Would you defend your gear?

[Gabe]

A guy at work started talking about getting mugged, and not fighting back. He said if he ever got mugged, he would just give up everything readily and be glad to walk away with his life. I said I'd usually do the same (my wallet's never worth much anyway, lol), unless I had the camera gear. Maybe, in theory, I'd think that I would let it go, but I know instinct would take over and I'd start fighting.

How do I know? Several years ago, I was shooting a late-night gig in a hole-in-the-wall dive in a nasty area - I had to park in the dirt, in the dark, across the street. Back then, I still had the steal-me bag - an emerald green Canon jobbie - and as I'm walking back to the car, some guy comes out of nowhere and starts asking for money. I always have a knife on me (it's a Miami thing). On this night I had one with a fixed blade, in its sheath, and it wouldn't fit anywhere but the back of my jeans. I couldn't sit down in the car with it on like that, so I started to take it out...

That's when the guy, now following me, says, "Oh I don't care that you got a knife..."

So I pulled it out all the way, stopped and turned to him. I put my arm around his shoulders - right around his neck - and had the knife ready in my other hand. I told him, in nothing short of a friendly way, that I had no intention of hurting him, as long as he didn't get stupid, and I had no money on me anyway. At this point I still had the camera bag on me. He realized he had let himself get into a very bad situation, and walked the hell away. I could have stabbed him numerous times before anyone could have come to help, and he knew it.

And I would have done it, too .. without a moment's thought. The gear and my bike are the only lifeless things I'd hurt someone over, and I'd do it instinctively. And I'm not really a violent person...
What would you guys have done, or would do in a similar situation, if you had $1000+ of camera gear on you at the time?

(For the record, my newspaper sends me to similar areas all the time, but I now carry a very nondescript satchel-type bag and no one has ever bothered me at all.)

[Asylum Steve]

Hey Gabe,

I think we can probably swap a few horror stories (or at least close calls), as my years shooting for New Times took me to "fun spots" such as Overtown, Liberty City, and Carol City on occasion. Oh, yes, did I mention at night?

The two things you said that I instantly related to are the non-descript camera bag and the knife. Yep, I had them too. Also pepper spray. I'll tell you, I sure wish I had had a cell phone back in those days. It might not have been ironclad protection, but it would have made me FEEL a lot safer...

One other thing I always carried when I worked bad areas was a cheap point & shoot camera that I held when I was walking around. More than once some "young men" came up to me asking if my camera was expensive. I would show them the p&s and simply say, "This piece of junk? Are you kidding? I can't afford good camera gear!". And that usually did the trick.

BTW, I also offered to take their picture. You'd be surprised how often a gesture that simple diffuses a situation. I think that's a universal thing (people wanting their picture in the paper), and obviously if they take my camera, there is no way I can put their picture in the paper. All I know is it's worked more than once.

As for defending my gear, that's really hard to say. Unlike a loved one, my equipment is all replacable. And insured. And while I might be furious later, I don't think I would instinctively defend camera equipment. Not unless it was some punk I know I could take.

In fact, the only thing that I would struggle not to lose (or feel bad about losing) would be the pictures I shot.

I actually was mugged once while shooting in Rego Park (Queens, NYC). I was a dumb collge kid back then who (believe it or not) rode the subway with my SLR around my neck. Well, some kids followed me off the train, and in broad daylight on the street knocked me down and took my stuff.

I remember at the time yelling at them as they ran away, "PLEASE! Just leave me the film!", meaning the roll in the camera that I had just shot in Manhattan.

That pretty much sums up how I still feel...

A guy at work started talking about getting mugged, and not fighting back. He said if he ever got mugged, he would just give up everything readily and be glad to walk away with his life. I said I'd usually do the same (my wallet's never worth much anyway, lol), unless I had the camera gear. Maybe, in theory, I'd think that I would let it go, but I know instinct would take over and I'd start fighting.

How do I know? Several years ago, I was shooting a late-night gig in a hole-in-the-wall dive in a nasty area - I had to park in the dirt, in the dark, across the street. Back then, I still had the steal-me bag - an emerald green Canon jobbie - and as I'm walking back to the car, some guy comes out of nowhere and starts asking for money. I always have a knife on me (it's a Miami thing). On this night I had one with a fixed blade, in its sheath, and it wouldn't fit anywhere but the back of my jeans. I couldn't sit down in the car with it on like that, so I started to take it out...

That's when the guy, now following me, says, "Oh I don't care that you got a knife..."

So I pulled it out all the way, stopped and turned to him. I put my arm around his shoulders - right around his neck - and had the knife ready in my other hand. I told him, in nothing short of a friendly way, that I had no intention of hurting him, as long as he didn't get stupid, and I had no money on me anyway. At this point I still had the camera bag on me. He realized he had let himself get into a very bad situation, and walked the hell away. I could have stabbed him numerous times before anyone could have come to help, and he knew it.

And I would have done it, too .. without a moment's thought. The gear and my bike are the only lifeless things I'd hurt someone over, and I'd do it instinctively. And I'm not really a violent person...
What would you guys have done, or would do in a similar situation, if you had $1000+ of camera gear on you at the time?

(For the record, my newspaper sends me to similar areas all the time, but I now carry a very nondescript satchel-type bag and no one has ever bothered me at all.)

[Speed]

A guy at work started talking about getting mugged, and not fighting back. He said if he ever got mugged, he would just give up everything readily and be glad to walk away with his life. I said I'd usually do the same (my wallet's never worth much anyway, lol), unless I had the camera gear. Maybe, in theory, I'd think that I would let it go, but I know instinct would take over and I'd start fighting.

How do I know? Several years ago, I was shooting a late-night gig in a hole-in-the-wall dive in a nasty area - I had to park in the dirt, in the dark, across the street. Back then, I still had the steal-me bag - an emerald green Canon jobbie - and as I'm walking back to the car, some guy comes out of nowhere and starts asking for money. I always have a knife on me (it's a Miami thing). On this night I had one with a fixed blade, in its sheath, and it wouldn't fit anywhere but the back of my jeans. I couldn't sit down in the car with it on like that, so I started to take it out...

That's when the guy, now following me, says, "Oh I don't care that you got a knife..."

So I pulled it out all the way, stopped and turned to him. I put my arm around his shoulders - right around his neck - and had the knife ready in my other hand. I told him, in nothing short of a friendly way, that I had no intention of hurting him, as long as he didn't get stupid, and I had no money on me anyway. At this point I still had the camera bag on me. He realized he had let himself get into a very bad situation, and walked the hell away. I could have stabbed him numerous times before anyone could have come to help, and he knew it.

And I would have done it, too .. without a moment's thought. The gear and my bike are the only lifeless things I'd hurt someone over, and I'd do it instinctively. And I'm not really a violent person...
What would you guys have done, or would do in a similar situation, if you had $1000+ of camera gear on you at the time?

(For the record, my newspaper sends me to similar areas all the time, but I now carry a very nondescript satchel-type bag and no one has ever bothered me at all.)

Like you, I carry a pocket knife on me. I also study Tae Kwon Do. I'd like to think I could defend myself. But whether I do will depend on the situation.

I carry a no-name camera bag (read low-profile) with over $1000 of camera equipment in it (probably closer to $2000). I don't want to just hand that over to someone. Conversely, I'm not ready to die over a couple of cameras and some lenses. And I'd really hate to severely hurt or kill someone over it if there is another way of dealing with the situation.

Currently, in most of the USA (you know where I mean) you can defend yourself and your property. The question comes down to common sense and reasonable force. In a one-on-one confrontation, I'm very likely to defend my gear. Unless he's got a gun - then the gear is his! Also, if I'm confronted by multiple thugs, I'd like to think I'd chose discretion as the better part of valor and live to fight another day. Who knows until you're in the situation?

But thinking about it, and realizing that it is a possibility is something that will help you deal with the situation if you are ever confronted. I spent over seven years on active duty in the Air Force. I planned on making it a career, but the reductions in '92 put an end to it. I consider myself a military man. I spent a large part of my adolesent and young adult life preparing for it. So I consider myself a warrior - a fighter. And I know my first instinct is going to be fighting for my gear.

[Gabe]

It's good to know that I'm not the only one with these concerns. I, too, would rather not have to hurt someone if I can avoid it, but will do so quite quickly if necessary.

Steve, the place I was talking about was, incidentally, Churchill's in Overtown, Saturday night around 1 AM. The paper I work for, Caribbean Today, routinely sends me to Liberty City and Carol City, etc. It really doesn't bother me - I grew up, in part, in Little Havana, and I saw more stuff out there in six years than I ever have in all my late-night visits to the aforementioned spots. I also know quite a few people from the North Miami area, so I know that as long as I watch out for myself, these areas are not quite as bad as the news makes them out to be. You just have to be on full alert at all times.

Speed, I've had guns pointed at me in traffic several times already. My response has always been a middle finger, a smile, and a phone call to the police. In fact, I ran one lady in a big ol' SUV right off the road. But now that I'm on a bike, I'm assuming I won't be so cavalier about it (when it eventually happens again) as it's not as "safe" as a car - so I expect that in a one-on-one situation with some punk with a gun, I'll probably just let it go. It depends on how ready that gun is ...

[Asylum Steve]

Steve, the place I was talking about was, incidentally, Churchill's in Overtown, Saturday night around 1 AM.

Gabe, the only Churchill's I know is the British Pub. For a long time, it was my home away from home, but the one I knew was a lot farther north, a little bit north of the Design District (I think the street was in the 60s a bit west of Biscayne).

Is this the place you're talking about. And if so, does Dave still own it?

Just a little reminiscing...

[p220sigmans]

I think it would all depend on the situation and who else was with me. Like everyone else here, I keep my gear in a non-discript bag for walking around. That being said, I don't "own" anything that is worth dying over. I'm sure that if you are familiar with weapons and notice my screen name, I carry more than just my knife at almost all times, so I'm pretty well trained and prepared to defend my life if necessary. I would not however get invovled in a confrontation if my family were present though because that puts too many variables into the equation. I have avoided some confrontations while with my family for this very reason.
Just my random thoughts.
Terry

[adina]

But then again, I'm a big sissy.

Not usually in places that it would be a concern, but not foolish enough to think it can't happen. If and when it does, I'll hand it over. Insurance would replace the camera, and I can't imagine having anything on it that is worth the potential risk. There are things in my life far more important, and I would hate to lose them over a minor (yes, minor, no matter how much money it cost me) piece of plastic/metal. To me, it is not worth the risk, and you never know just how far the other person is ready to take it.

adina

[Gabe]

Steve, it may not have been Overtown then... I remember being told that it was, but 60-something street and US 1 sounds more like it. It was about eight years ago so I don't remember too well. As for the owner, sorry ... I wouldn't know Last I heard they had mud wrestling/punk rock nights over there, but I never did go back after that night.

Some of you have mentioned insurance .. I've been meaning to get some but I don't have any at all on the cameras. I don't have a home to have homeowner's insurance for, so I can't put the gear in there ... I think the NPPA offers insurance, though.

p220, you have a point about choosing to keep someone with you safe intead of fighting for the bag of gear ... but I'm usually on my own when on assignment so that's not normally a concern.

adina, nothing wrong with choosing not to fight. Most people would not, really. However, I should point out that my willingness to fight has nothing to do with money - other than that I don't have enough of it to immediately replace the lost gear. The camera is my life. It's my career, and almost a lifelong dream to be a photographer. They may be a little outdated (even the D30 I just got on eBay) but these cameras mean the world to me. Not to mention the film (or cards) ... I once jumped off a 10-foot high boardwalk and into a muddy pit full of water snakes because a roll of film had fallen out of my pocket and into the snakes' playground. Just to give you an idea of my dedication ... ;)

[Hatrick]

Some of you have mentioned insurance .. I've been meaning to get some but I don't have any at all on the cameras. I don't have a home to have homeowner's insurance for, so I can't put the gear in there

If you have renter's insurance, your stuff might be covered. Since you don't own you should look into renter's insurance. It's basically the same thing, with a much lower liability limit. When my neighbor's house burned down a few years back, my roommates and I all called our car insurance companies the next day to sign up for renter's insurance.

But, as for defending my gear... I am like Steve. Just leave the film or disk and you can have everything else. Besides, I not exactly a big person (5'4", 110 lbs), so I doubt I could "take on" anybody that tried to mug me.

[Pose]

I'm a stupid kid, of course I'd defend myself over my gear. I wouldn't fight clean at all, though, the camera would probably be broken against their head. I regularly walk around at night in the Miami area (until the police stop me usually), so it's probably only a matter of time. I'm a big guy though (6'2", 210lbs) with a couple of years of martial arts under his belt (Kenpo), so I guess I'll see when the time comes.

[Hatrick]

I'm a big guy though (6'2", 210lbs) with a couple of years of martial arts under his belt (Kenpo),

I only have many years of competitive running under my belt... so I'd grab my film and run away so fast I'd be a blur! LOL

[wslandry3]

If I wanted to hide the Nikon log on my F100 what black tape of any could I use not to take of the log off or leave a sticky residue.? I'm sure this question has been asked before but please bear with me. I'm not sure also about getting shot or really hurt over gear that can be replaced. It's a crazy world out there sometimes

Thank you!

[darkrainfall]

Interesting question... I would like to think I would defend my gear, but I don't know how well I could. The closest I have ever come to it is the time I was shooting in East St. Louis. It was my first time to Missouri, I had been looking at a college and my mother had rode out with me (I'm from Maryland) and what I didn't know was that East St. Louis is the most dangerous part of town, even the people who live in St. Louis won't go down there, but it has the best view of the Arch, so we stopped. I walked up to the river front with my camera, took a few pics and took a minute to look around and realized that I did not want to be down there in the dark anymore. I hustled my mother back to the car and I was just a bit concerned by the looks I was getting, so I just threw my gear in the back and we got out of there. I haven't been back there yet to take any other pics, but when I do, I'll be sure to have at least pepper spray and I'll do a much better job of hiding my camara and other gear... and if I can talk anyone into going with me, I won't go alone. It's always best to be safe.

[paulnj]

quick answer....

have, can and will again

btw people.... it's not the size of the man in the fight , but the fight in the man... hehehe

i leave my house ALONE and have $1000 binoculars and a 1D/100-400 on my shoulder.....

people just don't want to bother me much?? NYC, rough areas along the waterways(perth amboy, asbury, phili... s. phili even), houston(crips, bloods, LK...), down town VEGAS(can you say SCARY)

basicly it's all how one carries himself. i do not look like a easy target, therefore I don't need to prove that i'm a member of NRA to people who want a fast buck.

is a camera worth one's life? to me it is due to the simple fact that I WORKED FOR IT!!!!

[Gabe]

is a camera worth one's life? to me it is due to the simple fact that I WORKED FOR IT!!!!

You got that damn right... :thumbsup:

wslandry, how about replacing that strap with a Domke Gripper strap? They're only like $10, come in different colors, and IMO, are better straps than the factory style. And they don't say anything on them at all ... I have them on both my film bodies.

[Acadia25]

Interesting thoughts.

I would not defend my gear, even if I was alone. If one of my friends or family were to get killed, or maimed, defending their camera gear (or wedding ring, or car, or wallet) it would make a terrible situation worse, because of my natural feelings of anger towards them about risking so much for something that was replaceable (easier for some to replace than others, but still not worth the risk.) I imagine that the people in my life who care about me would feel the same way.

I agree with the sentiments that someone who tries to take something that is not their's should be stopped. Unfortunately, even a person whom you could obviously "could take" can carry a concealed weapon, and end a fight very quickly, and for you, very badly. It's not worth it.

I have some background in martial arts, am fit and feel like in a fair fight I literally have a "fighting chance." "Fair" and "Chance" are the operative words. What fight is fair these days and what if you take that "chance" and lose? How valuable is the item you were defending then? What was the opportunity cost? If I had to defend my person, or someone I love, then I would fight ferociously. But short of that, I would try to avoid the conflict by any means. There is greater honor, and prudence, in that - as most martial arts teach.

Just my opinion and I certainly respect yours. Best regards and stay safe!