Police to test power to TAKE our cameras

[SmartWombat]

http://www.bjp-online.com/public/sho...ml?page=856343

So instead of using section 44, to stop and search photographers for the hell of it.
Using section 43 and claiming they "reasonably suspect that photographs are being taken as part of hostile terrorist reconnaissance" they can take your camera away.

Is there anything of terrorist interest in Southwark, Brent, Newham and Tower Hamlets boroughs ?

The average policeman on the street wouldn't know a terrorist if they fell over them.
The specialists can't spot a non-terrorist even after they've shot them.
So what chance do we have ?

[Didache]

Sod that for a game of soldiers. They can arrest me if they want, but there is no chance I would hand over my gear willingly. Even if (to quote Private Eye from a few weeks ago) they had reason to suspect I was a Brazilian electrician.

Mike

[Frog]

That's nuts!
If they want to seize photo equipment they better start with cell phones which are much more discreet for taking photos.
Maybe they should seize google earth too.

[Don Schaeffer]

That's not possible according to any law I know. We don't live in a police state yet. Police who harrass you can be cited themselves.

[Martin Brazil]

We don't live in a police state, are you sure about that ?

From today, anyone taking a photograph of a police officer could be deemed to have committed a criminal offence.

That is because of a new law - Section 76 of the Counter Terrorism Act - which has come into force.

It permits the arrest of anyone found "eliciting, publishing or communicating information" relating to members of the armed forces, intelligence services and police officers, which is "likely to be useful to a person committing or preparing an act of terrorism".

BBC source http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/7888301.stm

[Martin Brazil]

...and just to complete the picture in case you think you are safe because you are not a terrorist here is just a few examples of how the 'anti terror laws' are being used in London.

Cops search 185 using terrorism law........
Despite six people being stopped and searched a day on average, no-one has ever been arrested in Bromley borough for terrorism-related offences........
From March 1 to May 31 this year, Bromley police stopped 2,824 people.
Of these, 294 people - 10.4 per cent - were arrested.

Source http://www.surreycomet.co.uk/search/...terrorism_law/

Croydon Council uses anti-terror laws to spy on its citizens.
Croydon Council has ordered surveillance designed to thwart terrorist bombings to snoop on benefit fraudsters, noisy neighbours, drug dealers, fly-tippers, racists and rogue traders.

source http://www.surreycomet.co.uk/search/..._its_citizens/

Police reveal stop and search figures.....
There were 32,395 stop and searches under section 44 of the Terrorism Act 2000 in London between April and August 2007.

source http://www.surreycomet.co.uk/search/...earch_figures/

Yes I think your right Don, we don't live in a police state !

[Frog]

Have George Bush and Dick Cheney moved to Britain?

[SmartWombat]

The police have apologised for taking photographers' press cards away, and for containing (not detaining) photographers away from the action while they used dog squads to snatch protesters.
http://www.bjp-online.com/public/sho...ml?page=855732

They even took away at least one camera at the G20 protests.
http://www.bjp-online.com/public/sho...ml?page=849669

I pity any freelancer caught up in photographing a demonstration in future.
But there may not be many freelancers left.
http://bit.ly/rv6Rx
The Guardian may not be alone in cutting freelancers' fees and taking all rights not first use rights for that single fee.

But there is good news, the Home Office have assured us that there is nothing to worry about. ..
http://www.bjp-online.com/public/sho...ml?page=855732

.. .apart from our Police Community Support Officers, perhaps.
'I am acutely aware of the potential for terrorism,' he said. 'We have to look out for such things, but common sense seems to have escaped police officers—or, very often, PCSOs—in some of the cases that have been mentioned'
http://www.bjp-online.com/public/sho...ml?page=850305

[TheDigitalMage]

I got the f*** beaten out of me in Chicago, fighting the main pig, in 1968. Everyone saw this coming. When they shot our kids down at Kent State, "we" did nothing.

COWARDS deserve nothing, because cowards ARE nothing. You should have stood up and defended your rights, long ago. Now you have no rights.

And I say IT LOOKS GOOD ON YOU! You're getting exactly what you deserve.

[Didache]

It is hardly true that nobody is defending our rights. I am for one. Older forum members will remember a long thread that resulted from ME being one of those stopped and searched under the Prevention of Terrorism Act. Those who read that thread will know that I wrote to my Member of Parliament who forwarded to me a letter from the Home Office ADMITTING that the Act was used incorrectly in my case and requesting the relevant commander of the Metropolitan Stasi, errr I mean Police, to comment. This was last November. As of now he/she still had not responded (even though they are responsible to Parliament and the Home Office!).

So I wrote to my MP again. The reply from the MP to myself expressed concern that he had not responded and said that he had written to the Commander requesting him to contact me or him ASAP. This is where is gets just a wee bit encouraging: my MP handwrote (ie below the "official" part of the letter: "PS Thanks for not letting this drop and for letting me know". I am somewhat encouraged that, at least, my MP is pursuing it.

Then it gets bizarre. When someone is stopped and searched under the Act, they are told (as I was) that they are entitled to the paperwork on request for up to 12 months. So I wrote to the police requesting the paperwork. I received a reply which included a form for me to fill out and telling me that I had to include £10 for the papers!!! So .... not only am I stopped and searched under an inappropriate act, I have to pay even to get the paperwork for it! Would you believe it??

We will see how the obercommander of the Metropolitan Stasi responds to the MP's letter. I am still not holding my breath.

Cheers
Mike

[Frog]

I don't know any photographers who aren't willing to defend our rights but I don't think a million photographer march on D.C. is going to happen.

[another view]

Two things -

First off, we no longer allow political discussions due to problems in Off Topic. I'm not saying this thread has turned political but it seems to have the potential. Please keep it on topic (i.e. laws and their enforcement, not the politics behind it all).

Second, I see replies from four separate countries. Laws are different, keep that in mind.

[SmartWombat]

I'm sorry to see the rant that dropped in the middle there, I want this to be non-political.

As I said there is good news, the British Government's idea of what should be happening is not in accord with the police implementation and our Members of Parliament are on our side as they should be - we elect them.
Some MPs have been pushed into action by recent events, and I think the recent ministerial comments are encouraging.
But I think it will take a while for the police to change their ways.

[Martin Brazil]

I apologise if I was ranting Paul, I tend to get a bit exited about loss of freedom but this is probably not the place, sorry.
AV, true I am in Brazil but my comments were about the situation is the UK not here, here they shoot first and don't ask questions later.

[Speed]

Well, it's for DAMN SURE I will not be going to the UK!!!

Screw that. I know I'd get singled out for having a funny accent.

I feel for you buddy.

And it looks like the same goes for Brazil.

My favorite hobbies consist of shooting: picutres and bullets.

But it looks like there are damn few places left where you can own guns and take pictures of things...

[Overbeyond]

Well, it's for DAMN SURE I will not be going to the UK!!!

Screw that. I know I'd get singled out for having a funny accent.

I feel for you buddy.

And it looks like the same goes for Brazil.

My favorite hobbies consist of shooting: picutres and bullets.

But it looks like there are damn few places left where you can own guns and take pictures of things...

Ah! Speed but you could bring your guns to UK and defend yourself surely .