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  1. #26
    nature/wildlife co-moderator paulnj's Avatar
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    Re: Religious and Political Discussion

    Ray , I too voted "NO", as I can see any spark on viewfinder turned into a bonfire over in the bad guy room

    But if one IS created... I nominate

    SCHRACKMAN and PAULNJ as CO moderators

    we can be Paul McCartney and Stevie Wonder ...." EBONY N IVORY"

    You get first choice of who you'd like to be , as I can play either ;)

    LIGHTEN UP PEOPLE.... the great thing about freedom is people can have their own views.

    I for one found some GREAT points in the thread in question and LEARNED a few things(though I won't say who's)
    CAMERA BIRD NERD #1




    BIRD NERD O'CANON

    "Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both" - Benjamin Franklin

  2. #27
    Just a Member Chunk's Avatar
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    Re: Religious and Political Discussion

    Sorry, John, but I didn't vote. I don't think you have the right question there. I think a better question is something like " Do religous and political discussions belong on a photography site?" ...and my vote for that is NO. There are plenty of other places on the web where one can have those kind of arguments if one wants. It would be better if just out of courtesy for each other those subjects aren't brought up here.
    We should still be tolerant of people feeling they receive some spiritual feeling from some photo or aspect of photography or when I or others feel that some aspect of what we do is evolutionary in nature, but neither one of us ought to get 'preachy' about it.
    When religous/political stuff does crop up I'd encourage everyone to ignore it, not just the ones who disagree with it. I had to just ignore some threads before the election when some peoples political enthusiasm was overflowing and making some of us feel unwelcome. I'm not sure what the other thread is that everyone is mentioning - probably because I started ignoring it when it turned left.

  3. #28
    News & Rum-or-ator opus's Avatar
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    Re: Religious and Political Discussion

    Then probably all Mac vs. PC threads should be ignored too ... and heck, even Canon vs. Nikon, because I don't believe in Nikon and don't want anyone discussing why they do.

    My vote is not to censor certain topics while allowing others. Who's the judge? If this board is about photography only, then remove the Viewfinder and require all threads to stay on a strict photography theme. If it can be open to other topics, then allow what's legal to be discussed. The best, most perfect way to avoid such threads if one doesn't like them is to *not open them.*
    Drink Coffee. Do stupid things faster with more energy.


  4. #29
    Just a Member Chunk's Avatar
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    Re: Religious and Political Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by kellybean
    Then probably all Mac vs. PC threads should be ignored too ... and heck, even Canon vs. Nikon, because I don't believe in Nikon and don't want anyone discussing why they do.

    My vote is not to censor certain topics while allowing others. Who's the judge? If this board is about photography only, then remove the Viewfinder and require all threads to stay on a strict photography theme. If it can be open to other topics, then allow what's legal to be discussed. The best, most perfect way to avoid such threads if one doesn't like them is to *not open them.*
    I agree that that is the best most perfect way to avoid one that has been started and that's what I do. I think a better solution is for us all to have the courtesy not to start them in the first place. No need for censorship if courtesy to each other breaks out.

    Maybe PJ is right and there needs to be a religouspoliticalreview.com.

  5. #30
    Senior Member OldSchool's Avatar
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    I voted "no"

    I've been participating on Internet discussion boards since the early '90s. I am, however, a newbie here.

    I voted "no" because I feel volume is low of these types of threads that some may feel are distracting to the central topic. Personally, I feel these off-topic threads give the particular i-community it's flavor. Further, because there is not yet the large traffic here, adding another forum may dilute participation (I can only sneak here so often while at work).

    I would have voted "yes" if the same off-topic subjects are reoccurring and hijacking other threads.

    BR,
    Tim
    Last edited by OldSchool; 03-10-2005 at 11:28 AM.
    Samurai #17 |;^\

  6. #31
    Sitting in a Leaky Dingy Michael Fanelli's Avatar
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    Re: Religious and Political Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Photo-John
    Because of a recent thread, I decided to post a poll about whether to create a new forum for religious and political discussions. A bunch of people told me that they didn't have any problem with the thread and we should keep things loose, and generaly, I agree. However, I have had some people make private comments about this type of discussion and I have a feeling that that might be a lot of people who aren't saying anything. I wouldn't want to be making quieter people uncomfortable.

    So please vote in the poll and feel free to discuss this subject here.

    Just to make it clear, I'm considering creating a new forum where we could move discussions when and if they start to become all about politics or religion. That way, we can keep the forum open to friendly discussion on things other than photography, but if a thread starts to go on and on, we can move it. One issue I've noticed is the busy thread post to the forums index and at the top of the foru page. First-time visitors who find the first and busiest thread is about religion or politics might be put off. I don't want that to happen. Even though I want ViewFinder to be open. I want to keep it cleaer that it's a photography forum - especially to new users. I think this is a good compromise.

    And just so you know, my vote was that we should create a new forum.

    Thanks!
    Rather than "Religion and Politics", why not a general "off topic" forum? That would allow people to vent all sorts of things and/or express their silly opinions (i.e., not agreeing with me :-)) all they want.
    "Every great decision creates ripples--like a huge boulder dropped in a lake. The ripples merge and rebound off the banks in unforseeable ways.

  7. #32
    Viewfinder and Off-Topic Co-Mod walterick's Avatar
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    Re: Religious and Political Discussion

    "I don't see or want anything changing the nature of the friendships and camaraderie of the PR bunch."

    Exactly. I love all you guys even though some of you don't see things the way I do! LOL I would easily give up poly/rel threads if it meant saving the integrity of the place.

    Though I may into withdrawal afterward...

    In the end, its all about relationships. If we can get along, argue in peace, be passionate and LOUD in one thread and then praise the bejesus (sic) out of the same person for their photography in the next thread, that's what integrity and love are all about. I think we do that, I love to argue about religion and politics ans there is still not a single person up here I would not love to shake hands with.

    We should have a "share the love" forum to counterbalance our debate forum

    Rick
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  8. #33
    Princess of the OT adina's Avatar
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    Re: Religious and Political Discussion

    I vote no.

    I thought Viewfinder was off topic? Kind of a general forum? So a new one would be off topic from the off topics?

    Also, if you notice, the majority of the posts in political/religious forums are from the same people. I think another forum would be, as Rick mentioned, just a few current members. But I think it would also attract people looking to rile things up, as was also mentioned.

    I think as long as everyone stays civil, things are fine. Ignore it if you don't want to see it, really, compared to the number of new threads posted, the political/religion thread are rare.

    adina
    I sleep, but I don't rest.

  9. #34
    Liz
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    Moderator Emeritus Liz's Avatar
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    Lightbulb Re: Religious and Political Discussion

    Another thought I had. Maybe I think too much.

    Maybe we should think of another title for the forum. Like "Beyond OT" or "Challenging Topics" or "OT Continued" or "Debates and Beyond" or "On the Edge" or "Whatever." Whatever.

    Since there are volatile discussions that don't necessarily include religion or politics, you might want to leave it more open. Besides, I think "Religion & Politics" is an invitation.

    Have a good day everyone - I'm supposed to be working.

    Liz

    Quote Originally Posted by Photo-John
    Because of a recent thread, I decided to post a poll about whether to create a new forum for religious and political discussions. A bunch of people told me that they didn't have any problem with the thread and we should keep things loose, and generaly, I agree. However, I have had some people make private comments about this type of discussion and I have a feeling that that might be a lot of people who aren't saying anything. I wouldn't want to be making quieter people uncomfortable.

    So please vote in the poll and feel free to discuss this subject here.

    Just to make it clear, I'm considering creating a new forum where we could move discussions when and if they start to become all about politics or religion. That way, we can keep the forum open to friendly discussion on things other than photography, but if a thread starts to go on and on, we can move it. One issue I've noticed is the busy thread post to the forums index and at the top of the foru page. First-time visitors who find the first and busiest thread is about religion or politics might be put off. I don't want that to happen. Even though I want ViewFinder to be open. I want to keep it cleaer that it's a photography forum - especially to new users. I think this is a good compromise.

    And just so you know, my vote was that we should create a new forum.

    Thanks!

  10. #35
    Princess of the OT adina's Avatar
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    Re: Religious and Political Discussion

    I'm also supposed to be working. But it's dull and I just can't get into it. Perhaps I'll start a religious/political discussion

    I sleep, but I don't rest.

  11. #36
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    Re: Religious and Political Discussion

    I'm new here, but I'm not new to message boards.

    I've seen plenty of good messege boards tank over politics and religion.

    I voted yes because of what I've seen.
    Jupiter,
    god of olympus

  12. #37
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    Re: Religious and Political Discussion

    Interesting there have been 258 views of this thread, yes there will be a few times from some, but there have been only 50 votes in total, what does that show. Disinterest.

    I voted no, specifically for the way you are thinking of setting it up. There should be moderators if you do setup another forum for that and if not, then it won't be somewhere I would frequent that often, might look at the list of threads and make a decision from that.

    What has kept me here in these forums, is the structure, friendliness and the way the forums have been moderatored. On the occassions there have been any problems and there hasn't been many of them, those problems have been sorted very quickly. Again why I like participating in these forums.

    Just my thoughts.

  13. #38
    Captain of the Ship Photo-John's Avatar
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    Re: Religious and Political Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Liz
    Maybe we should think of another title for the forum. Like "Beyond OT" or "Challenging Topics" or "OT Continued" or "Debates and Beyond" or "On the Edge" or "Whatever." Whatever.

    Since there are volatile discussions that don't necessarily include religion or politics, you might want to leave it more open. Besides, I think "Religion & Politics" is an invitation.
    Good ideas, Liz.
    Photo-John

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  14. #39
    Sleep is optional Sebastian's Avatar
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    Re: Religious and Political Discussion

    I think that for the most part, these discussions have been civil, as if adults were participating. I don't see a problem with them, and I don't see the need to move them to another forum. If it ever becomes something I don't want to see around, I will let you know. My fear is that in another forum people might see it as an excuse to not be so civil, and I don't think that would be a good idea. These forums foster discussion and often friendships, this potential forum might be viewed as a no-holds-barred arena, and that doesn't help the site, let them go somewhere else if they want that.

    I vote no.
    -Seb

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  15. #40
    News & Rum-or-ator opus's Avatar
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    Re: Religious and Political Discussion

    Peter, if you periodically check "who's online" at any given point, you'll see maybe three to eight users looking at threads, a guest or two, and perhaps twenty or more Google Spiders. Each hit of a google spider counts as a "view" of the thread. So that really skews the real picture of who's actually looking.

    Whatever is decided I'll be OK with. If a new forum is created, I'll still see any active discussions going on at all times, because I pretty much only view this site using "new posts" anyway. And again, I may or may not ignore them. I don't love them, but they don't bother me either.
    Drink Coffee. Do stupid things faster with more energy.


  16. #41
    is back jar_e's Avatar
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    Re: Religious and Political Discussion

    I voted yes. Though I do think that the main purpose of this site should be photography, as somebody pointed out in an above post, learning another posters religious/political point of views may strengthen or add another perspective to their work. On the same hand, I've been involved in plenty of forums and boards in my life time (all 17 years of it!) where political and relgious discussion destroy the boards and, ultimately, ruin intrest in the site. Regardless, I still voted yes. I believe that you can have an affective off topic board (which Viewfinder is somewhat I guess, but it seems more like a "I ordered ___this___ camera" or "Here's new pics from my new lens". I don't mind these at all, it just though seems what Viewfinder has turned into (atleast since I've been here)).
    Though checking the vote right now, it's a little on the yes side, I still entrust my power to PJ and Lara, as we all should, cause, no matter what the poll is, they have the power to do as they please. I must add that in some debates, things are said which shouldn't be, and nine times out of ten, people don't mean. If a new, even more OT forum is created, whoever goes in there, better go in there with a calloused mind. People may offend you, people may disagree with you, but if your too sensitive to that, then you probably should stay away from that forum (if it begins). Though it may turn into a touchy subject, I believe it can be achieved with a few set rules and a set idea of what will/will not happen in such a thread. And please, please, don't let this turn into a flaming forum. That, is the worst thing that could happen.

    Just my two cents,

    Jared

  17. #42
    has-been... another view's Avatar
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    Re: Religious and Political Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Flashram_Peter_AUS
    Interesting there have been 258 views of this thread, yes there will be a few times from some, but there have been only 50 votes in total, what does that show. Disinterest.
    I only voted once (even though Chicago's motto used to be "Vote early, vote often";) ), but this is the fourth or fifth time I've read this thread's new messages. Those repeat views add up too...

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