Nikon D70 VS. Canon 20D

[Pumpkin]

Am I asking the impossible? An unbiased opinion on these 2 brands? I have no loyality to either one. I have done lots of reading online but I would like to see what you guys have to say. I know an obvious difference if 8MP vs. 6MP. But does that make much of a difference? I currently have a Minolta A2 and its 8MP but I have never developed a picture larger than 8x10.

I am trading in my Minolta A2 for a true SLR digital. Is this a good move?

Will either of the lenses that come with either camera be enough for a while since I will not have the money to invest in another lense for some time? I also meant to add that I mainly do portrait work. That may help in your comments on the lenses.


I am leaning toward Nikon for the budget issue. I have read great stuff about it but not in direct comparison to the Canon.
Thanks in advance for your help on this issue!

Pumpkin

[SmartWombat]

I too have an A2, and I went to the toyshop - sorry camera shop - to try both.

I had already used the A1, Z1, and 300D to shoot at the same conference and had a feel for what I wanted. I know the A2 is better than the A1, but for motorsport it's not good. Mine has a few faults too, mainly it fails to focus, worst of all it gives the audible focus signal even when it fails - making it totally unreliable.

So I sat in the shop for an hour with the 20D, kit 18-55 lens, and the manual.
I really liked it, and wanted it. Until I tried manual focussing and was appalled at the lens.
There was about 1mm movement on the front element, and I could see the image displaced from one side of the central focus point to the other.
I tried another lens and it had the same flaw, so I suspect it's just a feature of the kit lens.
The A2 does it as well, and I don't like it on that camera, either.

The problem with the 20D is the size of the battery holder bulge on the right hand side.
It does not fit my hand, it is too wide on the front edge for my little and ring fingers to go around it and grip. After an hour my hand was hurting.

So, I turned to the D70.
It fit my hand like a glove, a beautiful feel.
I couldn't believe that the shape would make that much difference.
The outside of the battery holder is curved, and the front edge is half the thickness of the 20D which enables my hand to fit aroudn it and hold it.

Of course the D70 is also 130g lighter or so. Which made a big difference in the feel in my hand, feeling comparable to the Z1, A1, A2 which are all far lighter!

But oh, the lens was such a disappointment. More than 2mm movement and a really sloppy feel when I actually got my hands on it.
I'm sure the kit lenses I've tried are not indicative of the the quality of lenses like the 70-200 2.8G VR AF-S or the 2.8L IS USM

Autofocus on the D70 was so slow I could feel and see the difference compared to the 20D.
White balance on the 20D was far more consistent than the D70.
Burst mode on the D70 was glacial compared to the 20D.

On neither camera was the flash mode obvious, and balancing flash against daylight was hit and miss. It would be nice to have both the flash and ambient light metered together and shown on two parallel scales. Some camera must do this

Comparing the NIkon without manual and the Canon with manual it was pretty much a draw in terms of the controls and menus. The Canon manual wasn't detailed enough, and in places was incomprehensible. I guess the authors knew what they meant.

The Canon had overloaded buttons with multiple functions, and that main control dial that I couldn't operate holding the camera. True the Nikon has a few more buttons, but that makes it a little easier to use as a newcomer.


So which will I get?
Neither.
I wait for the D2X to compare it to the 20D.


But if I had to buy today?
The 20D definitely.
For motorsport with a long lens, even IS, I'll probably be using a monopod.
For wildlife, I'm likely to be using a tripod or monopod.
Even around town, I'm not going to hold the camera the whole time.
So I can convince myself that I can manage with the 20D


But the NIkon feels so good that I'm going to wait to try the D2X.
If they don't change the body out of all recognition, I'll probably buy that instead of the 20D.

Because I have small hands and the comfortable feel of the camera is important.
I think I can afford to make a non-technical decision


Lenses are comparable prices for what I hope is comparable lens.
Canon 16-35 2.8L USM £1095
Nikon 17-35 2.8 D £1060
Canon 70-200 2.8 L IS USM £1399
Nikon70-200 208 G VR AF-S £1090

So it's really not a big deal which I jump for, with no investment in either system today.

[Pumpkin]

SmartWombat, thanks so much for such a detailed opinion on the matter! At this time, I feel I must make a decison...My A2 is already on its way for appraisal value. If you HAD to choose between the D70, 20D, or A2 would you hang onto your A2 instead of one of the others? I was just not happy with the A2 performance...same as you mentioned, it would not focus correctly and would even show sometimes that it was in focus but was not...so I am ready to make a switch. I looked up the D2X and don't think that will be near my price range. To me it sounds like if you had to choose, you would choose the 20D. So thanks so much for your opinion. That really helped me figure some things out!

I would really like to hear someone out there who prefers the D70 and why.

Thanks again!

Pumpkin

[Pumpkin]

Hi Everyone! I just noticed another post in a different forum on this exact same subject so sorry for bringing up the same question! I will read that one as a reference but if you did not get to reply to the other one, I would still love your opinon!

Thanks!

[Seb]

Am I asking the impossible? An unbiased opinion on these 2 brands? I have no loyality to either one. I have done lots of reading online but I would like to see what you guys have to say. I know an obvious difference if 8MP vs. 6MP. But does that make much of a difference? I currently have a Minolta A2 and its 8MP but I have never developed a picture larger than 8x10.

I am trading in my Minolta A2 for a true SLR digital. Is this a good move?

Will either of the lenses that come with either camera be enough for a while since I will not have the money to invest in another lense for some time? I also meant to add that I mainly do portrait work. That may help in your comments on the lenses.


I am leaning toward Nikon for the budget issue. I have read great stuff about it but not in direct comparison to the Canon.
Thanks in advance for your help on this issue!

Pumpkin

Hello,

Having owned the D70 for more than 6 months now, I have to say the the 20D quite certainly is a more capable camera but this is strictly not a matter of saying Canon or Nikon is the best brand. The thing simply is that the 20D is an entry level pro DSLR while the D70 is more of an semi-pro DSLR. They aren't exactly targeted toward the same audience yet both are highly capable cameras.

My preference goes for the D70 as I never liked Canon ergonomics and their rather strange controls while Nikon ergonomics just feel plain natural and obvious to me (but that's just a personal preference). If you are into sport shooting, you should be concerned about the greater speed (fps rate) of the 20D, otherwise it's mostly a matter of trying both camera for yourself and judging which one you prefer.

My only concern about my D70 is that noise quickly show up when you shoot at faster speed than ISO 200. Most people seems to agree that CMOS sensor as used by Canon have better noise characteristics than CCD's sensors as used by Nikon. Other than that, the D70 is quite a camera.

Seb

[Pumpkin]

Thanks Seb! I do not take sports photography but have been asked at times by my husband to take pictures of him and his friends street skating. So could the D70 handle that or would the 20D handle that better? Bottom line, I mainly shoot portraits but may need to take other type of pictures occasionaly.

Again, thanks for your comments.

[Seb]

Thanks Seb! I do not take sports photography but have been asked at times by my husband to take pictures of him and his friends street skating. So could the D70 handle that or would the 20D handle that better? Bottom line, I mainly shoot portraits but may need to take other type of pictures occasionaly.

Again, thanks for your comments.

Well, I don't shoot sports so I am not exactly a reference but I would tend to say that the 3 fps of the D70 already is more than decent. Of course, the 20D provide you 2 more frames per second which is a significant difference but the fact remain that the D70 is a fast camera.

Since you are mostly into portrait it shouldn't be much of an issue for you but it's clear that out of those two, the 20D would be the weapon of choice for the serious sport photographer.

regards

Seb

[Sebastian]

You are comparing apples and oranges, the 20D is superior to the D70 in almost every respect.

As for ergonomics, they are a non-issue. I used to always say the same thing when I shot Nikon, "superior ergonomics, Canon has a weird layout, too many pushes," etc. It's all BS, after switching to Canon I find the Canon to be more complicated to use at first, but after learning it I actually am able to operate the camera and switch functions FASTER than I was ever able to do with the Nikons. What seems complicated at first opens up to be a well thought-out control scheme once you start using it. And, there is no arguing that Canon has superior noise characteristics than Nikon, primarily due to their CMOS technology. The files are buttery smooth, and most importantly to me, there are no dark color shifts at high ISOs like I experienced with the D100s, same thing that everyone complains about with the D2H, and to some extent the D70. The colors stay true throughout the entire ISO range, and that alone has saved me lots of time by having less color correction to do in post.

If you are looking at those two, the 20D is the hands-down winner. But like I said, they are different breeds of camera, and the comparison simply isn't all too fair. The 20D is closer to the D2h than it is to the D70, and Nikon really has nothing that competes with it yet. And at their pace of technological catch-up, it might be a while before they do...

[SmartWombat]

I realised in a few minutes that the D70 is in a different league from the 20D

It it wasn't for the D2X coming in January, I'd have bought the 20D.
But then the D2X is a step above the 20D in price

After that hour's use, I was pretty comfortable with the Canon.
Just that dial on the back for aperture setting in manual mode was hard to use.
But then using only Tv or Av solves that, as the control is on the front knob.

I reckon it's about honours even on the control systems.

I think I just convinced myself to spend a few thousand before Christmas.
Going for Canon leads to the full-frame sensors eventually, with lower noise for the same pixel count.
As a long term investment, unless Nikon changes its DX only sensor strategy, the Canon has an appeal for me.