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  1. #1
    Moderator of Critiques/Hearder of Cats mtbbrian's Avatar
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    Post Digital vs Colldion.. No Contest!

    As most of you know, my friend from college is doing colldion and ambrotypes.
    He recently emailed me two portraits he did using his Nikon D2H and one that he took using the ambrotype process. So I thought I'd share them with you.

    Both are good photographs, but the ambrotype shows an incredible amount of character and has a quality of light that is unreal.
    He has a small studio set up in his garage, I hope I can post some photographs of him making a photograph soon. It is quite a process.
    You can check out more of his latest images at his site.
    http://www.collodion.com

    Here are a few of his words from an email exchange we had recently about his work.
    ""It seems that Collodion has its own story to tell about people. I'm beginning to grasp the concept of what I am doing. It's about social identity and individual existence - the process refines what I "see" in the sitters I photograph. The people in my photographs have more presence - more being, than they would have if you met them in everyday life. I'm not simply a social observer, but a kind of existential diagnostician.""
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Digital vs Colldion.. No Contest!-jmcqueen.jpg  
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  2. #2
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    The one on the right to me is underexposed and he has evil eyes (just my opinion). Existential diagnostician (certainly see that the person is in college with words like this).

    Not my type of photo, I love musician stuff, but not the one on the right. I have a Sax, 2 Trumpets, 1 Clarinet, 1 Flute, 2 Electronic Keyboards, so my comments have nothing to do with musicians, just photogrpahy.

  3. #3
    Junior Member qjphoto's Avatar
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    Wet Plate Collodion Work & My Thoughts About Photography

    Greetings,

    Thanks for posting those images Brian. I felt that I should contribute to the forum since my photos are posted here and there may be questions about them or the process (which I would be happy to answer).

    Peter, I can appreciate your opinion about the Collodion image. I would respond to your comments this way; there are several ways to critique photographs, you selected to view the Collodion photo from a technical perspective (which is fine) and added a comment about the eyes, a comment coming from an interpretive view (also good). I critique images in a different or more formal way. I use what Terry Barnett talks about in his book, “Criticizing Photographs”:

    1. Describe what you see (talk about formal elements and factual content).
    2. Interpret what you see (read between the lines).
    3. Evaluate what you see (give weight to what’s important to you in the image).
    4. Theorize about what you see (everything is valid here – conjecture, hypothesize, et al).

    To me, photographs are MUCH more than what we are taught about them. Photographs are impressions of ideas, thoughts and concerns I have. There are many fundamental and important elements to photography but subject selection is the most important to me. Most photographers start out emulating something they have seen others do. In fact, we are taught all the technical things in school about photography but we are never told where to point the camera. I believe you have to be passionate about what you photograph, so passionate that you are willing to make a lot of poor photographs (failures) and stick with it. It has to be accessible and you have to grow and learn from it. If you do that, you’ll contribute to your community and grow immensely as a photographer and human being.

    I hope that adds to the forum. Keep shooting and shoot from the heart. I appreciate your comments, thoughts and questions.

    Post Script: An “existential diagnostician” can also be called a person who explores the reality of people’s existence. Another word, physiognomy, describes, very well, what I believe photographers try to do when making portraits.
    Regards,
    Quinn Jacobson
    www.collodion.com

  4. #4
    Wisconsin Cheesehead Spike's Avatar
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    Hmmmm

    Well, the colldion / ambrotype image (I have no idea what that is) certainly is different, it's interesting. Rather harsh due to the high contrast. Have any "gentler" colldion images to share? I'm thinking more evenly lit or with a softer feel to them.

    Spike

    Quote Originally Posted by mtbbrian
    As most of you know, my friend from college is doing colldion and ambrotypes.
    He recently emailed me two portraits he did using his Nikon D2H and one that he took using the ambrotype process. So I thought I'd share them with you.

    Both are good photographs, but the ambrotype shows an incredible amount of character and has a quality of light that is unreal.
    He has a small studio set up in his garage, I hope I can post some photographs of him making a photograph soon. It is quite a process.
    You can check out more of his latest images at his site.
    http://www.collodion.com

    Here are a few of his words from an email exchange we had recently about his work.
    ""It seems that Collodion has its own story to tell about people. I'm beginning to grasp the concept of what I am doing. It's about social identity and individual existence - the process refines what I "see" in the sitters I photograph. The people in my photographs have more presence - more being, than they would have if you met them in everyday life. I'm not simply a social observer, but a kind of existential diagnostician.""

  5. #5
    mjm
    mjm is offline
    that guy.
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    The one on the right to me is underexposed and he has evil eyes
    that is exactly what i see as well.

    looking at the site, all the photos make the people look demonic (must be the eyes).

  6. #6
    Wisconsin Cheesehead Spike's Avatar
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    Nevermind, found your link

    Oops, I just noticed the link to your work, Quinn. I see some of the photos have more contrast than others. That's what I figured, you must be able to create various moods depending on what you're aiming for.

    Spike

    Quote Originally Posted by Spike
    Have any "gentler" colldion images to share? I'm thinking more evenly lit or with a softer feel to them.

    Spike

  7. #7
    shake it like a polaroid picture berrywise's Avatar
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    I don't follow

    How does this form of photography create something you couldn't do with digital? From your post you seem to describe your photography as one where the medium doesn't matter but the connection to the subject does.

    I'm also intruiged by your method of critiquing photographs, What would you say (critique) about the image that was posted? Sometimes hearing what the photographer has to say about their own photographs can open the eyes of others.

  8. #8
    Sleep is optional Sebastian's Avatar
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    Brian,

    This is not about Digital vs. whatever at all, the second image is better because of framing, lighting and contrast, stuff that can be done with any medium. Two different settings, two different looks, and two different proceses, no way to compare them whatsoever.

    Sure, there is a certain quality to the work that can not be reproduced by other processes, but to say that it's better than those is missing the point, IMO.

    GJphoto,

    Welcome. I think the process that you use and the way it forces you to approach and view your subjects will let you provide a very unique viewpoint on this site. Looking forward to seeing and reading more form you.

    Take care guys!
    -Seb

    My website

    (Please don't edit and repost my images without my permission. Thank you)

    How to tell the most experienced shooter in a group? They have the least amount of toys on them.

  9. #9
    Just a Member Chunk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flashram_Peter_AUS
    The one on the right to me is underexposed and he has evil eyes (just my opinion). Existential diagnostician (certainly see that the person is in college with words like this).

    Not my type of photo, I love musician stuff, but not the one on the right. I have a Sax, 2 Trumpets, 1 Clarinet, 1 Flute, 2 Electronic Keyboards, so my comments have nothing to do with musicians, just photogrpahy.
    Interesting comment about the eyes. I'm not sure of this process but many of the real old processes were not only very narrow of latitude as this appears to be but also very slow necessetating even bracing peoples body parts for the needed long exposures. Tell someone "Now don't move. And don't blink" and watch what happens to their body and to their face and eyes. I think most folks will open their eys a little wider and get a look of concentration on their face. You see it in old photos of many different slow processes.
    I like in the shot how the face is in good focus while some parts like arms are blurred a bit.
    I think that what is often thought of as good quality of light in many old photos is also due to the softness of the old lenses.
    This is certainly an interesting way to shoot protraits and the shooter is obviously talented. I'm not sure the comparison would be lopsided if as much care was put into the colored portrait here as the other.

  10. #10
    Moderator of Critiques/Hearder of Cats mtbbrian's Avatar
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    No, not at all...

    Not at all Seb..
    My intent was to show the differences between the two process', one from the 21th Century process and one the 19th Century process.
    I also wanted to show a different process, one that is done by a handful of people worldwide.

    I only titled it such, because the color image was shot with a digital camera.

    Brian
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    “A great photograph is one that fully expresses what one feels, in the deepest sense, about what is being photographed, and is, thereby, a true manifestation of what one feels about life in its entirety...” - Ansel Adams

    "Photography Is An Act Of Life" - Maine 2006

  11. #11
    Moderator of Critiques/Hearder of Cats mtbbrian's Avatar
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    Chunk,
    This process is one of those "real old process", it dates back to about 1850 to 1880 something. Basically, you coat a sheet of glass with light sensative chemicals and place the coated sheet of glass, while it is still wet and dripping into a film holder. The exposure times are usually a few seconds long, if you noticed in the color photograph there is a brace behind that you would help steady the person. The ASA for film like this, is "about" .25.
    My friend can tell you a whole about this than I can, but if you did a search on colldion, wet plate or ambrotype, you'd get a good feel for it too.
    Brian
    My "Personal" Photography Website...
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    See more of my photography here...

    “A great photograph is one that fully expresses what one feels, in the deepest sense, about what is being photographed, and is, thereby, a true manifestation of what one feels about life in its entirety...” - Ansel Adams

    "Photography Is An Act Of Life" - Maine 2006

  12. #12
    don't tase me, bro! Asylum Steve's Avatar
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    Couple of quick comments...

    Welcome to the forums, Quinn...

    I'm a long time film shooter (now mostly digital) that has played some with alternative and "early" photo processes over the years. BTW, William Crawford's The Keepers of Light has been one of my favorite photo books since the it came out in the late 70's...

    I enjoy seeing (and discussing) the contrast between to the two images Brian posted. I can't help but notice, though, that the ambrotype here IMO is a relatively poor result compared to what you have on your web site. Those images are phenominal and possess a quality that is amazingly close to the original period photos.

    I agree that this process produces a rather haunting effect, but having seen much work done in this style, it comes as no surprise to me. Still, I find it a bit depressing after a while, which is why I can only look at so many Civil War era images.

    But that's neither here nor there. My tastes simply runs more towards blue printing and gum printing, that's all.

    One thing you can probably confirm is that the process becomes paramount when working this way. That is something I completely understand, and (again IMO) whether you can replicate this effect through digital means is a moot point.

    Results aside, it's very much a question of HOW you create the image, and the digital methods will in no way be like the physical and tactile qualities of the wet plate technique.

    Thanks for sharing a very different kind of image making!
    "Riding along on a carousel...tryin' to catch up to you..."

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    Studio & Lighting - Photography As Art Forum Moderator

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  13. #13
    Sleep is optional Sebastian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtbbrian
    Not at all Seb..
    My intent was to show the differences between the two process', one from the 21th Century process and one the 19th Century process.
    I also wanted to show a different process, one that is done by a handful of people worldwide.

    I only titled it such, because the color image was shot with a digital camera.

    Brian
    I understand...
    -Seb

    My website

    (Please don't edit and repost my images without my permission. Thank you)

    How to tell the most experienced shooter in a group? They have the least amount of toys on them.

  14. #14
    Senior Member
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    Well now I have a much better understanding of the image now it has been explained a little more. As this is the Viewfinder Forum and not the Critiqueing Forum I wasn't Critiqueing the photo at all, I was commenting on what I visually saw when first looking at the images.

    Still looks haunting though. I think I remember seeing these types of photos of "Dead People", late 1800's, probably what triggered off my ageing memories of things.

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