A posed portrait of Danielle

[Trevor Ash]

Having stepped out of phoptography for a while now, I want to say a couple things.

I see too many photographers forget what a photo like this should be about. Which is the person. It's not about the highlights in the basted eyes! Only photographers obsess over something like that. Important? Absolutely! But if you just focus on things like that you'll never open yourself to your true capability.

No single photo will be perfect in everyone's opinions. So get over yourself, accept that some people know more or have different experiences and "listen" to them, even if you disagree. The moment you turn someone off because you think you know more than them is the moment you lose.

I felt that Hodgy did a great job here with an example of how it's about the person (even though lighting and catchlights and all that other stuff is important) Hodgy managed to bring out a connection with the young girl in his examples.

Nevermind "HOW" Hodgy did it! Ask yourselves WHY it makes the impact it does?

I'm getting off my soapbox now. It's easy for me to critique because I'm less active in these boards. I'm sorry for coming in and blasting like I am thoough.

Beautiful young girl, I hope she wil enjoy your portrait in the years to come. Make sure to get one framed for her.

[JSPhoto]

Hmmm, I'm not a fan at all of B&W, and I am not a fan of Hodgy's framing (I just don't like frames other than actual picture frames) The framing makes the girl shrink and look small, it would make her even smaller in an 8x10. finally the glow around her head in one of Hodgy's creations realy ruins it for me as it is extremly distracting.
Get rid of the frames, the glow and make her a just fit and 8x10 frame with abit of space above her head....she's too pretty to ruin her with all the excess stuff.

JS

[julsoph]

Alison, my two favorites that you've posted here are the color version, and the untouched b&w...in that order. The color one I REALLY prefer, because when you convert to b&w, you lose the lovely colors in her hair and eyes. I also do agree that the eyes in the retouched version seem to be overly sharp.
Honestly, I think you're doing a fine job with your portraits, and even when they might not be technically perfect, you're definitely capturing good stuff. And you're obviously practicing as much as you can to get it "right".

Emily

[Alison]

My attempt. Still used the same techniques as I used on the b&w version.

[Kaelastreet]

Hi Alison.
Can I vote 9.5 on the very first image of Danielle you posted in this thread, and recap something I learned elsewhere, something I thing that is pertinent here.#

Way back in 1984 I was involved in writing primitive computer code for the Royal Air Force. The teams objective was to write code that altered the angle of attack of vanes on a missile, to guide the missile. We had a limitation, the process had to live in a minuscule 4000 bytes (4k).

I did it and had it running in a week. Very simple.

My supervisor gave the code to some colleagues for them to test it. They disagreed with my redundant recursiveness and demanded a different solution. Three weeks later, I had prototype code running. It went to the guys at Cardington to test it on a model in a wind tunnel. They felt it needed error checking building in.

We got the code back and now, as part of a team of four, we worked on the code for another month. By stealing space from another function, we were able to enhance the code so that it met the engineers needs.

Now it failed testing as it was too slow and did not correct quickly enough.
We spend three months redesigning 4k of code. As one bit started to work, another bit developed problems.
Plessey gave us another 4k to play with. Now we had a problem squeezing code into the 8k and needed to develop better sensing to give feedback a higher degree of accuracy.

Next, this is a year later, we were given different servo mechanisms and started all over again, only now, the team was twenty strong. I was given another task on a promotion and lost contact with it.

Remember, it had been basically working after a week.

1990, we came across a relic from the cold war, made in the Soviet Union.
Their successful air to air missile used almost identical code to that which I had written.

The British project was never completed, the government of the day bought something from France instead.

Your first image is the one I hold, it looks wonderful, it is striking, thoughtful, and as some-one said, Mona Lisa-like.

I would say "Go with it", b'cause you can spend so much time making things 'better' and never achieve everything for everyone. The more something is scrutinized, the more faults are created to be repaired by those that offer their constructive criticisms. Thats Life...

Everyone has given you real good advice and information, but if you like the first thing you saw, stick with it..

Sorry, ranting on a bit.....

Climbs off soap box and exits, stage left.
Kizz

[Trevor Ash]

I would say "Go with it", b'cause you can spend so much time making things 'better' and never achieve everything for everyone. The more something is scrutinized, the more faults are created to be repaired by those that offer their constructive criticisms. Thats Life...

Now THAT deserves a 10/10. Great post!

[Kaelastreet]

Now THAT deserves a 10/10. Great post!

Thank you.
Oh my...


(Blush)

[Hodgy]

I seem to put a pinstripe and matte on everything now. Guess it's the amount of competitions I enter, or the framed/matted wall portraits I sell to my clients. Every image that leaves my studio over 8x10 is matted and framed. I guess it's just me. Whenever I work on an image now I finish it for Provincial and National print comps so I don't have todo it later, it's just habit.

[bobbythebandit]

I took this today. Danielle is standing on the stairs directly in front of our front door, I burned the stairs a bit, gave it a supermooth filter then an unsharp mask.
No flash! Woo hoo!
My lovely 50mm 1.8 lens, Manual mode, f/3.2, ss 1/80, ISO 400
Locked my focus on her eyes.

Am I, at last, getting things right with my portraits? Your thoughts please. Thank you.

Great shot and pose. She is stunning! beautiful. Have you a pic of her mother ?
Bobby

[Ronnoco]

I still prefer the black and white and no I am definitely not a black and white type. As a matter of fact, the only black and white I have ever shot and still do occasionally is for printing in newspapers, newsletters, local ads, etc.

In post #17 at least the colour was natural. In post 19: Hodgy, skin highlights were blown out and it was overly saturated toward red. In #29 Alison, you compromised and brought back the colour to a little more natural level, but you have an artificially red edge to her hair on the left side which does not match her natural hair colour.

Colour portraiture does not work very well, when it is all shades of one colour. Then the colour detracts rather than contributes to the subject.

Ronnoco

[Hodgy]

Ronnaco, maybe you should calibrate your monitor? Or check the numbers in PS. Highlights are fine.

[Peter_AUS]

Just thought I would throw my two cents in the ring.

I think answering Alisons question, you haven't made it completely but you are on the right track. Good advice has been given. Really Hodgy knows what he is talking about, he has been doing this for a while now and is making it big time with his work, can't really argue with that in anyway. If I was half as good as him, I would too be earning a living from Photography no questions asked about that.

To me the B/W version is the best, although working with what Hodgy had with the quality of the posted image, he has presented a very workable alternative. Is there too much red, well that all has to do with the age of our eyes and the colour space we sit in. I think there is a little, but then probably with the reflections from the dress. Keeping in mind that it was natural lighting as well.

So here is a version of the B/W taken from the colour image that Alison posted which was slightly over exposed and was in aRGB profile as well.

I converted it to sRGB then to 16 bit, adjusted levels as it was slightly overexposed, adjusted the red channel down a little and then the rest is history. There was or is a need to fix just a little under the right eye and a slight little on the left eye as well. There is also a blemish on the chin.

Wonder what you all think.

[Alison]

Very pretty Peter and I like the copyright you gave me. The blemish on her chin is a scar. She fell in the playground at school and had to have butterfly stitches.

Ronnoco - Thank you for all the compliments you are giving me about my original posted. Coming from you that means alot to me. I actually quite like the glow of red on her hair in #29. It actually looked to me like I had a red hair light above her hair. This is something I would love to achieve while taking the pictures but I don't have access to a studio, or have the space in my own home. (There are 9 of us living in a 3 bed house).

Bobby - yes. I posted an sp on here the other day. I have also put three in my gallery here.
http://gallery.photographyreview.com...&ppuser=246535

Thanks for your advise EVERYONE.

[Lava Lamp]

By the way, I thought you was outta here lol

I was, I had a session with 1yr old.

What a great thread. The way it evolved it showed us several versions (and visions) of the same portrait, showing some different possibllities. I think the first posted version, while good, was a bit oversoftened and a little too generic. With the girl's distinctive hair color, it's almost a dis-service to her to shoot in B&W.

IMHO, Hodgy's version is the best of all.

[bobbythebandit]

You sound angry Hodgy. I was just trying to say what look I was after. Under these conditions how did I do?
Any better in colour?

Aaaaaahhhhhhhhh Red hair just like her mums. She is truly stunning. And you are quite lovely yourself Alison. Red hair ? umm any irish blood in there ? i too had red hair before it turned grey, was considered mad as a hatter. I can see you have a love of life by your eyes.
Thks for sharing, Robert

[Alison]

Very pretty Peter and I like the copyright you gave me.

Thanks for your advise EVERYONE.

Ok. Here is the post concerned Peter. You will see, in actual fact, I was thanking you for the copyright you gave me. It showed respect for my work.

I even said Hodgy's version was beautiful. (So please don't take offence to the comments I am about to make Hodgy).

What offended me was some people emphasizing the fact that Hodgy's enhancements to my image were better than my own. I am capable of doing the same enhancements or close to them, anyway.

I was responsible for taking the photograph and felt that some people lost that point half way through and forgot about it being my image in the first place and I kind of felt it became Hodgy's image. Which actually made me feel sad.

I asked for opinions, not help with enhancing the picture. That was taken out of my hands and in the end I felt like the post was no longer mine.

I hope you can all see my point of view. I'm not trying to annoy anyone. I just want to make myself heard.

[dbutler]

Understood Alison. I think that so many of us feel like we're friends that we trust the person who posted the image will see it as simply a visual of the critique itself, not as claiming the image. I, for one, love it when people manipulate my image because I like having that visual. To me, it's the same thing, just in a different format. But that's why I changed my siggie to say that I welcome image enhancement of my work. So, I don't think anyone wanted to hurt your feelings. We respect your wishes no doubt.

As for the image on this thread, I love the color and your second B&W. The first is just too flat for my liking. While I'm a high key freak, I just don't see it working so well on this one. But it may also be that having seen your lovely daughter in several images, the things that I love about the photos (the striking red hair, the freckles, that dimple) are not present in the first image. And I note that and feel that it therefore detracts from the overall impact.

[CLKunst]

Ali,
I watched this thread from afar but kept my hands out of it because I felt there were already too many egos involved. It was fairly obvious to me that your feelings were the one that got trampled on in the process. I don't think your image needed improving to the degree that it was. I liked it as you had presented it but liked the color one more for similar reasons to what D has already stated. And I agree that without your permission no one should have touched it much less take it as far as was done.
Photography can be a very insular pasttime/profession and some of us need very loud little voices to keep us going and shooting. Still others find solace in displaying their work in "Safe places" like this one where you get the opinions of a world of photographers from a world of experience to make sure that we are cutting the grade. Now the ones of us that do this for a living have convinced ourselves that we do it right all the time (mostly). We have to because our business depends on the decisions we make to please our clients. That kind of confidence, at least with me, I reserve for my own work. It has to meet my eye's standard. But I wouldn't expect you or anyone else to look at it the same way because viewing is subjective. That's what critique is for.
If you want someone to say, you are doing an incredible job, go open your own studio and start charging big bucks for portraiture you might not find that here (although I think you could do it). From what I have seen of your work, it has heart, beauty and an artists eye, those qualities are all a great start towards bigger and better things. I thought you were quite a kind and open to learning individual to let this particular discussion wind on in the direction it did for as long as it did.
Just thought I would share that with you.

Regards,

[Alison]

Thank you so much for your comments D and CLK.

Thank you so much for the compliments. I felt quite choked at what you said CLK...

If you want someone to say, you are doing an incredible job, go open your own studio and start charging big bucks for portraiture you might not find that here (although I think you could do it). From what I have seen of your work, it has heart, beauty and an artists eye, those qualities are all a great start towards bigger and better things. I thought you were quite a kind and open to learning individual to let this particular discussion wind on in the direction it did for as long as it did.
Just thought I would share that with you.

Regards,

Yes, you are right I AM very open to learning. I don't think my work is perfect which is why I am here. I am also not confident enough to start charging people for work that I see far from perfect. That's just me.
Maybe one day I will get a little confidence in my abilities.

And my original posted portrait I love so much! It cries porcelain skin to me. I just love it the way it is

[CLKunst]

You are indeed welcome.

Cheers Luv!

[dbutler]

Alison, honestly, if you love the image so much don't post it for critique. As you already know, it's all so subjective. I have many images that I love but would never offer up for critique because I know they would be torn to shreds here (with reason of course!). I have a different view of the world than most, and much of what I find interesting enough to create an image of, many wonder as to why.

Posting an image you truly love in a critique forum can really be heartbreaking if you hear less than stellar remarks. And it can ruin the image for you. I posted one elsewhere once that was shredded. An image I had once enjoyed so much lost its "specialness" because I thought (at the time) that those guys with so much more experience knew what they were talking about far better than I. Now, a few years later, I realize that the image really wasn't as bad as they said, only different than what they preferred (and that's a huge thing to keep in mind).

Now, I only post images that I don't mind having torn to bits. What I learn on those images I may apply to my true favorites but ain't no way I'm going to let these guys at the ones I really like. I figure out how to improve those on my own! All the pics I post in the critique forum are for learning only. I DO NOT expect praise. When I get it, I get blown away because I always come in expecting to get my teeth kicked in. But I always walk away with a lesson learned.

It takes a pretty thick skin to get through this. My feelings used to get hurt easily when I first started. But after a while, I saw my stuff improving and it made it easier to take. Especially once I accepted that their vision and mine were not necessarily the same. Sort of like when I told you that I'm not a portrait person. I'm not and I almost never comment on them (though these last two of yours have been awesome enough to draw me out). I don't care for them, and it's just not worth commenting most of the time. But that doesn't mean that portraits aren't fabulous. Just not my thing.

I agree with CL that you have a great vision, and a talent. Personally, I think you could make money with your images already. Put up a curtain or muslin sheet, take a couple shots of some friends' kids, and I'll bet you will have more work than you know what to do with sooner than you think (except of course since they're your friends they will probably want them for free). I look forward to seeing more of your work. But keep the stuff you really love in the other forums, share them in ViewFinder, but not in Critique. Cause who really cares whether we like those specific ones? The important thing is that you love 'em.

[Alison]

Aah, but it is only MY opinion.
And I like to get MANY opinions from people far more experienced than me, and then go with the majority.

Sometimes I can show an image that I adore and things get pointed out to me, things that I hadn't noticed. Then I make the adjustments and I love it even more.

In this case I loved the adjustments made and still loved the original lol.

I know, I'm a strange person and I do have thick enough skin to take cc. I just think this one went a bit beyond that.

Cool now I don't need glasses to read this text lol