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  1. #1
    Seb
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    random night scenes

    Here are few more scenes/things that grabbed my attention on my way last night.

    I had to seriously crop the two window shots to hide perspective lines from the windows walls. Should I absolutely manage to have my camera perfectly parallel to the wall to avoid this effect? The wall shot also is problematic to my eyes. While I am not happy with the result, I submit it for the sole purpose of getting your advice on how to work these scenes.

    Thank's for watching

    Seb
    Last edited by Seb; 04-08-2010 at 10:48 PM.

  2. #2
    Where is Snowy? Yoyo Szeto's Avatar
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    I like photo 3. The colour combination is very good.
    yoyo

  3. #3
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    #1 The fountains could have made this an interesting shot, if it wasn't for the fact that their lights distract the viewer. Nothing in an image editor can improve this shot and I do think that you have to try a different approach to make this location (which definitely has potential) work.

    #2 and #3 A label on the glass, the bottom of a window, that's the very little things that remind us that we're looking through a window. Forget about these minor details and assume that you're looking at shots taken INSIDE a building. What we then see is two shots with no real focus point and lots of distracting elements and suddenly it's clear that this is the reason why both these images don't have the impact that we want it to have.

    #4 I like this shot. Personally I would like to see walls going up straight, without the perspective. Sometimes we use that perspective to create the illusion of anxiety or height, but I don't see the intention in this image. Like I said, I like the shot but in my opinion it's missing something, like the dark contours of a pedestrian passing by (and his/her shadow). I read not long ago about a photographer who stayed at one spot, waiting for 20 min before the much needed pedestrian walked by. Yes, one needs a lot of patience for this (ha! I'm very honest, I don't have that patience), but those 20 min is nothing compared to what some photographers invest (time, money, patience) to make a particular shot really work.
    You might consider to go back with a friend and let him walk through the scene (or sit down against the wall), that's what I once did.

    These are my personal views, use that information what you consider useful Seb, thanks for sharing!

  4. #4
    mjm
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    i dig #4 as well. i might crop out the left side a little bit though, the right side is a little heavier because of the lighting.

  5. #5
    Seb
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    Hello Joe,

    First of all, thank you for taking the time to express your detailled point of view.

    Quote Originally Posted by JoeD
    #1 The fountains could have made this an interesting shot, if it wasn't for the fact that their lights distract the viewer. Nothing in an image editor can improve this shot and I do think that you have to try a different approach to make this location (which definitely has potential) work.
    I was drawn by the scene as a whole an my first thought was to capture it entirely (a mistake that I oftenly make I guess). Taking for granted that the fountains by themselves distract by their stong light, there is strictly no way to shoot the whole scene regardless of the angle. Which lead me to a specific idea regarding a close up. I'll definately rework this location the next time I go there.



    Quote Originally Posted by JoeD
    #2 and #3 A label on the glass, the bottom of a window, that's the very little things that remind us that we're looking through a window. Forget about these minor details and assume that you're looking at shots taken INSIDE a building. What we then see is two shots with no real focus point and lots of distracting elements and suddenly it's clear that this is the reason why both these images don't have the impact that we want it to have.
    Is a focusing point always mandatory? Can a scene be cluttered yet effective? Considering your comment, I can easily see what is going wrong with my second picture. The composition is just too flat. However, I thought that the angle that I gave (on purpose) to my third picture would draw the viewer from the painting in the foreground at the right, to the textured wall and then to the shelves in the background. I really thought that the location of every single items into that store and the mix of forms/colors/textures speaked for itself. I would also say that my primary goal here was to convey the magic of these window in the middle of the night, which possibly don't work as I have taken them out of their context. Including a good section of the street while focusing on the window possibly is the answer.



    Quote Originally Posted by JoeD
    #4 I like this shot. Personally I would like to see walls going up straight, without the perspective. Sometimes we use that perspective to create the illusion of anxiety or height, but I don't see the intention in this image. Like I said, I like the shot but in my opinion it's missing something, like the dark contours of a pedestrian passing by (and his/her shadow). I read not long ago about a photographer who stayed at one spot, waiting for 20 min before the much needed pedestrian walked by. Yes, one needs a lot of patience for this (ha! I'm very honest, I don't have that patience), but those 20 min is nothing compared to what some photographers invest (time, money, patience) to make a particular shot really work.
    I truly like your idea of including a pedestian shadow here. I can easily picture the superb effect that it would gives. That being said, my primary concern with that picture is the unwanted perspective as I have clearly stated at first. If I wanted to convey an illusion of height, I guess that I would have tried to exagerate perspective lines by using a wide angle lense (something that I have never tried so far yet I have few basic ideas about it). My question here is how do get rid (or at least minimize as much as possible) perspective lines to get the wall to be straight. This is what I wanted (but failed) to achieve on picture 2,3 and 4.

    regards

    Seb

  6. #6
    Seb
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    Quote Originally Posted by mjm
    i dig #4 as well. i might crop out the left side a little bit though, the right side is a little heavier because of the lighting.
    Thank you Mjm,

    I think that you are right on.

    Seb

  7. #7
    Sleep is optional Sebastian's Avatar
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    Seb,

    The only bit of advice I can give from experience is about light sources.

    I have found no way of including a light source in a night image without it blowing out and becoming a very strong distraction. I think that's what hurts several images here. Try to utilize the light if it's interesting, but the contrast between the source and the subject being illuminated will be such that it's nearly impossible to capture. Try some exposures where the lights simply aren't in the frame, and ust expose for the subjects.

    Take care.
    -Seb
    -Seb

    My website

    (Please don't edit and repost my images without my permission. Thank you)

    How to tell the most experienced shooter in a group? They have the least amount of toys on them.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seb
    Is a focusing point always mandatory? Can a scene be cluttered yet effective
    No, not in my 'book'. I've seen some great shots that show nothing but patterns without any real focus point. I also think that a scene can be cluttered but still be effective. It's all about what you want to express Seb. I went with my wife to a cute little antique store that had nothing but clutter. If I were to take a shot of that store I would include some of the clutter, but in some organized manner from a photographer's point of view (colors, light, framing, etc). That's just my view on things Seb.

    Those are the things that seem to be succesful when I look at exceptional images of someone else or if I can be satisfied when I look at my own shots. See, I've kinda learned photography the other way around (I'm now only talking about when to press the button). I've always looked (I still do) at exceptional images of others to figure out why they had that impact on me. When I was young I didn't have a lot of money to spend on shooting maybe a hundred rolls of film each year (just to practice, experiment). That's why I found myself very often looking at images in books, magazines, even steady shots on TV. That's how I mostly learned (and still learn) to look at things.

    Quote Originally Posted by Seb
    However, I thought that the angle that I gave (on purpose) to my third picture would draw the viewer from the painting in the foreground at the right, to the textured wall and then to the shelves in the background. I really thought that the location of every single items into that store and the mix of forms/colors/textures speaked for itself.
    This is some advice I have given to others many times in the past is; try to focus on what to leave out. People have the tendancy to put too much in one shot.
    Seb, how many times do you read in comments that people advice to leave this or that out of a shot, whether it be clutter or distracting elements, like objects, colors, light, etc.

    Another thing that might be worth mentioning; there is always two ways to approach a scene as a photographer. You can narrow your view to a smaller area or you can start with that element that grabs the most attention and widen the view. In this example I would have started with the red lights and worked from there.

    All I'm posting here are suggestions Seb, nothing more but suggestions. Try to find out if these suggestions seems to work for you or if some of them are succesfully reflected in the images of others.
    Last edited by Elysian; 06-16-2004 at 04:55 PM.

  9. #9
    Seb
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeD
    No, not in my 'book'. I've seen some great shots that show nothing but patterns without any real focus point. I also think that a scene can be cluttered but still be effective. It's all about what you want to express Seb. I went with my wife to a cute little antique store that had nothing but clutter. If I were to take a shot of that store I would include some of the clutter, but in some organized manner from a photographer's point of view (colors, light, framing, etc). That's just my view on things Seb.

    Those are the things that seem to be succesful when I look at exceptional images of someone else or if I can be satisfied when I look at my own shots. See, I've kinda learned photography the other way around (I'm now only talking about when to press the button). I've always looked (I still do) at exceptional images of others to figure out why they had that impact on me. When I was young I didn't have a lot of money to spend on shooting maybe a hundred rolls of film each year (just to practice, experiment). That's why I found myself very often looking at images in books, magazines, even steady shots on TV. That's how I mostly learned (and still learn) to look at things.

    This is some advice I have given to others many times in the past is; try to focus on what to leave out. People have the tendancy to put too much in one shot.
    Seb, how many times do you read in comments that people advice to leave this or that out of a shot, whether it be clutter or distracting elements, like objects, colors, light, etc.

    Another thing that might be worth mentioning; there is always two ways to approach a scene as a photographer. You can narrow your view to a smaller area or you can start with that element that grabs the most attention and widen the view. In this example I would have started with the red lights and worked from there.

    All I'm posting here are suggestions Seb, nothing more but suggestions. Try to find out if these suggestions seems to work for you or if some of them are succesfully reflected in the images of others.
    Hello Joe,

    Then again, there is a lot of insightful thinking here. I really like your view of things.

    Still, one single question remain; how to get rid of the perspective effect to get the wall (or any other architecture shots for that matter) straight? I know that I have to work it out for myself (which I will do starting this week end) but any hint as a starting point would be much appreciated.

    best regards

    Seb

  10. #10
    Seb
    Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Sebastian
    Seb,

    The only bit of advice I can give from experience is about light sources.

    I have found no way of including a light source in a night image without it blowing out and becoming a very strong distraction. I think that's what hurts several images here. Try to utilize the light if it's interesting, but the contrast between the source and the subject being illuminated will be such that it's nearly impossible to capture. Try some exposures where the lights simply aren't in the frame, and ust expose for the subjects.

    Take care.
    -Seb
    That's a sad observation. I just like to capture light sources lol. I think that you hit a nail here. I will try to be more selective when I consider including a light source into my composition.

    Thank you for the hint.

    Seb

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seb
    Still, one single question remain; how to get rid of the perspective effect to get the wall (or any other architecture shots for that matter) straight?
    Important to know is that the perspective doesn't change which ever lens you use, only the magnification. That is, if you remain at the same shooting distance with both lenses.

    The perspective like in your image is created if the angle (A) between the camera and the building is larger or smaller than 90 degrees. What happens if we respect that angle? Then we might not be able to include some of the higher parts of the building. The only way to keep that angle intact is by using a wide angle lens (don't go too low or you'll get barrel distortion) or by finding a higher postion from which you take the shot (holding camera higher, climbing/walking to a higher position, shooting from inside another building, etc)..
    Using a wider lens helps you to include the higher part of the building, but it automatically adds lower parts that you probably don't want in your image. Tough one eh? Then it's either cropping the image or considering to move to a higher postion.

    All what I said also applies if your intention is to include more of the botom of the building without the perspective. In that case you position your camera lower or you start using a wider lens with of course all risks of including too much at the top of your shot.
    Another approach is to take the shot with the 90 degrees angle in mind and to crop both top and bottom the way you prefer it. I know, it isn't always the best solution, but I thought it was still worth mentioning, especially with the increasing image resolutions we've seen over the last few months.
    I do hope that you understand what I meant, it's not all that easy to explain in just a few words.

    Let's take your image as an example. Your intention was probably to avoid to include too much of the road, so you tilted the camera slightly upwards which introduced the perspective In this particular example you had two choices when you want to keep that 90 degrees angle intact:

    a) Find a higher location to shoot from or hold the camera higher. You might even want to try the "lucky" shot approach by stretching your arms and shooting without being able to have a look through your view finder or to have a descent look at your lcd screen.
    b) taking the shot with the highest resolution possible and cropping the bottom part.

    Let's make it clear though that perspective isn't always a bad thing, it all has to do what you want to express and sometimes you're so restricted at the location where you stand, that you can't avoid perspective.

    Let's say that you find some kind of distortion in your image and you want to get rid of it. There are special tools that can correct this. In my attachment you'll see what kind of options you have available in programs/plugins like that. There are also programs that use markers to correct an image, I expect that they can be easier to use, especially when you have more than one distortion in one image that you want to correct.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails random night scenes-ia.gif  
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    Last edited by Elysian; 06-16-2004 at 08:59 PM.

  12. #12
    Seb
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    Hello Joe,

    Then again, thank you for your very detailled answer. I couldn't possibly ask for more. It's good to know that the issue "simply" is a matter of perpendicular angle. I naturally assumed that it was part of the answer but I tought that there could have been more to it.

    Now I have to do my homeworks. I hope to be able to post news (and fairly improved) shots here rather soon.

    If I do buy a wide angle lense (I intend to rent one first), I will necessarily stick to a prime and it will certainly be a genuine Nikon. I don't want to go cheap with lenses.

    best regards

    Seb

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