A RESPONSE--FOR JOE D since I can't PM him

[natatbeach]

I received a private message from you with some interesting viewpoints and have found your private message and email blocked...so this is the only way I can respond... sorry for the fact it's so public and not as private as I would have hoped...but what you said really required a response.....so for Joe D....Here ya go... copied and pasted from a private message...

That's one way to get someone's attention there!

Interesting choice of words to your private message...but a bit of truth to both. I'm sorry for not responding to your responses.

On both instances (maternity shot and the last one) I put it on a to do list and of course never got back to it. You weren't the only one who didn't receive a personal response...

Both times I have either been in the middle of resolving some sort of family dilemma
( dealing with my son's lawyer/psychiatrist and trying to get him placed in a better academic situation before the end of August and before they allow him to fail for the fourth year in a row) or struggling with everything at my church kinda falling apart. to some those are minor issues to me...they suck the life out of me...

what I wanted to say about your response to the last thing you sent was that you were pretty on target...I am surrounded by people and things that rarely give back as much I give out...so I generally have every ounce of energy sucked right out of me...most of the people don't even have any clue how bad things are in our lives right now. And I put up minor explanations of my life"in a nutshell" which really encompasses just a sliver of what's really going on. never the less....

"Selfishness" and being rude are really inexcusable and I'm really sorry to have upset you. Like I said I fade in and out of here and the fading usually indicates a very stressful time on my end where I have very little to give back emotionally,creatively or otherwise.

As far as your assesments of me---strange and troubled---hey I've been called worse...rude was pretty deserving and maybe unintentionally selfish...

Just a thought, but you might wanna consider a measure of compassion and understanding before throwing out such "special" adjective towards someone you barely know...and especially some "strange woman" who actually wanted to try and understand you on some level despite everyone elses obvious opinions.

hope this can be water under the bridge...

Sincerely ,
either the most troubled woman or most selfish woman.

take care JoeD

---- this may not be the best way to respond but it was the only one available, for that again I'm sorry I had to respond...Sorry to the rest of you for having your living room rug... puked on

[JoeD .]

Natalie,

I've never asked anyone anything in return. Am I not the guy who always gave (critique), without asking anything back?
I like to help people and what I really like about it is seeing people improve and because of that having more joy with their hobby. Actually I try to share my own joy. I've told you in the past how nuts I am about photography, design, art and everything that has slightly to do with creativity. That's the joy I want to share.

Let's sum some things up. You posted some good maternity shots a while back. I was one of the few who could appreciate your great work. Sadly not many replied.

opinions please

Then you asked me to review some other shots which I did with great pleasure

a few more for review and critique

I do understand your troubled life at the moment, but why did you never reply in both threads or paged me back with some comments, when you did take the time to reply to other posts during those days?

I thought, yeah ok, she must have a good reason for that, forget about it.

Days later you posted me again. You asked me about my background as a photographer. I was more than willing to tell you all about it. My message ended with letting you know how appreciated you as a photographer. I tried to express in many words what my reasoning is why I enjoy your approach on photography.

Strange... again no reply, but you were still posting in other threads. Oh well, I thought, she must have a different reason this time.

Days later you messaged me again, asking me in a funny why why my latest reviews were a bit 'soft'. I had to laugh about that. Well, I explained why it was and then ended with talking about your personal problems. I took the time to for some advice and encouragement, even shared some of my personal things in life.
It's because for me helping people goes beyond photography. The fact that I only see your name, doesn't change for me the fact that you're still human. I hardly know you, but that didn't matter to me write what I wrote, but for some unexplainable reason you just took it for granted.

Again, I didn't get a reply back and you were still posting in the forum.

See, I don't get this. You have contacted me several times to help you, which I did and I also took time for your personal problems, trying to make them a little more bearable.
But all those 3 times you never replied but still found time to post images, change an avatar, start new posts or reply to the posts of others.

Late this make it clear; my messages weren't a few lines, these were complete letters! Neither were my comments on your photographs oneliners.

At such a moment I get the impression that I'm nothing more than a name, not a person.
I really don't understand why you did continue to do other things in the board and totally ignored me (and others like you said yourself).
You come up with things like "lots of things going on in my life right now", but at the same time you posted dozens of posts (several with photographs), but totally ignored me. I think it's sad if people use the bad things in their life as a cheap excuse for things like these.

Maybe you had planned to contact me later, but was it so difficult to send me a short message to let me know???

Why is it for you hard to understand when I called you 'strange'. I haven't been rude towards you, but I did write you that I wondered what I should think of you; a 'troubled woman' or a 'selfish woman'. I clearly wrote that I preferred to believe that you were 'troubled'.
C'mon Natalie, I took the time to review you maternity shots when nobody else took the time, I also reviewed the other shots when you asked me to, I did take the time to tell more about my art and photography background in more than just a few lines and did take the time to reply to your last message and to talk about your situation, giving some advice and talking about some precious details of my own life. In several of these posts I've also talked highly about your photography skills. In none of these cases your replied.

Yes, I don't know you, but your reactions (or lack of it actually) are a good reason for me to use the word 'strange'.

The fact that you find it necessary to post your latest message in public only gives that word more weight, because why didn't you ask me in this thread to contact you instead of doing something that is not in the board's interest???
And why is that slightly "kicking your butt" gives you more reason to reply instead of "being kind"???

I don't understand you Natalie. I've always been nice towards you, helped you even in several other messages, have always shown you how I appreciate your work, have told others how I admire your approach in Photography, shared my personal life and now this?

I don't get it, I really don't. Can you now understand the words "troubled?" or "strange?".

My start on this board wasn't smooth. I must admit, I didn't feel happy about that myself. I wanted to do something positive in return and that's what I've tried to do for a while. I don't have to tell what I did for this board, but I do know that several people told me how they appreciated my contributions.
Your public message, directed at me, throws me all the way back in time. We can make this an endless 'yes,no,but' discussion, but people will always make up their own mind. I might be considered 'bad' Joe again and really don't deserve that. People make mistakes, I did too, but nobody can ever blame me for not trying to make up for it.

Don't get me wrong Natalie, I'm not mad, I've always considered you a nice person to talk with, but I'm just disappointed about all this. Over the years I've learned not to waste time on things that are not getting anywhere. This is one of these moments.

Natalie, you had your change to say what you wanted to say, so did I, we're even now, let's keep it this way and consider this thread closed. It's in the best interest of this board. I you still want to reply in this thread, I can't stop you, but don't expect any reply from me; I have no need to continue to defend myself, I've passed that stage years ago. I've tried to express in an honest way my view on this whole situation and there's nothing more I have to add.

Don't get me wrong, I really don't like to bring this all out in the open, but with such a public message I felt the need to write down my side of the story.

Take care guys, I was always honored to review your wonderful photographs.... and Natalie, like I wrote last time; after rainy days there's always sunshine but I don't think you really care about people right now. Because let's be honest, you give more in your life right now than you're getting back, your battery is empty and it shows...

[Sean Dempsey]

Dear JoeD,

Get this book: "The Skills of Encouragement". You've got a pathological lack of empathy and social skills.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...books&n=507846

[JoeD ,]

I never knew that I would hurt you this much by some little straightforwardness of mine;

Old chevy

But at the same time you make thankful use of my help some 3 days ago;

External HD's and automatic synchronizing or backup

Grow up Sean.

[opus]

Are we supposed to reply to all our responses?

Oops!

So much I don't know yet...

[JoeD ,]

Kelly, if you think that it's more than normal not to reply to the last 2 detailed reviews on two threads and not to reply on 3 l o n g personal letters (that makes 5), then I might advice you to read Sean's book.
See, there's a major difference between you and me; I reply to help people and ask nothing in return, you reply to posts so that people are willing to comment on all the photographs you post. It's good to hear that this fuels your selfesteem (you think you're not pretty) that you seem to be lacking after reading several of your posts.

I'm surprised to see how many people feel the urge to bring up some less tactful comments I made 150 posts ago and why they prefer to ignore the positive things I did (in my opinion) for this board. Oh well, I guess 'forgiving' is a skill that only few possess. I'm glad to hear that some of you are THE perfect people.

Topic closed, I refuse to be the engine of that keeps this "pick-on-the-bad-guy" attitude running.

Bye.

[Sean Dempsey]

Posts: 1?

JoeD
JoeD ,
JoeD .

3 different accounts?

Hey, I'm just trying to return the help! You help me with photography, I help you with social skills and personal growth.

Frankly, your post displays exactly what I am talking about. That book is GREAT and I think you'd really benefit from it.

Don't be afraid of self awareness. Sometimes Joe, you need to set the anger down and take a look in the mirror. Take a big dive in lake "you".

[paulnj]

END THIS NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

NOBODY!!!!! WILL COME OUT THE WINNER......NOBODY!!!!!!!

LEAVE JOE ALONE!!! HE HAS A RIGHT TO REPLY IN HIS WAY!!!!

LEAVE THIS THREAD ALONE AND LET IT PASS... for IT WAS A JOE/NAT issue WASN'T IT???

Niether JOE nor NAT are the "bad guys".. people are different and view things differently

[Charles Hess]

Agreed, thanks Paul. Now that you have aired it out in the forum, let's end this without others jumping in. Nat and Joe, continue this if you must, but please do it via email.