

My advice to you would be to get some dedicated studio stobes, such as the Bowen 500 Esprit 2 head kit and start with that, over the Canon 550/420/580EX stobes, you will find you will get much better results from these dedicated stobes over the Canon Flashes. Don't go down the track I have gone the last couple of years, now waiting to get proper Stobe Setup, i.e. Bowens or Elinchroms if I wait another 6 months.

Check out Jessops as a starting point for looking, not necessarily purchasing as I have no experience with them.

[monkia]

Thanks for the advice. I am also looking at Bees (www.alienbees.com). Any thoughts on these?

Is your recomendation based on the power output from dedicated strobes? Some of these dedicated strobes do not seem to have significantly higher Guide Values.

I also assume that I would need to purchase a lighting meter, etc if I went down this approach. With the all Canon approach all the metering is taken care of by the camera - right?

Cheers

Ian

[Peter_AUS]

Ian,

Based on my experience with a Canon 550EX, Sunpak 5000 and Metz flash used in to umbrellas and background lighting.

Not having modelling lights doesn't help and it is very much trial and error. Also the recycle time is high, compared to dedicated stobes.

I suggested the Bowens as they are in the UK, service would be very easy if anything fails as apposed to the Alien Bees, which would have to be sent back to the USA for repair, unless you have an Electrician repair them in the UK.

Remember the 400 AB is equivalent to a 160W light and the 800 is equivalent to about 300W, where the Bowens is a true 500W light and much higher modelling light as well.

If you are shooting Digital, then you should be able to use your camera as your light meter, but a light meter would help. I have a Sekonic L358 light meter, which is considered very capable as a light meter.

My suggestion of the Bowens as well, it is a two light kit, giving 1000 W, has Stepless 1/1 to 1/32 f/stops and the modelling can be constant or proportional as well. It comes with a softbox and umbrella as well. I think you get better kit setups there in the UK than we do downunder here in Australia, there is only the one kit, so that is limited, although there is a 3 head kit as well.

Other lights to look at which are similar, would be the Hensel 500 W heads and also Elinchrom Style 300S or 600S (fan cooled).

I like the Elinchrom lights, faster recycle, faster stobe as well, compared to the Bowens.

I personally don't think for me, hot lights are my cup of tea to learn on, the heat factor alone in a home studio environment just wouldn't work, especially for children, or even adults either.

I have considered the Alien Bees, but the fact that there is no other place to have them repaired except in the USA, the freight alone, restricts this as a choice.