Canon EOS10D vs Nikon D70 ?

[Little Pixel]

I'm in the market for an hight quality digital SLR camera.

My 1st camera : When I was 13-14, an 35mm SLR Olympus OM10 with 50mm lense
My actual 35mm SLR Minolta 7xi bought in 1991 with 1 lense : a zoom 28-105 f/3.5-5.6

I am balanced between Canon & Nikon :
- Canon EOS10D : near pro, 1 year old techno, secure production after 12 months, bigger but OLD CMOS, 500$ more expensive
- NIKON D70 : little less pro, new techno, incertain techno & production, CCD smaller (but less noise ?), cheapper.

2 very good camera, and a vey hard choice for an amateur without any previous lenses ( no Canon, no Nikon )

Several Questions :
- I can't make any error at that quality level but, What do you think about this choice ?

- lenses quality ? (sorry, I don't want to produce antoher fight. ;-) )
I haven't any experience or opinion : what do you think of the 2 concurents :
-> prices ?
-> choice in Canon / Nikon or compatible (Tamron, etc...) ?
-> quality ?

- Softwares, services, Difference

- How would you spend the 500 $US of diff. between the 2 bodies ?
-> in an expensive-good-but-old-pro-boddy (EOS 10D)
-> in a cheap-new-boddy with more accessories (for about 500$ : a flash ? a lense 50mm f/1.4 or 1.8 ? a zoom 80-200? )

My actual preference & budget :
- Nikon D70
- DX 18-70 f/3.5-4.5 = 1300 US$
- IBM microdrive 1Go = 350 US$ (?)
- Nikon Capture4.1, software for RAW files = ? (50 US$ ?)
- Other optional accessory/lense/flash about 350 US$
TOTAL 2050 US$

The expensive «chalenger» & budget :
- Canon EOS 10D = 1500 US$
- Lense 18-55 = 200 US$ (?)
- IBM microdrive 1Go = 350 US$ (?)
Total 2050 US$

Thanks
Didier alias Little Pixel

[ustein]

Actually the sensor in the D70 is slightly bigger. The multiplier for 10D is 1.6x and for D70 1.5x. Good Nikon lenses and good Canon lenses are both excellent. Canon has more image stabilized lenses.

You can be sure that the photographer is more limiting than any of these two cameras. Decide which lens system you want to get into.

Uwe

[yaronsh]

Personally, I'm waiting a while until more people have used the D70, Pentax *ist, , so that functional and reliablity issues begin to surface.

I'm talking about issues like the shutter lifetime issue on the Digital Rebel - the infamous Error 99 issue, in which the shutter conks out after about 2000 to 10,000 exposures, depending on whom you ask. Supposedly the intended lifetime of the DReb shutter is 4000 exposures.

Incidentally, from what I gather (from what I read on the Internet - and so it must be true!...), the 10D shutter is identical to the DReb shutter - has the same life expectancy. And yet, no one seems to be complaining about the 10D shutter... Do 10D users shoot less than DReb users? Guess you could argue that 10D users get it right the first time more often...

- Yaron

[darkman]

Actually the sensor in the D70 is slightly bigger. The multiplier for 10D is 1.6x and for D70 1.5x. Good Nikon lenses and good Canon lenses are both excellent. Canon has more image stabilized lenses.

You can be sure that the photographer is more limiting than any of these two cameras. Decide which lens system you want to get into.

Uwe

The difference in sensor size is even less than the 1.5 vs 1.6 lead us to believe since these are both rounded number with the canon rounding up and the nikon rounding down.

However, I agree with ustein. Look over each system and decide which you like. After evaluation, I ultimately ended up with a canon system mostly because I like the way the elan7 fit in my hand over the n80. Some people put a bigger price on size over ergonomics.

I wouldn't worry about "techno" as much as the web will lead you to believe. Now that I'm shooting with a 10d I'm as satisfied as I've ever been with it's quality. It does everything my elan7 did and both do much much more than my oly 0m-2n and 0m-1. Plus, even though I was initially concerned, I'm finding in practice I'm making prints as large as I did with 35mm film without problems. In some ways they're even better.

[Sebastian]

After having shot Nikon for 7 years, I have to sugget Canon. I just switched over myself, and I am amazed at the difference. Image quality is slightly better on the 10D than the D100s I had, and ergonomics though seemingly idiotic at first, are allowing me to work faster and more intuitively with the camera now that I use it almost daily. They have more options in sensor size, they are either the same price or cheaper for more feature-rich products, and they really listen more to the end users.

I think Nikon would be fine for you, but I suggest you go with Canon and do it right the first time around. If you were shooting film it really would not be enough of a difference to matter, but we're talking digital and Canon is way ahead.

BTW, where did you see the 18-55 for sale?? I thought it only came bundled with the DRebel?

[Alex D]

After having shot Nikon for 7 years, I have to sugget Canon. I just switched over myself, and I am amazed at the difference. Image quality is slightly better on the 10D than the D100s I had, and ergonomics though seemingly idiotic at first, are allowing me to work faster and more intuitively with the camera now that I use it almost daily. They have more options in sensor size, they are either the same price or cheaper for more feature-rich products, and they really listen more to the end users.

I think Nikon would be fine for you, but I suggest you go with Canon and do it right the first time around. If you were shooting film it really would not be enough of a difference to matter, but we're talking digital and Canon is way ahead.

BTW, where did you see the 18-55 for sale?? I thought it only came bundled with the DRebel?

Newbie here ....... this question is becoming acute for me soon too ..... I am impressed with the Nikon D70 comparison to the D100 .... the D70 seems actually to be an improved version of the D100, just in a cheaper frame. But both are within range for me, the D70 and the EOS 10D. The EOS is about $200 more in street price. More input from anyone is welcome here too............... until then I'll continue to shoot my beautiful stable of OMs

[Asylum Steve]

ergonomics though seemingly idiotic at first, are allowing me to work faster and more intuitively with the camera now that I use it almost daily.

Man, you got me curious. What exactly made you feel this way? The 10D is configured very similar to the EOS pro film bodies, so for me it was an easy transition.

Of course, I have nothing else to compare it to...

[Franglais]

I'm in the market for an hight quality digital SLR camera.

My 1st camera : When I was 13-14, an 35mm SLR Olympus OM10 with 50mm lense
My actual 35mm SLR Minolta 7xi bought in 1991 with 1 lense : a zoom 28-105 f/3.5-5.6

I am balanced between Canon & Nikon :
- Canon EOS10D : near pro, 1 year old techno, secure production after 12 months, bigger but OLD CMOS, 500$ more expensive
- NIKON D70 : little less pro, new techno, incertain techno & production, CCD smaller (but less noise ?), cheapper.

2 very good camera, and a vey hard choice for an amateur without any previous lenses ( no Canon, no Nikon )

Several Questions :
- I can't make any error at that quality level but, What do you think about this choice ?

- lenses quality ? (sorry, I don't want to produce antoher fight. ;-) )
I haven't any experience or opinion : what do you think of the 2 concurents :
-> prices ?
-> choice in Canon / Nikon or compatible (Tamron, etc...) ?
-> quality ?

- Softwares, services, Difference

- How would you spend the 500 $US of diff. between the 2 bodies ?
-> in an expensive-good-but-old-pro-boddy (EOS 10D)
-> in a cheap-new-boddy with more accessories (for about 500$ : a flash ? a lense 50mm f/1.4 or 1.8 ? a zoom 80-200? )

My actual preference & budget :
- Nikon D70
- DX 18-70 f/3.5-4.5 = 1300 US$
- IBM microdrive 1Go = 350 US$ (?)
- Nikon Capture4.1, software for RAW files = ? (50 US$ ?)
- Other optional accessory/lense/flash about 350 US$
TOTAL 2050 US$

The expensive «chalenger» & budget :
- Canon EOS 10D = 1500 US$
- Lense 18-55 = 200 US$ (?)
- IBM microdrive 1Go = 350 US$ (?)
Total 2050 US$

Thanks
Didier alias Little Pixel

This has been an interesting conversation so far, but nobody as pointed out that the 18-55 EF-S lens that comes with the Rebel won't fit any other EOS body, including the 10D. It has short back focus i.e. the lens protrudes too far into the camera body.

I wouldn't call the CMOS sensor in the 10D "old". It's the same as in the 300D. The Nikon D70 uses a modified Sony CCD sensor that was released at about the same time (2 years ago).

I wouldn't go along with this "high quality almost pro secure production" stuff either. All these cameras use a lot of parts from advanced amateur film bodies (F80 & EOS30).

Charles

[Alex D]

The 10D though clearly stands out in body quality (compared to the Digital Rebel and the D70) since it is a metal body .... I have handked the Rebel body before (35mm) and it fells downright cheap! Can't say about the D70, but it is also plastic. The other issue is that in tests the Canon CMOS is always ranking on top. Canon is the only manufacturer still maing their own sensor and they are continuing to do so to develop top sensors and not to be dependent on suppliers.

Here's the point in a review:
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Going against the market trend of purchasing CCD sensors from third party manufacturers, Canon chose instead to pursue its own CMOS development program. Research and development investment has resulted in sensors with higher speed, higher resolution, lower noise and minimal power consumption when compared to competing CCD technology. The launch of the EOS 1D Mark II represents a strategic move for Canon, which now has its own CMOS sensors installed across its entire D-SLR range.

Canon considers in house manufacture of all key D-SLR components to be of significant strategic advantage. Canon is now the only manufacturer to offer a choice of digital SLRs with 3 different sensor sizes.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Franglais]

The 10D though clearly stands out in body quality (compared to the Digital Rebel and the D70) since it is a metal body .... I have handked the Rebel body before (35mm) and it fells downright cheap! Can't say about the D70, but it is also plastic. The other issue is that in tests the Canon CMOS is always ranking on top. Canon is the only manufacturer still maing their own sensor and they are continuing to do so to develop top sensors and not to be dependent on suppliers.

Here's the point in a review:
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Going against the market trend of purchasing CCD sensors from third party manufacturers, Canon chose instead to pursue its own CMOS development program. Research and development investment has resulted in sensors with higher speed, higher resolution, lower noise and minimal power consumption when compared to competing CCD technology. The launch of the EOS 1D Mark II represents a strategic move for Canon, which now has its own CMOS sensors installed across its entire D-SLR range.

Canon considers in house manufacture of all key D-SLR components to be of significant strategic advantage. Canon is now the only manufacturer to offer a choice of digital SLRs with 3 different sensor sizes.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I think that most of the points you raise are marketing arguments. Believe what you want to believe:

Metal body vs plastic body: lots of Canon EOS3 owners would swear that a platic body doesn't make any difference.

Canon sensor comes out top on tests: most of the comparisons I've seen in the 300D/10D/D100/S2 market put the Fuji sensor first. They are all close and it seems that each one is more suited to a particular subject.

Canon CMOS sensor is higher speed than CCD: The CMOS sensor used in the 300D & 10D is 100ISO (native) while the CCD used in the D100 is 200ISO.

Advantage of Canon making their own sensors: the other manufacturers share the R&D costs by buying Sony.

Advantage of having 3 sensor sizes: Just having one sensor size allows you to optimise your lens line just for that one size.

Charles

[Sebastian]

Man, you got me curious. What exactly made you feel this way? The 10D is configured very similar to the EOS pro film bodies, so for me it was an easy transition.

Of course, I have nothing else to compare it to...

Steve,

The Nikons were very easy to handle. Turn the dial to ISO, rotate the dial to change the ISO. With the Canon I was first very put off by the "push this, turn that, make sure the back dial is turned on" sort of interface. It just seems needlessly complicated to me. I got used to it, and ti works quickly, but I still think that the F100 had the best ergonomics of any body I ever owned. Push a button with one finger, and the dial under the opposite finger is the one to turn. The Canon is still guess work with some functions, which dial do I turn? I am memorizing the right combinations, but I don't feel like I should have to. Nikon makes it so easy for me, why can't Canon, you know? I am sure it's just how I think, but the Nikons were always much closer to the analog shutter dial/aperture ring interface of the old manual focus bodies. Canon has many awesome features, lots of customizability, but I think it's just a bit too cumbersome to get a handle on quickly.

Kapish?

[Franglais]

Chasseurs d'Images just published a test of the definitive D70. They gave it 5/5 on just about everything except use in the studio (damn). The only big surprise is that its new flash system makes it incompatible with previous Nikon flashes, including the SB80 (damn).

It looks like a real winner with the 18-55. If I were you I'd wait till there have been more tests and people have been able to compare it with the 10D.

Charles

[Alex D]

Good point Franglais ............. this is the conclusion that I am coming to more and more myself ....... the 10D is an awsome camera, but the D70 holds many promises and we just have to see more comparos ... I will probably wait until later this year and continue with my fine line of OMs (I'll never sell those cameras, they just keep appreciating )

[daweazel]

I split my usage between nikon and canon for different subject matter. But there have been anouncements coming out of Canon that they have plans to release a load of new models in their digital camera lines this year and there's no doubt there will be at least one or two new DSLRs. Worst thing it could do is drive down the prices.

[Aratharu]

I'm talking about issues like the shutter lifetime issue on the Digital Rebel - the infamous Error 99 issue, in which the shutter conks out after about 2000 to 10,000 exposures, depending on whom you ask. Supposedly the intended lifetime of the DReb shutter is 4000 exposures.

Is this what Canon says about the DRebel? 4000 exposures doesn't seem like a lot, and 2000 even less! What happens when the shutter dies, does Canon warranty it or is it a repair expense? Or is it cheaper to buy a new camera?

[yaronsh]

Is this what Canon says about the DRebel? 4000 exposures doesn't seem like a lot, and 2000 even less! What happens when the shutter dies, does Canon warranty it or is it a repair expense? Or is it cheaper to buy a new camera?

I've never heard/read this directly from Canon. There don't seem to be any complaints about DReb functionality on this forum, but on dpreview there are some, and a search for "Err 99" would bring up talk about the shutter issue. (But dpreview seems like a more choleric forum to begin with.)

I've actually bought a DReb since posting my earlier comment. But I bought it with a Best Buy 4-year parts/labor warranty for defects as well as normal wear-n-tear (paid $100 extra), which, at this point, I think may be a good idea with any digital SLR or "SLR-like" camera.

To answer your question, sounds like either you send it to Canon for repair (at cost), or return it to the store where you bought it, and if they're cool, or if you've bought their warranty plan, they replace it. Again, disclaimer: This is hearsay.

- Yaron

[Sean Dempsey]

In one month, I took over 3000 images with my Drebel before I sold it to buy a 10D.

Never had a single problem with the Drebel.

I am hoping that the 10D is just as reliable.