Photo Permission Questions

[pgowder]

First don't know if this is the right forum to ask the question. If not, please move as needed.

I'm taking photos at Native American Pow Wows. If I want to publish a book or poster of certain images, do I need the permission of the event committee? How about of the subject? What if the photo is of a large group?

The events that I go to know that I'm there from my website and will be publishing photos and videos on that site. And I get Press Passes at these events.

For example, this would make a great poster:
http://www.powwows.com/galleries/sho...php?photo=5601
But do I need anyone's permission for that photo?

Here's another example:
http://www.powwows.com/galleries/sho...php?photo=5485
I'm thinking of doing a book of photos of each different dance style. This would be one I would want to include. Do I need her permission?

Any advice on this would help!

Thanks

[another view]

Let me preface this with the fact that this is essentially a legal matter and the best advice will come from a copyright attorney.

I'm not an expert on this, but there are some good books on the subject. It really comes down to use - what the image will be used for. The first shot doesn't have one particular subject person (hundreds) and it would be near impossible to get all of them to sign a release. I was at a concert that a DVD was being produced from. They had signs everywhere saying that by coming thru the door you grant permission... I don't know if that would hold up in court though. With this shot, I'm not really sure, and I'm not sure if it's different with an Indian Nation (I know you don't want a speeding ticket driving thru a reservation!). Then there's the venue - do you need a release if it's recognizable? If you are doing a book, I'd think you'd want to get a release at least from the people putting on the Pow Wow but this may not be enough.

With the second shot you have a clear subject, so I think you'd really need a release.

I realize I'm probably asking more questions than I'm answering, but think about all of these things - the last thing you want to do is wind up in court. There are attorneys who represent artists; you might want to check that out. If you're talking to a publisher, you may want to bring this up to them too - they don't want to be involved in a suit either! The press pass gets you access, but editorial usage (as in newspaper) is very different in this regard.

[pgowder]

Thanks.

What do sport photographers do? Lots of them sell the picture to newspapers or magazines, right?

[Trevor Ash]

Somewhere sometime I was told that Native American Indians don't like having their picture taken. Steals their soul or something like that. I'm probably completely wrong but make sure to look into that aspect of things.

[92135011]

If someone else shot the pick then of course!
With regard to doing a shoot of the dances, even if it were all legal and well, it would not hurt to ask them anyways as a sign of respect.

In any event, your publisher would let you know what you need. They take the biggest cut in selling the book, so they should take the most liability as well.

[pgowder]

Somewhere sometime I was told that Native American Indians don't like having their picture taken. Steals their soul or something like that. I'm probably completely wrong but make sure to look into that aspect of things.

The rule of thumb is that if they are in the arena dancing, it's ok to take the pictures. (except during certain times) If someone is outside the arena you should ask permission first.

[pgowder]

If someone else shot the pick then of course!
With regard to doing a shoot of the dances, even if it were all legal and well, it would not hurt to ask them anyways as a sign of respect.

In any event, your publisher would let you know what you need. They take the biggest cut in selling the book, so they should take the most liability as well.

What about posters? I want to start doing posters now with CafePress.

[another view]

Once again the advice about legal council...

I think if anything you should err on the conservative side. A poster is pretty similar to doing a book from this standpoint. I don't mean to be discouraging at all - I think it's great you're pursuing it - but a little (or a lot) of "CYA" never hurt!

[Flight]

I read that in public places you don't need permission, but if the subject shows that he or she doesn't want his or her picture taken (like if they out right say no or move or shy away).

I'm not a legal beagle so listen to me at your own risk,

[Flight]

This is what I found, didn't look too hard but this is what I read. It's in PDF. Scroll down and click the graphic.

[dakotaglory]

Just my initial observation. Don't people take pics of celebrities all the time without their permission? I don't agree with it, however, just something to think about.

[JSPhoto]

Thanks.

What do sport photographers do? Lots of them sell the picture to newspapers or magazines, right?

It depends on the paper/organization your shooting for. The AP has the rights to the shots they get from me for two years. The papers I shoot for are pretty easy on it normally a year after first run.

As for this deal, thats totally different. The organization running the program is the one to ask. Some groups relish the "advertising" while others will not.

JS

[Kick]

I know the rules for permissions for releases for publication of a photo, but what about the sale of a CD with photo images on it for private use?

When I sell a photo to a magazine I get the appropriate releases etc. and give my subjects a copy of the photos and a dollar (has to be renumeration for the exchange/permission to be legal). However -

I recently took a bunch of photos of a friend's son's high school graduation and posted them online for he and his friends to download. The kids are having trouble downloading the low res files and want larger resolution files. They want to buy them from me - but I did it for free as a favor so I'm willing to just give them the photos as a graduation gift to the graduation class. I do however insist on selling any CD's I make of the photos for $10 to cover my time and the CD and CD case cost.

I'm hearing rumors that one of the parents wants to buy a CD and sue me for not getting permission to photograph their kids and post them on Webshots for the kids to enjoy. This was in a public auditorium, a gazillion people took pictures and have done the same thing - and this is a strictly vindictive attempt for some disgruntled parent who thinks ANY photo of a kid posted on the internet is pedophile fodder! Makes me wonder about that parent!!

Anyway, before I hand out any CDs of graduation - the kids have to sign a release that the photos won't be published anywhere - including school paper/yearbook etc. This has freaked me out. Has anyone else had this happen? Any ideas what my rights and their rights are?

[mdcalaska]

Here's a pretty good summary at this link:

http://www.publaw.com/photo.html

Kick
If any of the graduates were under 18 - it gets into that "minor child" area - and tends to be a "Hot button" for grief these days.

My suggestion is to NOT post any "minors" images on the web at all - just to steer clear of it - for sure if the page is not secure (open to all to view).

It is also possible the School District requires a model release - as almost all Universities do these days. The auditorium is school property and thay have the right to require such.

If I was in your exact situation - I would go to the "upset" parent and apoligize; your intent was totally good. My goal would be to communicate my original good intentions and not having forseen the potential downside to posting the images for the kids to get easy. Once you get past both parties' "anger/upset" emotions, the rewards of "eating some crow" can be quite good - new friend/Customer/ etc.

Anything to avoid any legal actions is always beneficial to everyone's pocketbook (except the lawyers - of course !)

Good Luck on it.

[Franglais]

I know the rules for permissions for releases for publication of a photo, but what about the sale of a CD with photo images on it for private use?

When I sell a photo to a magazine I get the appropriate releases etc. and give my subjects a copy of the photos and a dollar (has to be renumeration for the exchange/permission to be legal). However -

I recently took a bunch of photos of a friend's son's high school graduation and posted them online for he and his friends to download. The kids are having trouble downloading the low res files and want larger resolution files. They want to buy them from me - but I did it for free as a favor so I'm willing to just give them the photos as a graduation gift to the graduation class. I do however insist on selling any CD's I make of the photos for $10 to cover my time and the CD and CD case cost.

I'm hearing rumors that one of the parents wants to buy a CD and sue me for not getting permission to photograph their kids and post them on Webshots for the kids to enjoy. This was in a public auditorium, a gazillion people took pictures and have done the same thing - and this is a strictly vindictive attempt for some disgruntled parent who thinks ANY photo of a kid posted on the internet is pedophile fodder! Makes me wonder about that parent!!

Anyway, before I hand out any CDs of graduation - the kids have to sign a release that the photos won't be published anywhere - including school paper/yearbook etc. This has freaked me out. Has anyone else had this happen? Any ideas what my rights and their rights are?

I live in France where the rules are fairly clear. In the USA each State has its own laws which doesn't help. Here are the rules I set myself:

A sports hall, auditorium, museum, restaurant, public park, bus, shopping mall - all of these are PRIVATE places where the owner can set rules and regulations. Generally photography is forbidden and you have to get the owner's permission to take pictures. However there is usually an implicit tolerance when the photos are taken within a group - grandma can take the photos of the kiddies birthday party in the restaurant. But she has no right to shoot pictures of the restaurant itself.

About the only place you can take pictures freely is out in the street. However if you publish images of an identifiable person then the person may attack you for slander or claim damages. By bringing the knowledge of what happened at an event in a private place to people who were not there then you may unknowingly do harm to someone - for instance what if the couple holding hands in the background are married but not to one another..

My suggestions for your case:

1. I would not publish anything on an open web site like Webshots if I wasn't sure of the acceptance of the subject. If I want to share my images I make a personal web site with a stern warning on the opening that the images are not for publication, and only give the address of the site to people who were there.

2. I would not ask $10 for a CD - that's making a commerce out of something you didn't have permission to photograph in the first place. When I do a CD for people I usually ask them to give me a blank CD in exchange. That way it doesn't cost me anything apart from my own time. The CD includes the no-publication stern warning and I never supply one to someone who wasn't there.

3. I only put low-resolution images on a CD (600x800 max). If somebody wants a full-resolution image then I do them a special CD including only images where they are the main subject.

Charles