2009 Camera Of The Year?

[somnambulant]

Is this Sleepwalker Wesley? if so, good to see you here

Yep, it's me! I mean, I haven't used either camera aside from firing off a few snapshots in my local camera shop, but I'm just surprised since once the GF1 hit the shelves everyone (including you, I thought) kind of said, "see, this is what the E-P1 should have been."

That said, I think the Nikon SLRs with the crazy ISO settings should probably be taking the award, overall, so the battle for the m4/3 crown is probably moot.

[EOSThree]

Yep, it's me! I mean, I haven't used either camera aside from firing off a few snapshots in my local camera shop, but I'm just surprised since once the GF1 hit the shelves everyone (including you, I thought) kind of said, "see, this is what the E-P1 should have been."

That said, I think the Nikon SLRs with the crazy ISO settings should probably be taking the award, overall, so the battle for the m4/3 crown is probably moot.

That's my point, and it's based on a lot of research and messing about a couple of times with the cameras in the store too.

[Photo-John]

That's my point, and it's based on a lot of research and messing about a couple of times with the cameras in the store too.

Fair enough. I was looking at it more in terms of the photography public's initial reaction and the fact that the E-P1 was the first camera that really seemed to me to be fulfillling the Micro Four Thirds promise of being a real compact alternative to DSLRs. With that perspective, the E-P1 looks more important. But if we're talking about the better camera, then the GF1 is the one. I'm still not sure which way to look at it, though.

[EOSThree]

Fair enough. I was looking at it more in terms of the photography public's initial reaction and the fact that the E-P1 was the first camera that really seemed to me to be fulfillling the Micro Four Thirds promise of being a real compact alternative to DSLRs. With that perspective, the E-P1 looks more important. But if we're talking about the better camera, then the GF1 is the one. I'm still not sure which way to look at it, though.

I guess if you look at the camera of the year more as to it's importance rather than it's ability, then the E-P1 is the winner. I look at the whole package, importance and usability, and that's the GF1.

[OldClicker]

APS days numbered? I seriously doubt it.

First, I said that the days of APS sensors as predominant are numbered.

First they provide the ability for a camera maker to produce a lower cost camera, i.e. the vast majority of sales. I agree. The APS sensor will remain as the low cost (<$1k), new buyer solution for quite some time. Almost everyone I know who has bought a 'good' camera this past year has bought an APS or not Full Frame camera. The 'only' people I know personally who have bought a Full Frame camera in the past year either are buying their second or greater Full Frame or are working professional photographers. Last year is the past. One criteria of Camera of the Year could be pointing to the future.

Secondly. Full Frame cameras require serious glass to work up to even close to their potential. Most of those posting on this forum have serious - very serious glass. Those with >$1000 bodies generally have serious glass. Yes, their are few low cost good alternatives and eventually (like tomorrow!) a better lens will be needed. There goes money in thousand dollar plus increments. The economy won't support that as the major player for several years. Several years isn’t that far away.

Third. Full Frame sensors are by design lower yield than APS no matter how many you make! They are bigger! They are more complex to integrate into a camera and work reliably. And APS is bigger than a 4/3. Canon once said that an FF sensor camera could not be made with in body stabilization. A way was found.

Fourth. I hand a full frame Canon MkII to someone with a 70-200mm f/2.8 or even just a f/1.4 50mm that isn't prepared and they always comment on how big and heavy it is! The APS models don't ever illicit that commentary. A850 (FF)= 30oz. D700 (APS)= 35 oz. It ain’t the sensor.

APS has come a long way in a very short time. If all the manufacturers get smart and quit trying to win the pixel arms race they will have a long term winner and APS isn't going away any time soon! It may not get the continued development that other formats do, but it will be around. In other words, not the future? Not where the ‘wonders’ will come from? Not something that a Camera of the Year should foretell?

Remember, once upon a time 35mm was a passing fad! Once the post war production was shifted back to civilian priority, 2 1/4 x 2 1/4 would once again rule!! Right, that happened??

For some smaller is a lot better. I use both and like the big cameras. I will admit I have had an increasing relationship with APS sensor this past year but that is a processing issue. I can sure process those smaller files a lot quicker with a lot more efficient hardware than those monster files that some of the newer cameras are cranking out. Then choose the ‘cropped’ mode, but the point is – you would have a choice for every shot.

I had some images on the side of semi-trailers that came off a 12 mp FF Nikon this past year. But also some that came off an 8mp Canon. At normal viewing distance . . . well my hairdresser doesn't even know

I certainly have no inside info and really don’t have a feel on how video will influence sensor size. But when we start seeing <$1500 FF bodies, I think they will become the predominant sensor for the $1k to $3k market. If I was in that market (and I’m far from it), I would have an FF.

TF

[Greg McCary]

I guess right now I am more leaning to the EP-1. I know it is very popular and like Liz for people looking for lighter with excellent quality that is the way to go. I know I will probably be getting a m4/3rd camera sooner or later.

[Liz]

I guess right now I am more leaning to the EP-1. I know it is very popular and like Liz for people looking for lighter with excellent quality that is the way to go. I know I will probably be getting a m4/3rd camera sooner or later.

I did a lot of research before deciding on the EP1 since I was investing in a system, not just a camera. From what I have read recently the EP1 does better with IQ and color rendition straight out of camera than the GF1. HOWEVER, having said that, the GF1 does better than the EP1 when using RAW. Since I prefer doing straight out of camera because I don't like to sit at the computer, the EP1 works better for me. I post-process most of my shots, but not to the degree I would have to with RAW. I don't have enough time for photography, and I try to get the best I can right out of the camera. I would rather spend more time this way than post-processing.

Also, the EP1 is very customizable with many options, although you have to work at finding them all! It's quite a learning curve and I'm not there yet! I don't know how that compares with the Panasonic M4/3's.

I think both the EP1 and GF1 (and GH1) are all fine cameras with different features, and it probably boils down to personal preference. Just my opinion.

Liz

[ken1953]

It is with great pride (and some sadness, since they seem to get overlooked in these polls) that I nominate the Pentax K-7 and the K-X series cameras. Admittedly, I'm not the technician like most of you and am voting simply on loyalty. But what I've read and seen of these two series, they easily compete for top honors, IMHO. So from this functional illiterate...the K-7 #1...K-X #2.

Little Ol' Pentax Forum Moderator and Supporter, Me

[Photo-John]

Thanks for being our Pentax advocate, Ken

[SmartWombat]

I haven't got my hands on an E-P2 yet, but I'm kicking myself for buying the E-P1.
I like it, but the one thing that would have swayed is the viewfinder and now the E-P2 solves that problem I'm annoyed.
Early adopters always suffer, and I'm not impressed that I got suckered into buying the E-P1.

I would say the E-P2 should get it over the E-P1.
Provided there are no quality/speed compromises in adding the EVF.

[Loupey]

As far as digital SLRs, I think the three most revolutionary features that have sprung up recently are 1) live view, 2) video capability, and 3) extremely high ISO capability. Of these three, I think the 3rd one became readily available this year. So I think whatever brand/model that first introduced that feature would be the choice for this year.

[drg]

I'll throw in a little more food for thought and probably stir another hornet's nest or two.

Last year was the year of the DSLR. This year, 2009, needs to be the year of something else like Micro 4/3rds or better video or the like.

The advent of Nikon using the FX or full frame sensor and their bringing serious high ISO to the table in 2008 just about took the prize for me. Their current 24+ MP monster is just a bigger sensor in an otherwise fine body and of course it allows for even crazier exposure settings.

Canon was no slouch last year either with the EOS 5D II. The feature set including HD capability for the price was a winning combo that I wish that they had not called a version 'II'.

I added my two cents about the Canon EOS 7D earlier and won't add more other than to say I was very happy to see that AF system!

This could just be called the year of the DSLR II for the wide variety of price and feature options from cameras that hold your hand in making photos, to instruction guides, to, of course, facial recognition. Facial recognition/detection is an underrated feature I believe for almost any photographer or skill level. Combined with tracking focus, (in many and various labeled forms) whether or not Aunt Ester or little cousin Jeff wiggle around you are probably going to get a really well focused and exposed shot.

A lot of 2009's improvements are incremental for many manufacturer's or are budget driven as in Sony's somewhat stripped down full frame a850 . Nikon got a bigger sensor. Olympus tweaked up the image quality and features of their DSLR cameras. Canon gave us a new version of the dRebel. You know Canon is going to sell millions more of this venerable model before all is said and done.

Nikon introduced a couple of models that are new in the D3000 and D5000. There is a choice of with or without video, live view, tilt screen and a few other difference including sensor size. The D3000 is an entry level camera and the D5000 is not. One replaces perhaps Nikon's best selling camera and the controls are laid out slightly differently. User friendly cameras as I mentioned before seem to be the trend in 2009 and Nikon offers up two in these models.

In camera processing and effects, new/more connections from HDMI to faster USB interfaces, support for various cropping formats, wider resolution settings and of course better video capability alongside live view all implemented and augmented by technology gains are the hallmarks of 2009's contenders, DSLR or not!

With major Full Frame cameras last year, two from Nikon (d3 and d700) and the EOS 5D II, it is interesting to note that the 2008 Camera of the Year poll was led by the Nikon D90.

Hmmm . . . still not a clear winner in my mind for 2009.

[Shebang]

Thanks, all, for the 4/3 info. Getting back to the porch now...

[drg]

Is there a poll yet?

[Photo-John]

Is there a poll yet?

Not yet. It's on the list of things to do today, though. I think we've got enough opinions in this thread that I can make a meaningful list of cameras. Stay tuned...

[daq7]

The g11 is very nice price performance, but I don't know if you guys are looking only at the very high end.

[Photo-John]

The g11 is very nice price performance, but I don't know if you guys are looking only at the very high end.

Personally, I'm looking for cameras that are game-changers. I think the G11 is a nice camera and I like the Canon backed off on the resolution. But I'm not seeing it as that significant - especially not when compared to the Micro Four Thirds cameras. And for me, the Canon S90 is a bigger deal since it offers the same excellent image quality and most of the functionality of the G11 but in a pocket-sized package.

[Photo-John]

The 2009 Camera Of The Year Poll is up.

Vote For 2009 Camera Of The Year >>

I was wondering if I might be neglecting the point-and-shoots. I was thinking maybe the Canon S90 should be on there. It brings high-quality imaging to the pocket camera. Is it worthy? How about the Leica X1? I decided to leave the Panasonic GH1 off the list since it's really just a G1 with HD video and a better kit lens. Should I include it? Help me get this poll right before I really put it out there and push for votes.

Thanks!

[Anbesol]

I picked the A850, perhaps my bias and familiarity as its my system. Its price point brought full frame bodies into a wider market area, and I think put momentum in the ongoing move towards cheaper full frame bodies.

I, like clicker also think that APS bodies as a predominance will soon be gone.

[OldClicker]

I picked the A850, perhaps my bias and familiarity as its my system. Its price point brought full frame bodies into a wider market area, and I think put momentum in the ongoing move towards cheaper full frame bodies.

I, like clicker also think that APS bodies as a predominance will soon be gone.

And (going way, way out on a limb) the camera showing the future of those APS sensors is here now - the 2010 Camera of the Year - Samsung NX10 featuring APS-C with EVF and a mount for smaller lenses. - TF

[photophorous]

Up until this year, the only reasonable digital camera option for an enthusiast or professional photographer has been an SLR, with all of it's wonderful versatility and compromise. Now, for certain people with certain needs, there are better choices.

I think the Panasonic and Olympus micro-4/3rds cameras are the most revolutionary cameras on the list. The others are all just continuing on a path that was started a long time ago. Didn't we all expect sensors to get more sensitive, pixel count and frame rates to increase, and better autofocus tracking? That's been a common trend for a long time. The micro-4/3rds cameras have set out on a different course.

But I also agree with Greg that the Leica M9 should be on this list. It's not the first digital rangefinder, but it's the first one that's full frame and in my opinion full frame means more on a rangefinder than it does on a dSLR. Why? Because there are no zoom lenses for rangefinders. RF shooters have invested time in learning a 50mm, a 35mm or even a 15mm angle of view. A crop factor messes with that, and that means the most likely customers for a digital rangefinder, 35mm rangefinder users, are hesitant to switch over. That has suddenly changed, and now every rangefinder shooter on the planet is scouring the internet to find out how much a kidney sells for on the black market. The M9 gives professional wedding photographers and photojournalists an excellent alternative to big heavy loud dSLRs. There are some things RFs do better than SLRs and now with the film/digital obstacle out of the way the RF can get back to work again. It also means rangefinders are suddenly suitable for landscape photography. Rangefinders were never considered good for landscape photography because you couldn't use a graduated ND filter or a polarizer, but now you can. Plus they're small, light, and they're compatible with the best lenses in the world (no retro-focus wide angles). What landscape photographer wouldn't want that!? (Think Galen Rowel.) Yes, the price is high, but if you've ever noticed how much current Leica users spend on camera gear, the M9 isn't really that outrageous. Once the cost comes down and other companies jump in to compete, I think the dRF could start to actually put a small dent in dSLR sales.

Paul

[Photo-John]

But I also agree with Greg that the Leica M9 should be on this list. It's not the first digital rangefinder, but it's the first one that's full frame...

A compelling argument. I will count this a second for Greg's M9 nomination. I will add it to the poll. Thanks for jumping in here.

Did you vote yet? If not, you'd better. I think the M9 will be a serious underdog.

[Photo-John]

But I also agree with Greg that the Leica M9 should be on this list. It's not the first digital rangefinder, but it's the first one that's full frame...

Glad I paid attention - the M9 took the lead in the poll and has really held onto it. Even if it doesn't win in the end, it's definitely proven that it belongs.

[Greg McCary]

Glad I paid attention - the M9 took the lead in the poll and has really held onto it. Even if it doesn't win in the end, it's definitely proven that it belongs.

I finally voted though and went with the EP-1. I think as for reaching the average photographer and making an impact on the most it won. I would have to refi my house in order to get an M9. I thought about it too.

[Photo-John]

I finally voted though and went with the EP-1. I think as for reaching the average photographer and making an impact on the most it won. I would have to refi my house in order to get an M9. I thought about it too.

I still haven't voted. I think it was a lot easier to choose last year.