My first "showing" (maybe) - advice and help!!??!!

[stew]

I was just recently in a local framing shop to have one of my photos matted and framed (a 16x20 of the Mass Ave bridge shot I posted on the critique some time ago). The manager liked it a lot, and it occurred to me - on a whim - to ask if they display photos from locals like me. The manager liked the idea, contacted the owner of the store, and I now have an appt with the owner next week to show him some other samples and potentially make arrangements.

I am so psyched!!!! But a little off-balance too. My concern stems from the fact that this would be my absolute first time at this. I have no idea what to expect by way of arrangement? Some questions I imagine might be asked are:

1. Would the owner ask for payment from me to show the photos, or a commission if I sell one? Is this a reasonable request from him?

2. Should I copyright my photos before displaying them? (I intend only to show him hard copies, not digital files).

3. What legal documents (if any) can I expect to sign? Or which documents should I ask him to sign?

Any and ALL comments, advice, etc would be very much appreciated!!!

Thanks in advance, Stew

[Sebastian]

I was just recently in a local framing shop to have one of my photos matted and framed (a 16x20 of the Mass Ave bridge shot I posted on the critique some time ago). The manager liked it a lot, and it occurred to me - on a whim - to ask if they display photos from locals like me. The manager liked the idea, contacted the owner of the store, and I now have an appt with the owner next week to show him some other samples and potentially make arrangements.

I am so psyched!!!! But a little off-balance too. My concern stems from the fact that this would be my absolute first time at this. I have no idea what to expect by way of arrangement? Some questions I imagine might be asked are:

1. Would the owner ask for payment from me to show the photos, or a commission if I sell one? Is this a reasonable request from him?

2. Should I copyright my photos before displaying them? (I intend only to show him hard copies, not digital files).

3. What legal documents (if any) can I expect to sign? Or which documents should I ask him to sign?

Any and ALL comments, advice, etc would be very much appreciated!!!

Thanks in advance, Stew

He might request a commission, that would be fair I think. He would be using his space to display and market your prints, he deserves soemthing for it.

A custom frame print can go for a couple hundred, try to get a good majority of that amount. If it was me, I'd be going for a 75/25 split, since it may take some time to sell the print, I wouldn't want him to make too little, but also not too much.

WHatever deal you decide on, make sure you get it in writing. Also request copies of the sales receipts. He should have no objections to that.

Mind you, this is just stuff that I think is the basic, common-sense sort of thing. This is how *I* would approach it from my rather inexperienced ciewpoint. If there are any insider things that you learn from experience, I hope someone can chime i with them.

Good luck with this!!

[Asylum Steve]

Well done, Stew. The best part about this is that you took the initiative by suggesting the idea. For that you were rewarded...

What you describe is a very basic and informal way to have your work seen in a neighborhood business setting. And unless this shop ALREADY exhibits and sells photos (and from what you say it doesn't sound like they do), there probably are no set rules or guidelines in place that you would have to follow.

That pretty much means you can draw up whatever kind of agreement you want, as long as both of you, uh, agree on it...

First you need to decide what exactly you want to get out of the arangement. Is it simply to show your work, have folks see it and associate your name with it? In that case the most hassle-free set up for both of you would be a "no sales" agreement. Any interested viewers are simply referred to you personally. You could have a sign up with your name and phone number (or website URL) and maybe business cards handy, but no money changes hands with anyone in the frame shop.

Or, do you want to actually sell the pieces that you plan to show? In that case, a specific arrangement has to be made. But there are no set rules for this, either. Having you PAY the shop to show would be extremely unusual, but them taking a commission on sold work would not be.

Commercial galleries often take 50% of the selling price of a piece, but they're in the business to make money from this, and often have high overheads that include marketing the artist and their work. Your situation has none of this, so IMO a fairer "cut" would be more like 10% or 20%. Usually artists factor in the commission when pricing their work.

I may be stating the obvious, but the advantage of selling your work right in the shop is the chance of someone spontaneously deciding to make a purchase as opposed to having to go to all the trouble of contacting you and buying something at a later time and place.

Whatever you decide, the most important thing is to get all the details of the arrangment in WRITING. This does not have to be some intense maze of legalease, but perhaps a typed letter stating exactly what pieces will be shown for how long (or leave it open ended) at what prices and how the money is divided in case of a sale.

You should also put in mutual conditions for ending the agreement, say five days or a week's notice, and make it clear you not only retain ownership of the work until sold, but also the copyright to the images. Possession is 9/10ths of the law, and once the shop has your work, any unclear notion of ownership could create a sticky situation for you...

And don't forget to discuss liability should any of your work get stolen or damaged while it is in the shop.

Another thing you should condsider is the cost of matting and framing your work. Obviously, the shop will want their materials used for this, and it wouldn't be considered unreasonable to ask them to cover these costs. After all, showing your work is in effect free advertising for the shop and its products and services. If they balk at this, you could make it only for the length of the time you show the work. When it ends, they could undo the frames and keep all the materials.

I think I've given you enough info to cover most of your basic questions. Hope it helps. Anything else comes to mind, let me know...

I was just recently in a local framing shop to have one of my photos matted and framed (a 16x20 of the Mass Ave bridge shot I posted on the critique some time ago). The manager liked it a lot, and it occurred to me - on a whim - to ask if they display photos from locals like me. The manager liked the idea, contacted the owner of the store, and I now have an appt with the owner next week to show him some other samples and potentially make arrangements.

I am so psyched!!!! But a little off-balance too. My concern stems from the fact that this would be my absolute first time at this. I have no idea what to expect by way of arrangement? Some questions I imagine might be asked are:

1. Would the owner ask for payment from me to show the photos, or a commission if I sell one? Is this a reasonable request from him?

2. Should I copyright my photos before displaying them? (I intend only to show him hard copies, not digital files).

3. What legal documents (if any) can I expect to sign? Or which documents should I ask him to sign?

Any and ALL comments, advice, etc would be very much appreciated!!!

Thanks in advance, Stew

[another view]

I don't really have anything to add, but think that a commission for the store is appropriate if any prints are sold. Like Steve says, if someone sees it, they can buy it right then - keeps it easy for potential customers.

Congrads - I'm interested to see how it works out. Are you showing all color or any b&w? Different sizes and how are you framing them?

[stew]

Thanks guys for your input so far. I need to digest Steve's reply more, then I will probably have some more questions....

Thank you!

[stew]

I don't really have anything to add, but think that a commission for the store is appropriate if any prints are sold. Like Steve says, if someone sees it, they can buy it right then - keeps it easy for potential customers.

Congrads - I'm interested to see how it works out. Are you showing all color or any b&w? Different sizes and how are you framing them?

Thanks! At this point, I think I will show between 6-8 photos because my "portfolio" is very small so far (I just started photography in recent months). I think most (2/3 or so) will be B&W, the rest color. I know for certain some of the ones I want to include, but have some question marks about others. I may ask the generous contributors to this forum for some opinions, before I meet with the owner next week.

As for size, the Mass Ave Bridge will be a 16x20. The large size fits the subject best, after looking at both the 16x20 and 8x10. All of my others are 8x10's so far, but I will be giving thought to which sizes will best represent each photo (either 5x7, 8x10, or 16x20). I will have to make my decisions soon. I plan to spend some time wandering around galleries this weekend, to get ideas for sizing, and framing/mounting, etc. Also pricing.

It's exciting!

I still don't have the confirmation from the owner of course, but I am hopeful.

[Spike]

How exciting! Good for you to take the initiative. It's a great way for you to showcase your art, for the shop to showcase their services, and maybe for both of you to make some $$.

Good luck,

Spike

[stew]

How exciting! Good for you to take the initiative. It's a great way for you to showcase your art, for the shop to showcase their services, and maybe for both of you to make some $$.

Good luck,

Spike

Thanks! Whether this pans out or not, I will be learning an incredible amount about marketing myself and pics, about what to expect, and for the first time I will have given thought to sizing and framing, etc. So I'm pretty psyched about this oppt almost no matter how it turns out. But of course to get my photos in the store would be fantastic.

[darkrainfall]

Congratulations on having your work shown! When you sit down to discuss things with the store owner maybe you should point out how this would also be a help to him, because if you are going to have the prints matted and framed at that shop, than it would show off the work of the frame/matte place.... and maybe he will be gracious enough to make a deal with you concerning the pricing on having your prints matted and framed and such.
I had some prints displayed in a coffee shop and the owner and I agreed to a commision when the prints sold. As I remember it was 20% of the selling price....
*smile*

[another view]

Thanks! At this point, I think I will show between 6-8 photos because my "portfolio" is very small so far (I just started photography in recent months). I think most (2/3 or so) will be B&W, the rest color. I know for certain some of the ones I want to include, but have some question marks about others. I may ask the generous contributors to this forum for some opinions, before I meet with the owner next week.

I'd go for strong shots that all maybe work together in some way, some sort of theme. I wouldn't put anything that was a question mark - just strong shots that show your best work. Feel free to post them here or in critique, sometimes another set of eyes helps. Gerry Widen posted something recently about a show he has coming up.

Matting, mounting and framing can get expensive, especially when you're talking about several prints. I don't think that it would be a problem to show prints that you've framed if you choose to do so. Photo John turned me on to this place for frames: http://www.americanframe.com/ Buy the glass locally at a glass shop and have the shop cut the mat boards. Or maybe the shop could give you a discount for framing that many prints - my wife who is an interior designer gets a discount at a store in the area because of the amount of business she does with them. Like you said, it's a great experience - best of luck.

[stew]

All,

I appreciate all the responses I've received so far on this post! It has been stated many times on this site before by others, but it bears repeating that this is a fantastic, positive forum to be a part of.

My initial idea is to propose 6-8 photos for display. I think that should fill up one of his walls (15-20' in length, standard height). I know of 3 that I will propose for sure (all of which have been posted on the Critique forum at one time or another, the Mass Avenue Bridge and the Mens Suit in Window, and one from the recent Bicycle Series). I have a number of others that I'm considering for the other slots. I have decided on a city theme, which is a natural one for me at this point. I have attached some of the ones that have made my short list. I would appreciate any and all feedback on if them!

Thanks in advance,
Stew

[stew]

Thanks for your feedback...

[Jeff82]

I wouldn't agree to pay to have it shown; but I would agree to paying a commission, if it sold. If you were showing in an art gallery, the typical agreement is that the artist supplies a matted or framed print, and the gallery splits the sales proceeds 50/50. Sales prices really vary. High end prints usually sell for around $600. More typical prices are around $300.

--Jeff