Nikon d70 or Canon 20D?

[dannie78]

Hi, I was wondering if anyone could give me advice on which of these to cameras to purchase... I like the Canon20D because it had more megapixels than the d70, but from reviews I have read, the Nikon seems to be more user friendly... can anyone give me any feedback on either of these cameras?
Thanks!

[Lionheart]

Hi, I was wondering if anyone could give me advice on which of these to cameras to purchase... I like the Canon20D because it had more megapixels than the d70, but from reviews I have read, the Nikon seems to be more user friendly... can anyone give me any feedback on either of these cameras?
Thanks!

User friendly is a matter of personal taste/opinion. A lot depends on what camera system you were using before. I would advise you to find a store and get your hands on both cameras and play with them and then see which you find more comfortable in your hands. There is definitely a difference and everyone's tastes are different. I grew up photographically on a Canon EOS system, so hand me almost any Canon SLR or DSLR and I'll know how to operate 90% of it without reading the manual. Hand me a Nikon and well....
I have actually played some with both these cameras at a convention I went to in Nashville 2 months ago, and honestly, I liked the feel of the Nikon even if I wasn't familiar with the control layout. As with any new camera, you'll eventually learn and get used to the controls, and user friendly becomes a non issue, so you might want to consider the camera's actual capabilities first. Comparing the D70 to the 20D really isn't a fair one, since these cameras fill different niches in the market. The D70 is an extremely capable entry level DSLR, while the 20D was designed as top tier consumer level DSLR capable of being a backup body for professional photographers. As far as image quality, that will depend more on your lenses than the camera, as well as your skills as a photographer and your skills in post processing with whatever program you use.

[SigmaSD10]

Hi, I was wondering if anyone could give me advice on which of these to cameras to purchase... I like the Canon20D because it had more megapixels than the d70, but from reviews I have read, the Nikon seems to be more user friendly... can anyone give me any feedback on either of these cameras?
Thanks!

I wonder why you are leaning towards these two DSLR's when there is another DSLR you may not have considered that can give you both?
The Sigma SD10 matches the 20D for resolution, its sensor is sharper, and its about as user friendly as they come.
....The best bit is that currently the SD10 with an 18-50mm DC kit lens is actually cheaper than the D70 body alone!!! ;)

Regards

DSG

[Lionheart]

I wonder why you are leaning towards these two DSLR's when there is another DSLR you may not have considered that can give you both?
The Sigma SD10 matches the 20D for resolution, its sensor is sharper, and its about as user friendly as they come.
....The best bit is that currently the SD10 with an 18-50mm DC kit lens is actually cheaper than the D70 body alone!!! ;)

Regards

DSG

I've often thought of trying out the Sigma SD9 and SD10, but I want to hold it in my hands and play before buying into a new system and rebuilding my lens collection, and unfortunately here in Northern California, finding a store within driving distance that actually carries Sigma DSLR's is just about non-existent. I really like to handle the camera before buying to get a feel for how the camera responds in my hands, and to get a feel for the AF ability of the camera compared to my current system (and my EOS 1D Mk II and it's variants, is just about the best out there). The Foveon sensor makes a lot of sense when I read the articles on these when they first hit the market, but I just don't see the Sigma's taking off here in the U.S., at least not in California, and I'm loathe to invest in equipment with limited support locally. Of course, 16 years ago, I made the decision to invest in the new Canon EOS and EF system, even though the market back then was held by Nikon and their F mount, and even Minolta's Maxxum cameras held more market share and availability back then. My decision then was based on pure AF ability of the camera, and Canon's was night and day better than everyone else's then. But now, AF ability is a secondary consideration for me, being replaced by image quality as my primary consideration, and with film out of the way, image quality is based on sensors and post processing skill in photoshop.Could Sigma's Foveon system be the next market shaker? I'm getting conservative in old age, so I'll probably wait and see before making the plunge. Plus, with Canon's huge RD budget, at some point, they''l develop a sensor similar in design to the Foveon, or even license the technology from Sigma, saving me the pain of switching to a new camera system. Perhaps you could inundate us with images so folks like myself could make a decision. Thanks for reminding me of other alternatives. Now I'm thinking again of the Sigma DSLR's.

[SigmaSD10]

"I've often thought of trying out the Sigma SD9 and SD10, but I want to hold it in my hands and play before buying into a new system and rebuilding my lens collection, and unfortunately here in Northern California, finding a store within driving distance that actually carries Sigma DSLR's is just about non-existent. I really like to handle the camera before buying to get a feel for how the camera responds in my hands, and to get a feel for the AF ability of the camera compared to my current system (and my EOS 1D Mk II and it's variants, is just about the best out there). The Foveon sensor makes a lot of sense when I read the articles on these when they first hit the market, but I just don't see the Sigma's taking off here in the U.S., at least not in California, and I'm loathe to invest in equipment with limited support locally."

There are a few Sigma users in California and many more throughout the states you probably just have'nt come across any either locally or on this forum.
Chris Austin, for instance is a Sigma using resident of SoCal:

http://www.chrisaustin.us/about.html

You will find a lot of Sigma users use the "Sigma SLR talk forum" on www.dpreview.com and thats where quite a lot of US users can be found.


"Of course, 16 years ago, I made the decision to invest in the new Canon EOS and EF system, even though the market back then was held by Nikon and their F mount, and even Minolta's Maxxum cameras held more market share and availability back then. My decision then was based on pure AF ability of the camera, and Canon's was night and day better than everyone else's then. But now, AF ability is a secondary consideration for me, being replaced by image quality as my primary consideration, and with film out of the way, image quality is based on sensors and post processing skill in photoshop.Could Sigma's Foveon system be the next market shaker? I'm getting conservative in old age, so I'll probably wait and see before making the plunge. Plus, with Canon's huge RD budget, at some point, they''l develop a sensor similar in design to the Foveon, or even license the technology from Sigma, saving me the pain of switching to a new camera system."


But you might not necessarily need to switch all your lenses for Sigma ones as Canon EF lenses can actually be modified to fit the SD10. (The Sigma SA mount is a clone of the EF mount, its just smaller.)
The electrical pin outs are identical and base of both mounts are virtually the same too.
If you have a Sigma made EF mount lens you can swap the mountings with a Sigma SA mount lens quite easily. Of course you would need to first get hold of a few SA mount lenses to act as lensmount donars and thats the tricky part.

"Perhaps you could inundate us with images so folks like myself could make a decision. Thanks for reminding me of other alternatives. Now I'm thinking again of the Sigma DSLR's."

I see lots of great images from other Sigma users, far too many in fact to post links to every one but Laurence Matson has some great shots showing how well the SD10 captures fine detail that cannot be resolved by its bayer sensored rivals, even the 20D.
Look at the feather detail in this one:

http://www.pbase.com/lmatson/image/34790872

And one of my own taken with an ariel reconnaisance lens thats older than I am and lwas ast used on an RAF Vulcan Bomber!...:

http://sigmasd10.fotopic.net/p14510383.html

This native sharpness of the SD10 can have its downside too though especially in close up portraits of women, for no matter how smooth skinned they look to your eyes when they are standing in front of you they can seem like hairy faced old crones as the SD10, captures every tiny detail.
Here is a good example, a shot of my very smooth skinned ex landlady, taken using a Mamiya 645 80mm f2.8 medium format lens:

http://sigmasd10.fotopic.net/p11809176.html

....A little unflattering to say the least!...But I would'nt have it any other way. LOL!.
However that does not mean that the SD10's increadible sharpness makes every woman seem unattractive....Just sit back and enjoy this self portrait by the beautiful Olga Vasilkova and her SD10:

http://www.pbase.com/sigmasd9/image/40529729

Not only does she look amazing, so does her photography, which puts mine to shame.
Here is a couple of examples of her work:
http://www.pbase.com/sigmasd9/image/40530452
http://www.pbase.com/sigmasd9/image/40530426

Flowers can also look very lifelike when captured by the SD10. When I showed the following picture to a female non-photographer she exclaimed, without prompting" WOW" It sort of looks 3D!"...And thats a reaction that becomes common to Sigma users:

http://sigmasd10.fotopic.net/p12856426.html

Another common misconception put around by users of other brands is that the SD10 cannot take good shots at night....Again Laurence Matson shows this to be completely untrue:

http://www.pbase.com/lmatson/image/24213917

And one of my own:

http://sigmasd10.fotopic.net/p15237344.html

I could go on all night, but I dont want to bore you so here is the link to the Sigma SD10 users gallery at Pbase:

http://www.pbase.com/sigmasd9/user_sd10

Enjoy.

Regards

Alf

[Lionheart]

Now I'm seriously drooling over the SD10. It certainly does seem to have a depth very reminiscent of slide film on the images I've viewed.Time to start looking for EF to SA adapters.

[mdmc]

I wonder why you are leaning towards these two DSLR's when there is another DSLR you may not have considered that can give you both?
The Sigma SD10 matches the 20D for resolution, its sensor is sharper, and its about as user friendly as they come.
....The best bit is that currently the SD10 with an 18-50mm DC kit lens is actually cheaper than the D70 body alone!!! ;)

Regards

DSG

I get that you're enthused about the Sigma SD10! The fact is is that it's not all that user freindly, and requires speacial software to get the most out of the images.
Also you go on to compare it's image quality to medium format film. Hmm, if I recall correctly The 16 MP Cannon camera's images just beat 35mm print film. It seems to me that if the sigma were that good I would have read a favorable review of it somwhere. I havent.
If you can show me a head to head comparison against the D 70 Or 20D you might make a believer out of me, but I doubt it.
Mark.

[SigmaSD10]

"I get that you're enthused about the Sigma SD10! The fact is is that it's not all that user freindly, and requires speacial software to get the most out of the images."

Well of course it needs "special software" to get the most out of the images, it only takes RAW files which need to be processed on a computer!
The software you speak of, "Sigma Photo Pro", could be described as being "special" I suppose as its widely recognised as about best bundled RAW processing software out there.
...Its also totally free, both to the Sigma user and to anyone else who wishes to download it unlike the equivalent software from Canon or Nikon.
However you dont have to use SPP these days as there is an excellent Photoshop CS plugin that allows CS to process Sigma X3F raw files as well.
That aside it is, as I mentioned earlier, extremely user friendly and the first thing new SD10 users usually comment on is how easy it is to use as the controls are so simple and well layed out.
There is no need to go into the menu to access all the main controls for instance, as is often the case for its competitors.

"Also you go on to compare it's image quality to medium format film. Hmm, if I recall correctly The 16 MP Cannon camera's images just beat 35mm print film. It seems to me that if the sigma were that good I would have read a favorable review of it somwhere. I havent."

I dont recall comparing it to medium format film quality?, but since you bring that up then its true that there are several cases where old pro photographers when viewing large SD10 prints without knowing what camera they were taken with, have asked "What medium format camera were they taken with?".
Another common reaction is "Wow they have a 3D look!".
...It is unprompted comments like this that have become familiar to many Sigma users.
I have'nt ever heard of the same comments being spoken about prints from other DSLR's, but its possible that they have?

"If you can show me a head to head comparison against the D 70 Or 20D you might make a believer out of me, but I doubt it."

There are a few photographers out there that use both the SD10 and 20D, some that use the SD10 and D70 and some even have a whole plethora of DSLRs but they also use the SD10. None claim it is perfect, and neither would I but it seems they all acknowledge that when they need the ulimate in image quality they all reach for their SD10's.
I am sure that these are the best people to ask how good they find the SD10, not the bumpth spouted by some reviewer who only has a camera for a week, not long enough to learn how to use it properly, and then returns it at the end of the review.
Though I say this, strangely enough it was the image samples at steves-digicams that made my mind up when I was trying to decide what DSLR to buy, when the choice was quite litteraly mind boggling.
I took identical crops from steves standard "red brick building" sample shots from 10 different DSLR's, that were on my wishlist at that time, including the Canon 1Ds and then pasted the crops side by side in two rows to compare them.
Needless to say, it was the SD10 that impressed me most.
Especially as it matched the 1Ds's image quality even though the SD10 was around £6000 cheaper than the 1Ds at the time!
The 20D had not been released back then so the Canon 10D was the nearest priced Canon competitor.
Had the 20D been available back then perhaps I might have been more impressed by it and gone for that instead, but I am happy I made the right choice at the right time.
BTW rumours of a new Sigma DSLR soon to be announced have again been making the rounds, mostly due to the sudden price drop of the SD10. I hope there is some substance in those rumours but even if not I will continue to be very with my SD10. ;)

Regards

Alf

[mdmc]

Hi, I was wondering if anyone could give me advice on which of these to cameras to purchase... I like the Canon20D because it had more megapixels than the d70, but from reviews I have read, the Nikon seems to be more user friendly... can anyone give me any feedback on either of these cameras?
Thanks!

Personally I have the d70 and am quite happy with it. It's small light and fast.
The 20d is probably a better camera in some ways( iso 100- 3200, 8 mp, metal body).
but to me its just not worth the price differance. You can get a nice lens with the money you save buying a d70. my only nit with the d 70 is that when I use the self timer I have to reset it for every shot. Here' a link to a direct comparison to the two.
Mark.

http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/20dd70.htm