Rightly irritated or over-reacting? a minor vent

[adina]

Here's the background info.

Whenever I get a shot I really like of my girls, or our family, or whatever, personal shots, I usually email them to grammas and grampas. We don't see everyone on a fairly regular basis, so I thought this would be a nice way to keep them up to date on the growth of everyone over here. Be it snapshots or seriously thought out, took-me-lots-of-work shots.

One of my in-laws is going thru their photos, both prints and things that have been emailed, putting them together on a cd, and sending them to different relations. We got ours this weekend, and I just got around to looking at them.

Imagine my surprise when I see that quite a few of the shots I had emailed over the years have been cropped and chopped up to show only what they wanted. Not only just snapshots, which were chopped up to remove people they didn't want in there, but photos I had worked hard on, and after numerous attempts, finally got what I wanted.

Example. A while back, I posted a pic of my oldest daughter and myself. I was (still am) trying to get photos of us that show relationship, and this was one of the very first that I really loved. In the photo, I had a v-neck tank top on. Now I am assuming this was cropped because they felt that perhaps there was too much skin. BUT THEY CHOPPED AN INCH OFF THE BOTTOM! I loved that photo! Exactly how it was, and partly because I worked so hard to get it! Now not only is parts of my body missing, but my hand is cut in half and missing fingers. There was no nudity, there wasn't any boob hanging out, you couldn't see nipples, it was just low cut. You couldn't even see cleavage because my arm was up, on my daughters hand. And I am 99% sure the reason it was chopped up was because of the amount of skin.

So I am a bit irritated. And while these were not great masterpieces, and were basically family pics, some just snapshots, how I sent them is how I wanted to look. I know I would not alter a picture they sent me unless they asked me to. And even then, I wouldn't ship it out to other people, I'd just send it back to them.

Am I over-reacting? I'm waiting to mention it to them until it's not such a fresh thing, and I'm not so irritated about it.

adina

[Spike]

Adina,

The first thing I'd be annoyed about is that they did not check with you first about including your photos. I'm sure you would have given them permission, but they should have asked. Tell them how surprised you were. Maybe they'll get the hint.

Then I would let them know that in the future, if they didn't like your photos as-is, you don't want them to pass them along. Tell them you would really prefer they were not editted, cropped, or "corrected" in any way. I would soften the blow by thanking them for all the work they did in creating the cd to share with everyone.

Spike

[Asylum Steve]

Adina,

You CERTAINLY have a right to be miffed about what you describe, but the truth is you're a willing participant in this simply because you sent out all these images in the first place.

Human nature being what it is, this type of thing has always gone on. The ease of doing this in the digital age just amplifies the idea.

I think a lot of people think possession is ALL TENTHS of the law, and once they have family snapsots (I'm talking in general, I know your pics reflect a lot of careful work) in their grimy little hands, they feel they can crop, cut, or do whatever to them to suit their own use.

I know it seems unfair, because you end up being punished for your generosity. On the other hand, they may be completely oblivious to how their "editing" upsets you. Sadly, most people don't put a lot of thought into their family photos, and it may never have occured to them that you do...

The problem is this is not a commercial publishing issue, it's a family issue, other wise you could threaten to sue their a$$...

Still, you have a right to expect people, even relatives, to respect the integrity of your hard work. IMO, it's a roll of the dice to voice your feelings to them about this. On the one hand, maybe it's a simple misunderstanding, and when they realize how seriously you take your photography, and how what they're doing effects you, perhaps they'll stop.

Then again, this may open up a can of worms that eventually leads to nobody sharing family photos with anybody. And that would be a shame.

If it were me, I think I'd say something about it...

Here's the background info.

Whenever I get a shot I really like of my girls, or our family, or whatever, personal shots, I usually email them to grammas and grampas. We don't see everyone on a fairly regular basis, so I thought this would be a nice way to keep them up to date on the growth of everyone over here. Be it snapshots or seriously thought out, took-me-lots-of-work shots.

One of my in-laws is going thru their photos, both prints and things that have been emailed, putting them together on a cd, and sending them to different relations. We got ours this weekend, and I just got around to looking at them.

Imagine my surprise when I see that quite a few of the shots I had emailed over the years have been cropped and chopped up to show only what they wanted. Not only just snapshots, which were chopped up to remove people they didn't want in there, but photos I had worked hard on, and after numerous attempts, finally got what I wanted.

Example. A while back, I posted a pic of my oldest daughter and myself. I was (still am) trying to get photos of us that show relationship, and this was one of the very first that I really loved. In the photo, I had a v-neck tank top on. Now I am assuming this was cropped because they felt that perhaps there was too much skin. BUT THEY CHOPPED AN INCH OFF THE BOTTOM! I loved that photo! Exactly how it was, and partly because I worked so hard to get it! Now not only is parts of my body missing, but my hand is cut in half and missing fingers. There was no nudity, there wasn't any boob hanging out, you couldn't see nipples, it was just low cut. You couldn't even see cleavage because my arm was up, on my daughters hand. And I am 99% sure the reason it was chopped up was because of the amount of skin.

So I am a bit irritated. And while these were not great masterpieces, and were basically family pics, some just snapshots, how I sent them is how I wanted to look. I know I would not alter a picture they sent me unless they asked me to. And even then, I wouldn't ship it out to other people, I'd just send it back to them.

Am I over-reacting? I'm waiting to mention it to them until it's not such a fresh thing, and I'm not so irritated about it.

adina

[Sebastian]

I understand where you're coming from. Are you over-reacting? I don't think so. We put so much of ourselves into these images, it's hard not to become attached. Seperatig yourself from critique the image receives is one thing, but to give it to someone in good faith and have them change it is another.

What I think is happening is a lcak of communication. To you these images mean a lot, to the other family members they may mean nothing. Let them know how much goes into your work, and let them know that you don't want the pictures modified. I don't think that is an unreasonable request at all, and if they respect you they will honor it. If not...well that's for you to decide.

I just ran into this with a person that insisted that I had no right turning my reflection image upside down, and that she was going to hang it rightside up, NOT the way I envisioned, besides the fact that it would completely destroy the impact of the image, and therefore its POINT. I spent probably half an hour politely asking her to reconsider, finally telling her that I would be offended if she did not comply, and that seemed to do it. When I go to her house I will have to check to make sure...

Grrrr...

Stuff like this is making me think about selling pre-matted or even framed prints. That way people won't be tempted to screw with them.

[natatbeach]

My family knows I would FLIP if they altered any of my shots/they are pretty good about being respectful of those sort of things and the way I've gone around it when there was the potential of cropping was by sending them the shots in the smallest and lowest quality possible---and usually I get a " can we get another copy of this" sort of response... from the start I've always let them know HOW much my photography means to me and have ALWAYS made it very clear that if they need anything removed or altered I would love to do it for them....

I'm sorry it sounds like it's a frustrating situation... It's funny ---someone wouldn't take a monet print and hack a flower out of it it if it didn't work for them but they don't show the same respect and coutesy towards other artists...

definitely diffuse then communicate

[adina]

Is probably the biggest cause. I'm sure if I'd have said "hey I worked hard on these, please don't butcher them" then they wouldn't have. But I assumed that they would have respected that, without me having to spell it out.

Live and learn, I guess. And like Steve said, being a family situation, it gets a bit more complicated.

For now, though, just not going to send anything that way.

adina

[paulnj]

BAD MOVE!!!!!!!!!
my family (unlike me) knows what's right and wrong.... and that's PLAIN WRONG!!!!

ASK THEM ......

"If I think the meal you cook on thanksgiving needs seasoning... can i add them without your permission?"

btw... post this image again, i'll assess the "too much skin" ;o

hehehe

[adina]

This was the one, it was cropped right thru my hand. Most of the other cropped ones were entire people taken out.

adina

[another view]

And while these were not great masterpieces, and were basically family pics, some just snapshots, how I sent them is how I wanted to look.

Hey, that was a great shot - I remember it. I think most normal people (read: non-photographers) just don't understand how a photographer feels about one of their images. For most of us, we shoot many, many more shots than we actually share with people - only the best ones that we're proud of. They don't see the time and effort involved. Maybe you've got a grab shot that you really like - but it's your shot and you have a right to be proud of it. You would have cropped it or any other shot if you felt it needed to be done.

I remember Seb's shot too - when he took it I thought "what's he doing?" but said "wow!" when I saw the finished result. Maybe he saw it as being displayed upside down before he shot it, maybe afterwards. Either way, it's his shot and it's how he wants it displayed. Enough said (plus, it looks great that way).

I'd talk to them - but being family it probably can get difficult. Maybe someone got that neat new image editing program and wants to show you how clever they are with it or something. They probably just don't realize how important your work is to you.

[paulnj]

i see no "boob shot"

besides! you have a great figure and SHOULD be PROUD to show it off TASTEFULLY!!!!!!

now your daughter...... she's nearly showing too much skin !

i can see her face, neck, upper chest, arm and a piece of the side of her stomach.... oh racey indeed!!!!

besides those feet in your avatar are more provocative to uptight closet freaks than a mother/daughter shot without winter clothing ;)

this image is GREAT AS IS!!!!!!

tell the family wisconsin hasn't moved to the persian gulf yet, NOR WILL IT!

better yet.... tell them that winter lasts far too long and your proud to say you enjoy when it's warm enough to dress casual!!!!!!

[Lara]

Adina, I'm learning a lot just by reading and viewing the photos from this site. I have to say that as someone who is not even a novice yet, I would still appreciate any photo given to me by friends and family and would never attempt to make a change. Especially ones with such quality as yours!
This photo is absolutely gorgeous! So much warmth in it!

[Peter_AUS]

Adina,

You have a perfect right to be upset and I think you should make them aware that you are and that your intentions of sharing your photos with them, was just that sharing, not giving them any rights to your photos or to significantly alter them as this detracts from the image you intended in the first place. Certainly if other family memebers saw them, what is their impression of the photos, gee these are badly done, wonder what she was thinking sort of thoughts.

You need to protect your individualilty and make it clear from the start that your images aren't to be altered in anyway without your permission. That is just the respect that family and others deserve from others. Well that is how I think anyway.

Posting images here on the forums can be another matter, especially if someone is trying to share ways to improve composition, lighting, exposure etc and I think most people who post here would agree. At least I hope they do. I know I try my best to help others here and have copied and played with images to show a point or two.

We all learn this way and everyone by doing this shares and improves their own and others knowledge.

Personally I would let the respective members of the family know you are annoyed and don't send them electronic copies anymore, print them off and send them.

Just my thoughts.

[Charles Hess]

I guess I agree with everything that's been said here, and I want to add that I don't blame you for being upset .... BUT...you've got to remember that most people in the world are not photographers, are not creative, and are not sensitive to the fact that an artist really puts their heart into their art. Since they are friends and family...more important than any photos in the long run, I'd probably sya something, then forgive and forget. Then next time, be very clear that you wouldn't appreciate any further "work" on your images. :-) By the way, I love that shot.

[adina]

I've decided to tell them that should they not like a particular picture, feel free to delete it, but please don't "edit" them, as I do work hard on them.

The biggest problem is this is a person who takes offense easily, and I don't want to cause a huge big family uproar.

In the meantime, I am going to be childish about it and not send them any more pictures.

adina

[Sebastian]

I've decided to tell them that should they not like a particular picture, feel free to delete it, but please don't "edit" them, as I do work hard on them.

The biggest problem is this is a person who takes offense easily, and I don't want to cause a huge big family uproar.

In the meantime, I am going to be childish about it and not send them any more pictures.

adina

I second the childish route. Got any toys you can throw? NOT photo related toys though....

[paulnj]

that sounds like a kind, yet direct request...

and cutting her(or him) out of the photo loop isn't childish..... they are YOUR IMAGES to do with as you wish

[gfox]

You put a lot of time and effort into creating your pictures. If you had sent the family member a painting (or even a picture of a painting you had done), I would hope they would not cut it up to get the piece they liked. Film is your canvas. You place the elements where you want them, and what comes out is your masterpiece. I would have been offended as well.

Good luck. It is a tough position to be in with a family member.

greg

I've decided to tell them that should they not like a particular picture, feel free to delete it, but please don't "edit" them, as I do work hard on them.

The biggest problem is this is a person who takes offense easily, and I don't want to cause a huge big family uproar.

In the meantime, I am going to be childish about it and not send them any more pictures.

adina