Highly upset!!

[ken1953]

Here they are getting paid to take pics with basically an expensive P&S camera. It makes me wonder why I'm spending so much of my time learning about exposure, DOF, all the controls on my camera and everything else that I can relating to photography before I start to advertise my services.

I know I just bought a p/s, but I made sure it had manual modes so I could learn photography...now you're saying, I don't need to learn it to make money at it???? (Just being sarcastic!!!) But I also know that if I don't learn the "photographic" end of photography, that all of my pictures will be mediocre at best. I still shoot most of my stuff in program mode, but I am now also switching and trying a few shots with the manual mode, with some success I might add!!! Still mediocre in my opinion...but hopefully, soon...they'll start to get to where I can make a few dollars!!!

Ken

[mjs1973]

I know I just bought a p/s, but I made sure it had manual modes so I could learn photography...now you're saying, I don't need to learn it to make money at it???? (Just being sarcastic!!!) But I also know that if I don't learn the "photographic" end of photography, that all of my pictures will be mediocre at best. I still shoot most of my stuff in program mode, but I am now also switching and trying a few shots with the manual mode, with some success I might add!!! Still mediocre in my opinion...but hopefully, soon...they'll start to get to where I can make a few dollars!!!

Ken

I'm right with you Ken. I still use program mode once in a great while for snapshots, but I still want to learn more and more about photography. Both of the women I was talking about have DSLR's but are using them as p&s. I don't think that's a bad thing, but I do find it a bit frustrating that I know much more about thier gear and how to use it than they do, but they are the ones cashing the checks.

On a more positive note, it has motivated me to get my butt in gear so I can get my name out there this Spring.

[Michael Fanelli]

How did a new forum get by me? I was directed here and shocked to see where I landed.

Unfortunately, I don't have a lot to stir up here. I am one of those photographers who gives away my work. A few times, small companies have seen my web site and found photos they like. They asked permission to use them (!) and I gave it to them. For friends and fellow workers, if someone wants a print of an image, I'll get it done for them and just charge them what it cost me. I don't do "extra" work, its all or nothing, so my time is minimal.

I am now teaching. If someone wants to go to the library and learn physics by themselves, should I claim that the loaning of book cuts down on my business? If I talk casually to someone about physics (yes, that does happen!), am I stealing money out of my own pocket?

I realize that many pros don't like this, they really do see it as taking money out of their pocket. But that's just not true for me! My friends aren't going to buy photos from some pro, it's me or nothing. Those companies were not IBM or GE! They were small without a lot of money. They couldn't afford a pro even if they wanted to. This is not your market, there is no money potential to begin with.

The business side of being a pro makes amateur photography a lot more interesting! I'll keep giving away work because (1) its not as good as most pros anyway and (2) it keeps me free to take photos that please only me.

[adina]

Not quite. Using your camera hardly makes you an instanteous professional photographer. You might get some images with good exposure, but there is, usually, a noticable difference between a professional quality image and one that is taken by a noob with a DSLR on auto.

Sorry, that was my attempt at sarcasm.

What I really mean, is that so many people get a higher end camera, and all of a sudden are starting a business, but don't know the relationship between dof and aperture.

There's always an influx after Christmas.....

[masdog]

[sarcasm]There is a connection between DOF and Apeture? I had no idea!!![/sarcasm]

Fair enough. I know what you mean, Adina. I think I was the same way when I got my first D-Rebel.

[Speed]

"Now, I am expected at the games. The parents, and players look for me. they check my site after every game to see the pics. I have created a market to sell prints, but as of yet, I cannot print them."

Sounds to me like you do have a market after all.

As for not being able to print them, there are several options. First is find a Wal Mart, CVS, Half Hour Photo, whatever, that has a machine for making digital prints. You'll have to charge enough to cover your expenses (cost of the print, fuel to get there, your time).
Second method is find an online store for your photo's. There are places where you can upload your photo's, the players, parents, coaches, etc, could go to that site and order their prints. The company will print them and mail them for you, subtract their take, and send you a check. Sebastian was the first one I found out about on this site to do that sort of thing. He can tell you about it.

Even though I have access to a printer capable of making photo's, I prefer going the CVS route myself. Maybe one day, if I get into digital big time, I may start making my own prints.

It's a tough thing to do, asking for money for your work, but you can do it. And it gets easier over time.

PS: The first time someone asks you "How much?", and when you tell them they ask "Why so little?", you'll very quickly become aware of your worth as a photographer. BTDT!!!

[swmdrayfan]

Can open.............worms everywhere.;)

I'm seeing a lot of interesting comments here. Everyone that's chipped in with his/her opinions have made valid points, and I guess I should throw my 2 pennies in. For the last couple of years I've been taking photos at a local minor league stadium, and giving copies to the players in exchange for their autographs on my copies. Last year an arrangement was made to sell my pictures in the souvenir stand with the team, myself, and the player pictured getting a three-way split of the profits. I have a D70, and even though I've managed to sell 3 pictures to a baseball card company, and one to a magazine (all at the going rate they pay), no way do I consider myself a "pro". When approached by people in the stands, I sell them (4x6) at a nominal cost. The local newspaper sends out a photographer occasionally to shoot the games, but other than that, I'm the only "game" in town.

I used to give pictures to people until a couple of my fellow booster club members (figuratively)kicked me in the butt and said I should charge for my work. I figure if they valued my work more than I did, I needed to get with the program. It really hit home last summer when a fan asked one of the ushers if I would photograph his daughter singing the National Anthem, she told him 'sure, for 5 bucks'. When I went to give the guy the 2 copies I had for him, he gave me $20. The moral of the story for me is not to shortchange myself.....if I can give people what they want, and they like it, I don't need to feel guilty for taking their money. Now all I have to do is adjust my prices.

[swmdrayfan]

How's this for irony.....I just recieved an email from the sports information office of a college requesting a hi-res photo of a pitcher on the local minor league team. It will be used in their media guide. He made no mention of payment, so do I tell him I can send him one for a fee, or do I kindly ask what they pay for such photos? I figure if they don't make a habit of paying, at least I can get credit and a copy of the media guide. They want an action shot. This is my first request from a college, so I'm not sure of what to do. If I don't send them one, they'll probably go get one from somewhere else. J-S? PJ? masdog? anyone?

I know, I know...look at my previous post... I have to establish some ground rules. Some of you have dealt with colleges before, and I don't know what to expect.

[shutterman]

I can't really address the initial complaint about using photos w/o permission. Not sure how I would handle the situation except to say that I now display pictures on the web using a "Flash" program so pictures cannot be copied.

In terms of giving pictures away and others trying to make money - well this is essentially the same as any other market in any other industry where there are relatively low barriers to entry and technology that evolves constantly.

If someone wants to give pictures away than what can you do except to differentiate yourself in some way (service, quality, whatever). You can't expect to have a nice picture and then have someone say "Hey I would like to buy that - take my money" (although I guess that happens occasionally)

You have to sell it, sell yourself, demonstrate why they should pay for yours and not take the freebie. Adina pointed out that she makes a point to get out there and get in front of the customers - helping to create and expand her market.

There is an element of sales in this that you cannot forget and must work at constantly. Would you buy something when you could get it for free? No, but probably the end product isn't exactly the same, but what is the difference b/n the two? That is what you have to sieze upon. If in the end there is a real or percieved difference then you will have a sale and if you live up to your word and are dedicated to the business/art/quality you will have repeat customers.

[Chunk]

How's this for irony.....I just recieved an email from the sports information office of a college requesting a hi-res photo of a pitcher on the local minor league team. It will be used in their media guide.

NOMB but do you have a model release? Seems like they should pay for the use of the pic. They don't give you free classes, do they?

[swmdrayfan]

NOMB but do you have a model release? Seems like they should pay for the use of the pic. They don't give you free classes, do they?

Chunk....I think I have a release filed away. The college is in NC..I'm in Michigan. Nope...no free classes ;)

[masdog]

NOMB but do you have a model release? Seems like they should pay for the use of the pic. They don't give you free classes, do they?

Chunk, I don't think you would need a model release for something like this. The image of the player in action would be considered editorial use, and you don't need the player's permission to sell that image. If I'm not mistaken, you would only need permission from the league.

Sean