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  1. #1
    Senior Member racingpinarello's Avatar
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    How much are you willing to sacrafice/spend on photography?

    During the day I work as an International Treasury Manager for a large multi-national company (www.kineticsgroup.com) where we are about to go public. Great opportunity, financially for me.

    But, then today, I got a call from a advertising firm and they are sending my portfolio to an art director for a lifestyle/commercial shoot in Argentina. The saw my portfolio on PDN and liked my lifestyle images. The shoot would have all expenses paid, $500/day fee if I get the job. Plus, if they choose the photos the images are licensed for $20,000, where I get 50%.

    The question? How much would you be willing to sacrafice your day job to reach a photographic goal? I spend so much time doing photography and it takes away from business, cycling, etc.

    I can re-phrase the question as, "how much time are you willing to dedicate to photography during a week?" How do you balance everything?

    Loren
    Loren Crannell
    LC Photography
    Visit My Website

    * Any photographer worth his salt has 10,000 bad negatives under his belt. - Ansel Adams

  2. #2
    Senior Member racingpinarello's Avatar
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    Clarification

    The shoot is only three days, but with travel it would be a week away from work. I just started my job this week so I don't have any vacation time so it would dramatically affect my job. Not an easy decision since sucess in both worlds is very important to me.
    Loren Crannell
    LC Photography
    Visit My Website

    * Any photographer worth his salt has 10,000 bad negatives under his belt. - Ansel Adams

  3. #3
    has-been... another view's Avatar
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    Decisions, decisions. As long as the shoot is really what it's supposed to be (signed contract, you know they pay their bills, etc) then go for it!!

    I only have one question - do you need an assistant?

    Congrads, sounds like a great opportunity. Didn't know you had a gallery on PDN - great!

  4. #4
    don't tase me, bro! Asylum Steve's Avatar
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    In my opinion VERY risky, Loren...

    First of all, congrats on both the new job situation as well as the response to your work.

    I know it's easy to get "swept off your feet" by all the buzz about this project in Argentina, but you really need to take a VERY close look at the facts, the risks involved, and especially the big picture regarding your new job.

    Without knowing much much more about the agency and client involved, I'd say the risks of this job far outweigh the potential benefits, POTENTIAL being the key word here.

    First of all, this looks suspisiously like what's called a SPEC job, meaning you won't get any licensing fees unless they actually use a certain amount of images. That $10,000 number, which I know seems like a king's ransom, may actually be an inflated figure thrown out there with a lot of conditions attached.

    Secondly, $500 for a day rate (depending on usage for the photos) really is pretty low. The way this money would be distributed to you is also a huge factor. "All expenses paid" is extremely vague. Do you get reimbursed? Are you on a per diem budget? What manner of transportation and accommodations are they providing?

    This DREAM JOB can turn ugly in a hurry if you find yourself over there with no money, working long difficult hours just on the chance they'll use your work, staying in a crappy hotel in a bad neighborhood, and the very real posibility that your client may not want to even pay you ANYTHING if they don't like the work, or RIP YOU OFF if they do...

    Then consider the task of negotiating money, straightening out artistic and business problems, and having legal recourse with a company a continent away...

    And this is not even taking into account how this time away so soon might jepardize your new job, which I assume needs to be the financial cornerstone of your life (at least for now).

    Ok, I'm not trying to be a killjoy. If it were me, I'd go in a heartbeat. But then I have nothing to lose.

    For all I know, you can juggle all this stuff, have a great time in SA, and get paid a lot for what may well be a real fun gig. I'm not even sure you're asking for advice about this (are you???), but maybe just want to know our feelings in general.

    Anyway, as a friend I felt I need to add my two cents....

    Quote Originally Posted by racingpinarello
    During the day I work as an International Treasury Manager for a large multi-national company (www.kineticsgroup.com) where we are about to go public. Great opportunity, financially for me.

    But, then today, I got a call from a advertising firm and they are sending my portfolio to an art director for a lifestyle/commercial shoot in Argentina. The saw my portfolio on PDN and liked my lifestyle images. The shoot would have all expenses paid, $500/day fee if I get the job. Plus, if they choose the photos the images are licensed for $20,000, where I get 50%.

    The question? How much would you be willing to sacrafice your day job to reach a photographic goal? I spend so much time doing photography and it takes away from business, cycling, etc.

    I can re-phrase the question as, "how much time are you willing to dedicate to photography during a week?" How do you balance everything?

    Loren
    "Riding along on a carousel...tryin' to catch up to you..."

    -Steve
    Studio & Lighting - Photography As Art Forum Moderator

    Running the Photo Asylum, Asylum Steve's blogged brain pipes...
    www.stevenpaulhlavac.com
    www.photoasylum.com

  5. #5
    Senior Member racingpinarello's Avatar
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    good points...

    I will keep those in mind as I ponder about this opportunity. www.OnRequestImages.com is the online portal, and when I looked at the board and members it seems legit, but who knows. I was contacted via phone by the director of photography. The client is in Chicago, but wants to shoot in Argentina.

    At the same time I don't have any images on that site, and maybe it's a way to get my images on the site. So, you raise more questions for me, which is good.

    I cannot give up my new role as Treasury Manager for any temporary photographic dream. As we all know, even the best photographers don't make money all of the time. I appreciate your advice, well taken, and I will make sure to analyze this potential job further.

    Thanks for the advice.

    Loren
    Loren Crannell
    LC Photography
    Visit My Website

    * Any photographer worth his salt has 10,000 bad negatives under his belt. - Ansel Adams

  6. #6
    Liz
    Liz is offline
    Moderator Emeritus Liz's Avatar
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    Red face Now THAT is the million dollar decision!

    I'm glad I don't have to make your decision. The opportunity is certainly an affirmation of your excellent work, Loren. However, as Steve said, it's a great risk. I think if you have a job you are happy with, then that should be the determining factor; how your absence will affect your future. Stability is so important today.

    A friend once said to me "when you have to make a decision between one action and another, always look for a 3rd alternative" Is it possible to ask for a postponement? Or ask to have it in Chicago or somewhere in the States?

    I think Steve's post is excellent. He did a great job of clarifying what the most important elements and ramifications are and/or could be.

    I'll be thinking of you and saying a prayer that whatever the ultimate decision, that it is the right one for you, and you feel confident and at peace with it. Keep us updated.

    Thanks for sharing with your friends here.

    Liz

    Quote Originally Posted by Asylum Steve
    First of all, congrats on both the new job situation as well as the response to your work.

    I know it's easy to get "swept off your feet" by all the buzz about this project in Argentina, but you really need to take a VERY close look at the facts, the risks involved, and especially the big picture regarding your new job.

    Without knowing much much more about the agency and client involved, I'd say the risks of this job far outweigh the potential benefits, POTENTIAL being the key word here.

    First of all, this looks suspisiously like what's called a SPEC job, meaning you won't get any licensing fees unless they actually use a certain amount of images. That $10,000 number, which I know seems like a king's ransom, may actually be an inflated figure thrown out there with a lot of conditions attached.

    Secondly, $500 for a day rate (depending on usage for the photos) really is pretty low. The way this money would be distributed to you is also a huge factor. "All expenses paid" is extremely vague. Do you get reimbursed? Are you on a per diem budget? What manner of transportation and accommodations are they providing?

    This DREAM JOB can turn ugly in a hurry if you find yourself over there with no money, working long difficult hours just on the chance they'll use your work, staying in a crappy hotel in a bad neighborhood, and the very real posibility that your client may not want to even pay you ANYTHING if they don't like the work, or RIP YOU OFF if they do...

    Then consider the task of negotiating money, straightening out artistic and business problems, and having legal recourse with a company a continent away...

    And this is not even taking into account how this time away so soon might jepardize your new job, which I assume needs to be the financial cornerstone of your life (at least for now).

    Ok, I'm not trying to be a killjoy. If it were me, I'd go in a heartbeat. But then I have nothing to lose.

    For all I know, you can juggle all this stuff, have a great time in SA, and get paid a lot for what may well be a real fun gig. I'm not even sure you're asking for advice about this (are you???), but maybe just want to know our feelings in general.

    Anyway, as a friend I felt I need to add my two cents....

  7. #7
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    Loren,

    I think it is great that you have been offered this job, but like Steve, I would investigate it much further than you have mentioned in your original post. The current new job you have I think is more important to you at present, as you are finding your feet, positioning your expertise to the company, showing your potential and the reason they hired you in the first place.

    You have stated that your photography is taking away from business, cycling etc so, if this becomes bigger than Ben Hur, what effect is it going to have on you. Hey I would love my photography to be as good as yours and others here and get some opportunities to earn some money from a craft I am learning, but having been unable to work for 2 years now, stability is very important to me and I think I read the same thing in your post about stability of job.

    Have you thought about discussing it with someone at your new work and sounding out your position about it, 1 week off work isn't going to cause that much concern would it, especially if it costs them nothing. But then, they might read that as being more your interests than working for them. It is a really Catch 22 isn't it.

    I know you will do what you think is right, but remember, opportunities don't present themselves every day do they.

  8. #8
    Hardcore...Nikon Speed's Avatar
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    Steve Has Nailed It

    Quote Originally Posted by Asylum Steve
    First of all, congrats on both the new job situation as well as the response to your work.

    I know it's easy to get "swept off your feet" by all the buzz about this project in Argentina, but you really need to take a VERY close look at the facts, the risks involved, and especially the big picture regarding your new job.

    Without knowing much much more about the agency and client involved, I'd say the risks of this job far outweigh the potential benefits, POTENTIAL being the key word here.

    First of all, this looks suspisiously like what's called a SPEC job, meaning you won't get any licensing fees unless they actually use a certain amount of images. That $10,000 number, which I know seems like a king's ransom, may actually be an inflated figure thrown out there with a lot of conditions attached.

    Secondly, $500 for a day rate (depending on usage for the photos) really is pretty low. The way this money would be distributed to you is also a huge factor. "All expenses paid" is extremely vague. Do you get reimbursed? Are you on a per diem budget? What manner of transportation and accommodations are they providing?

    This DREAM JOB can turn ugly in a hurry if you find yourself over there with no money, working long difficult hours just on the chance they'll use your work, staying in a crappy hotel in a bad neighborhood, and the very real posibility that your client may not want to even pay you ANYTHING if they don't like the work, or RIP YOU OFF if they do...

    Then consider the task of negotiating money, straightening out artistic and business problems, and having legal recourse with a company a continent away...

    And this is not even taking into account how this time away so soon might jepardize your new job, which I assume needs to be the financial cornerstone of your life (at least for now).

    Ok, I'm not trying to be a killjoy. If it were me, I'd go in a heartbeat. But then I have nothing to lose.

    For all I know, you can juggle all this stuff, have a great time in SA, and get paid a lot for what may well be a real fun gig. I'm not even sure you're asking for advice about this (are you???), but maybe just want to know our feelings in general.

    Anyway, as a friend I felt I need to add my two cents....

    Wouldn't we all love to have an opportunity like that! BUT, can you afford to risk your "day" job for a temporary one. If it all works out as promised, you will make a bundle of cash. But when would your next payday be? Are you ready to go full time into photography?

    Lots of opportunity, lots of questions, and I'm thankful I don't have to make that decision. Keep us posted. We're behind you 100% whatever you decide!
    Nikon Samurai # 1


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  9. #9
    Senior Member racingpinarello's Avatar
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    Thanks Everybody

    I wanted to say thanks for the advice and the objective point of view. Even though the offer and the payment details appear to be "legit", there is no way I could go ahead and do this job.

    It just came at a point where I was going to switch my secondary/third genre to something like cycling and lifestyle, instead of fashion. I just don't have much time to shoot anymore (frustrating), and when you are in a rat race you look at this type of offer with diamonds in the eyes. Silicon Valley is something else. With all of the layoffs in the past two years, companies do a the same with less people.

    Anyhow, hopefully they will have other opportunities for me, or where I can plan my vacation around it.

    Thanks again,
    Loren
    Loren Crannell
    LC Photography
    Visit My Website

    * Any photographer worth his salt has 10,000 bad negatives under his belt. - Ansel Adams

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