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  1. #26
    Nature/Wildlife Forum Co-Moderator Loupey's Avatar
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    Re: A practice of silliness.

    Perhaps we're forgetting about the people who just use dSLR's as sophisticated point-and-shoots. The ones who buy the kit, photograph their kids, take them on vacations, and shoot birthday parties. Never comes out of AUTO or P, not very techie and so not likely to have any other lenses. I imagine this group makes up a substantial percentage of camera buyers.

    Perhaps they notice digital noise but haven't really thought about all the factors that lead to digital noise. All they know is that if they buy a newer body, they will take cleaner images.

    And that's all they want.
    Please do not edit or repost my images.

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  2. #27
    Spamminator Grandpaw's Avatar
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    Re: A practice of silliness.

    If I upgraded my five lenses that I have to 2.8 I would probably have around $15,000 to $20,000 in glass. Right now I have about $2500 in glass. If I went out and spent $3000 on a camera with good ISO capabilities I would have a total of $5500 in all my CAMERAS AND LENSES. I have something I can use in low light situations for 10 to 15 thousand dollars of savings.

    I do realize that the faster glass would be sharper but for me I can get pretty decent pictures at a price I can afford. If the funds were there to buy whatever I wanted I would have the fast glass and the higher ISO capabilities.

    I am looking into buying a Nikon 70-200VR 2.8 lens from a friend at a price I can manage and I am looking forward to using it, Jeff

    I would like to say that for me the thing that I consider really silly is not learning the equipment you have and getting the most out of it before buying a newer model and not learning how to get the most out of it either! Now to me "that is silly".
    Check out my website Here
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    All images posted by me anywhere are Copyrighted by Federal Law and may not be copied or used in ANY FORM without my personal written permission. Jeff Impey
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  3. #28
    Captain of the Ship Photo-John's Avatar
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    Re: A practice of silliness.

    Quote Originally Posted by Loupey
    I never thought about it that way. The driving assumption is that each successive generation is going to improve/expand on the IQ of the lower range. I never heard of a successor camera within the same line that went backwards in this regard.
    I think digital SLR image quality has reached the point where ISO 100 is excellent no matter what camera you're using. You really have to pixel peep to find any difference. And if you do, who cares? Because the only way those differences are going to matter is if you crop the living hell out of a photo. And if you're doing that, you've really missed the boat and it doesn't matter anyway.

    As for cameras going backwards? I willl answer that possibility the same way. I think it's possible that low ISO image quality at the pixel level has decreased. I was very suspicious of that when Canon replaced the EOS 40D with the 50D. However, increased resolution oten makes it a wash. The bigger issue is whether we might have even better image quality if they'd just leave the resolution alone when they introduce a new camera.

    Just to be clear - when I say "image quality" in this post I'm referring to noise. There are other things to consider like tonal control, color, etc. But noise is usually the thing people are most interested in.

    Great thread, by the way!
    Photo-John

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  4. #29
    Be serious Franglais's Avatar
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    3200 ISO on the D300

    Here's one of my portraits from Saturday, 3200 ISO 1/125 f5.6 on the 35mm f1.8
    Yes there is noise but you have to blow the image up really large to see it.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails A practice of silliness.-4394-020.jpg  
    Charles

    Nikon D800, D7200, Sony RX100m3
    Not buying any more gear this year. I hope

  5. #30
    Senior Member OldClicker's Avatar
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    Re: A practice of silliness.

    Quote Originally Posted by Photo-John
    ....But noise is usually the thing people are most interested in.
    Which is kind of the point. Should it be?

    My major interest in photography is competition with 16"x20" prints - often of things like small birds which usually require a crop to get full frame. Sharpness and subtle colors at the base ISO is what I'm looking for.

    Terry
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    I am no better than you. I critique to teach myself to see.
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    Sony/Minolta - way more gear than talent.

  6. #31
    banished Asmarlak's Avatar
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    Re: A practice of silliness.

    I think people who didn't take impressive shots using their old P&Ss, most likely they won't when using top of the line DSLRs/lenses, and that takes us back to the old subject of weather better gear makes better photographers.
    Last edited by Asmarlak; 02-21-2011 at 09:39 PM.

  7. #32
    Senior Member Anbesol's Avatar
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    Re: A practice of silliness.

    As we all have well demonstrated - there are very good reasons to hold high-iso image grain to a high bar, and to be picky and enjoy a cleaner grain at higher ISO.

    I am not emphasizing my point properly though - I used to be the kind of silly consumer that I am criticizing here. I used to overvalue high ISO grain, then the years of practice showed me how much more important 100-400 is than anything else, I very rarely find myself going beyond 1000, even though I'm comfortable with the grain at 1600-2000. That is why I even have this thought, because I know it was a miscalculation I made earlier on. Some people have more use than others for high ISO grain, but we shouldn't ever forget the importance of grain at 100-400 either.

    Franglais, awesome shot.

    Asmarlak - I do believe that people are capable of learning, as well. Being good at photography I don't think involves being good at it from the get-go, if that were the case I should have given up a long time ago! No, better gear doesn't make a better photographer, but it does afford them a better leverage over the craft.
    Last edited by Anbesol; 02-23-2011 at 05:35 PM.

  8. #33
    banished Asmarlak's Avatar
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    Re: A practice of silliness.

    Quote Originally Posted by Anbesol
    Asmarlak - I do believe that people are capable of learning, as well. Being good at photography I don't think involves being good at it from the get-go, if that were the case I should have given up a long time ago! No, better gear doesn't make a better photographer, but it does afford them a better leverage over the craft.
    I disagree Anbesol. Photography is like any other art form, we can always learn the technique and technology of it but up to that limit alone, no one can learn to be "Picasso".

  9. #34
    Senior Member OldClicker's Avatar
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    Re: A practice of silliness.

    Quote Originally Posted by Asmarlak
    I disagree Anbesol. Photography is like any other art form, we can always learn the technique and technology of it but up to that limit alone, no one can learn to be "Picasso".
    Picasso learned to be Picasso - we all need to learn to use what talent we have. - Terry
    -----------------
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    Sony/Minolta - way more gear than talent.

  10. #35
    banished Asmarlak's Avatar
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    Re: A practice of silliness.

    Picasso had the talent and learned the technique like most other artists in all categories. If someone thinks he got the talent then he's not included in my replay.
    Besides, is it a talent good enough for a hobby or profession?. for a hobby there is no issue, we can be at any level we can be. but for a profession that we depend on to make living, things are totally different.
    But since this thread is "A practice of silliness", I find it silly that some people take on photography as profession thinking that they could learn it all from A-Z.
    Last edited by Asmarlak; 02-23-2011 at 07:02 PM.

  11. #36
    Senior Member Anbesol's Avatar
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    Re: A practice of silliness.

    Perhaps we're forgetting about the people who just use dSLR's as sophisticated point-and-shoots. The ones who buy the kit, photograph their kids, take them on vacations, and shoot birthday parties. Never comes out of AUTO or P, not very techie and so not likely to have any other lenses. I imagine this group makes up a substantial percentage of camera buyers.
    Well, with just the kit lens - that DSLR would be more like a pointlessly complicated point and shoot. If they are using the camera like that, then theres really no point in the upgraded camera body, they'd be better off with something like a Canon SX20 or something. Or an elph.

    *edit - "complicated" isn't really the best word for what I meant, I think "hassle" is more correct.
    Last edited by Anbesol; 02-24-2011 at 02:00 AM.

  12. #37
    Senior Member OldClicker's Avatar
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    Re: A practice of silliness.

    Quote Originally Posted by Asmarlak
    Picasso had the talent and learned the technique like most other artists in all categories. If someone thinks he got the talent then he's not included in my replay.
    Besides, is it a talent good enough for a hobby or profession?. for a hobby there is no issue, we can be at any level we can be. but for a profession that we depend on to make living, things are totally different.
    But since this thread is "A practice of silliness", I find it silly that some people take on photography as profession thinking that they could learn it all from A-Z.
    I've seen/heard many pros that may or may not have the talent, but certainly had NOT learned the techniques. Also, I think that there are many areas of professional photography that I would categorize more as 'craft' than 'art' in that good (learned) technique will more than suffice. - Terry
    -----------------
    I am no better than you. I critique to teach myself to see.
    -----------------
    Feel free to edit my photos or do anything else that will help me learn.
    -----------------
    Sony/Minolta - way more gear than talent.

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