Something is bugging me. Why so dead around here?

[Todd Patten]

When I first came to this board, it was reasonably busy. There were a lot of regulars who would post images frequently and critique frequently. It seems now that there's not a lot of images posted and generally only one or two critiques. The site seems very stagnant lately.

Now, I will admit that I am guilty myself of not critiquing enough. Shoot, I'm guilty of not posting enough images, but I fail to post them because I don't see a lot of feedback! A very damaging circle wouldn't you say?

Now, one more minor gripe. I do not want to come off like another poster on this board who can be perceived as aloof, but there have been some really sub-par images here recently. Many with little thought and creativity that appear more as snapshots than as an attempt to hone skills. Am I wrong in this perception? Honestly, I don't want to tackle a critique on these images as all I can do is attack them for being lackluster.

Trust me, I don't consider myself anything beyond a slightly below average amature photographer, but I post images on here that are developed with the mindset of creativity and improving my abilities in all areas: composition, lighting, post-production work and creativity. Shoot, I just recently posted an image that I initially thought had nice post processing, but the folks here were able to guide me to a less extreme direction which significantly improved the final product. This is what the site is all about.

I miss seeing some of the work of many folks who were regulars here. I don't want to single anyone out, but I would love to see more from Nat, Kelly, Penny, Andy (AC -- How he finds so many beautiful women I do not know), Tuna, Chaos, Hodgy (another one with access to beautiful people), and others like we used to.

[another view]

Hi Todd - haven't seen you much around lately either! Kelly and Natalie both recently posted that they'll be busy with other situations/projects and not have a lot of free time to spend here for the next several weeks. And speaking at least for myself, summer brings a lot of activities between family and friend get togethers and vacations. That and other projects (I have a band and two more weddings to photograph), I only have a couple of free weekends between now and labor day - goes by quick! So I guess a lot of people are tied up with summer stuff too.

As far as the images go, are you talking about here in VF or in Critique? I have to admit I don't spend much time in Critique. If people post images here in VF, it's really just a place to share (went on vacation, saw something interesting, etc) rather than get serious about a critique. Some shots I post here I know I wouldn't want a critique on!

[jar_e]

Todd,

I think right now, especially with summer starting, there's alot of changing and new things happening, and, in all honesty, PR.com is probably not a high priority to alot of people. There is a high turnover on message boards, meaning people just sometimes stop coming, and new people fill that gap that they had made. Yes, there are regulars, and quite a few people with 1000+ posts, yet there are good days and bad days, and sometimes, that's just the way life is.
With sub-par pictures, I'd have to agree, but it's understandable and the only way you'll learn is if you post some of your work, no matter how good you are.

[almo]

Ups and downs Todd. It happens on any board.

[OldSchool]

Hi Todd,

I appreciate your message about Photo Critique. There does seem to be a few submissions that really don't have much premeditation to them. Personally, I don't have time to critique each shot. I look at them all, but I focus on those that I may be able to help on or that I will learn from. I think I enjoy what was going on in the photographers head and how they were set up the shot as much as the images.

But on the other hand, I don't mind the volume of traffic and spectrum of skills here. This board is a manageable size that I can get to know the other contributors. I have learned a lot from others here. And like you, others have pointed out issues with some of my images that made them much better.

So, let me take this opportunity to thank all those who have offered me pointers...
Cheers,
Tim

[Arctirus]

I stopped posting here for a while and have only started again in the past week. Frankly I left because I was completely bored here for many of the same reasons Todd brought up. I got tired of reading post after post of photos of someone's children or pet. On top of that I got very tired of the overwhelming positive feedback for boring, unartistic, ineffective photos. A critique isn't a critique if everyone says "wonderful photo!". So for a while I started posting at Fred Miranda forums. People tended to be much more professional there but I also got tired of being lost in the crowd so I came back. I used to feel bad giving negative feedback here as no one else seemed to ever do so. Now I just the the bad fly out with the good.

[Chunk]

Now, one more minor gripe. I do not want to come off like another poster on this board who can be perceived as aloof, but there have been some really sub-par images here recently. Many with little thought and creativity that appear more as snapshots than as an attempt to hone skills. Am I wrong in this perception? Honestly, I don't want to tackle a critique on these images as all I can do is attack them for being lackluster.

When I see an image from someone who seems to be wanting to improve (anyone who posts in Critique that is) that has a lot of faults I try to pick out one thing that can be easily be improved and is a technique that will also help the persons shooting on all their shots - something like "just before shooting, look all around the edges of the viewfinder and check that there isn't needless stuff in the frame". A person who is just trying to figure out how to make their pictures more than just snapshots doesn't need someone going off on them because there shot needs lots of improvement. Give them suggestions in small, attainable bites. They may also be pretty shy about posting what they already feel is not worthy and posts like this one, berating their efforts, don't help either. I know my skills have improved a LOT due to this site and theirs will too over time.

[ACArmstrong]

I've been really busy searching for my next model... LOL - actually, I've been busy shooting concerts, doing web design, and trying to have a life with my wife and daughter.

I hope to post more as soon as possible. Glad you like the work Todd.

[mtbbrian]

Summer is a busy time.
I am here and check in daily. I just haven't done that much photography lately.
Just keep checking in. There is daily activity here.
Brian

[McMadCow]

I've been thinking quite a lot along the same lines recently. I try to comment on as many images as I can, but too often I don't want to say things like, "this picture bores me". Just as the posters above me I don't claim to have any special skills when it comes to photography, but I do know what moves me. Lots of times people will post interesting photos that capture really neat moments and are full of emotional content, and all they hear from reviewers is things like, "You cut off an arm" or, "The left-hand corner is overexposed" or my personal favorite, "Your composition is too centered". So the result is that people get their otherwise fantastic pictures shot full of holes because of minor flaws that are INHERENT in many styles of photography. I think the overall effect is that many repeat posters tend to submit images that are sterile and lifeless, yet follow the "rules". Rules are meant to be broken, people. I'd rather see some soft-focus street scene with under/over-exposed areas where the photographer catches an interesting moment posted here rather than a perfectly exposed and composed image of their grandkid. I'm not as impressed when a photographer pre-prepares all the details and then takes the image as I am when I see a picture that captures an amazing moment despite all of the challenges. I wonder how many of Cartier-Bresson's photographs would get ripped to shreds by reviewers on this site for their alleged "flaws".

[mtbbrian]

My personal favorite comment...
"Great Pic! Congratulations on the Sticky!"
Why is it a great pic?
Brian
Done Ranting, Thanks!
;)

[ken1953]

I feel like I should make a comment here because I am probably one who takes snapshots rather than critiqueable photos, and that is why I post here instead of on the critique thread. I am not interested in becoming a professional photographer, I am more interested in becoming a better "picture taker". In the few posts I've done, I have already learned a great deal, but I know that none of my little pics is that great except for the fact that they are original and they are interesting, at least to me...and hopefully a few others. I have posted 2 pics for some critique on the sport thread. I was hoping to get some constructive feedback on them, but only PJ responded and his comment was more about what was the sport setting on my Kodak DX 4330. Well, I really couldn't tell him, but because of his comments and constructive questions, it really got me to thinking about the other settings on my camera and to stop and think a bit more about what setting I'm using. All in all, PR has already made me a much better "picture taker" and someday, maybe I'll try my hand at a little bit of "Art Photography", but until then, I'll stick here and hopefully learn enough to always present "good" pictures.
Ken

[MJS]

Hey Todd,
Like the Usuals have said, it's all one big cycle. Everyone goes throught the good, bad the the ugly phase in their work. I'm finally out of school for the summer with my kids, so you'll probably be stuck seeing more of them (sorry), along with some other portraiture of friends and clients. Don't take off, just realize that different people shoot different stuff.

[another view]

A critique isn't a critique if everyone says "wonderful photo!".

Agreed. I always found it easier to help someone if I knew why they wanted a critique (does the composition/movement/photoshopping/whatever work?) rather than just showing the photo. The few times I get over there (it seems overwhelming if you don't go there often), I'd rather help people where they want help. And sometimes I just don't have anything constructive to say. I don't feel that "nice shot" is a critique.

I guess if you post one in critique and try to critique even just two or three other shots, then you're giving more than you're taking. I should try to start doing this more often but time is limited and I really haven't been as much lately.

[mtbbrian]

As much as I love this community, I post stuff on other forums.( I know, I know...) I do this for lots of reasons. Some are specialized reasons to my work, i.e, my Holga stuff.
But I also like a second opinion.
But, we need to take the time to leave as detailed of a "critique" as possible.
Feedback isn't bad if it is constructive.
I for one feel no matter how "experienced" you consider yourself, you have something constructive to say.
Brian

[jar_e]

Brian,

I think that there's nothing wrong with posting something even if it doesn't construct. Some pictures, everything else has been covered, so I'll just add great picture or point out a minor thing that hasn't been recognized. We can construct things, and critiscism is fine as long as you give reasons for your answers.

Jared

[mattp]

I agree with a lot of the points McMadCow made about criticism here.

I've also recently discovered Flickr and that has been taking up a lot of the time I spend on the web now. I like the fact that with Flickr there is no 'obligation' to comment at all, but when people do come across my photostream they can at least consider the photos in context. Rather than trying to simply assess a single shot they can see what else I've been doing, and that will hopefully help them understand what I'm trying to achieve, and where I've got to in terms of improving my eye. It is quite a release not to watch one of your shots reach the bottom of a page with perhaps 30 views and 1 or 2 comments, and with that sinking feeling realise that once it goes to page two the likelihood of ever seeing it again is remote! In fact one of the first shots I posted on flickr quickly become one of my most viewed and favourited, and I remember thinking that it received no comments at all when I tried it here - you can just never tell!

I'll certainly keep an eye on this site as there are a number of good photographers here, but it suspect it is going to take up less time in future.

regards

matt

[another view]

Rather than trying to simply assess a single shot they can see what else I've been doing, and that will hopefully help them understand what I'm trying to achieve, and where I've got to in terms of improving my eye.

That's a good point - if I see a shot from someone who's work I know, then I can probably give a more helpful critique.

I'm not the expert in how to do this - (paging Almo!) but I think you could set up your own gallery here and have a link to it in your signature (which shows up at the bottom of your posts). That might be a similar way to do what you're looking for.

Almo has this set up, and he has a reply above. Click on the link in his signature to see his gallery.