Don't Know What to Say

[Peter_AUS]

You are right Steve, we have/are bringing them up to believe the way we have ourselves developed which I think is fairly tolerable of most things/people/ideals. They watch what happend in the Tsunami, asking questions, along the lines of why did God let this happen. We explained that beliefs aren't necessarily totally according to the Bible etc and things happen because nature is like that. Hopeing from this they will realise, that not everything is purely Black and White, but has fine areas of Grey.

Hence their own attitudes towards sexuality and what they know, even though they are young.

You know me fairly well now and know somethings that have happened in the last week or so and realise that I could also have commented in a very negative way, like others have here, which to me is intolerably short sighted of themselves.

Wouldn't life be wonderful if we all had what we wanted, never had to worry about illness, death, finances, and lived such peacefull lives. How great would that be.

Hope you are well and safe.

[Peter_AUS]

shrackman,

I really don't care if the thread remains open or what. I find your views to be very narrow minded and don't have a clear insite into the intricacies of the emotional development of humans, be they, Hetrosexual, Bi-Sexual, Homo-sexual, A-Sexual, no sexual, lack of sexual, have no idea sexual. Everyone is totally different, how they lead there/our lives, should be totally left up to the individuals involved. The only time any intervention should be there is when and if it is necessary.

If you are going to coment on something I have written have the decency to atleast address it to me, not make a general comment. I'm pretty thick skined, not much can cut through me. I can take it.

I don't mind, discussions on anything in these forums, it is a great way of learning about others, cultures, beliefs etc that then makes life so much better for it. Better than just blowing someone up who is a total stranger like some cultures do.

We have a great saying here in Australia. "She'll be right mate."

[Dzerzhinski46]

The only time any intervention should be there is when and if it is necessary.

Dear Peter and Others,

(A small disclaimer, please take this discourse in a spirit of openness. I respect everyone's opinions here, even if I do not agree.)

I find that discussions about gay marriage, or just homosexuals in general, fall into a very interesting mode when started. Whether you are for or against what homosexuality is, most try to persuade people by using emotional arguments. "But they love each other..." is a common one. People who are agianst homosexual marriage generally take the view of, "That is not what marriage is...", and usually get called narrow minded, bigots, and other such names. Maybe not here though. I would hope not.

I would raise a question though. When a situation is out of hand, and someone is being harmed by bad behavior, what must one do? When child services finds out a father is beating his child, they remove the child from the home because that will prevent harm from coming to the child. Or when a pet is being cruelly treated, the ASPCA comes in and fines the owner and removes the dog to a safer place. It is for the pet's good that this happens. Whenever there is injustice and wrongdoing, someone must step forward to remedy the situation. If two people are living in a lifestyle that is harmful to them, then steps must be taken to remedy the situation. If someone is doing drugs, the person must be brought to account for this and reprehended. So it is, when two people are living a lifestyle that could ruin their health, steps must be taken to remedy the situation. Gay marriage would justify two people putting themselves in a dangerous position, with all the attending medical, and psycological harm it does. No one in their right mind would allow anyone to intentionally harm themselves. So it is with Christians. We love the sinner, but hate the sin. We want homosexuals to understand that they are harming themselves, and we do not hate them. Love the sinner, but hate the sin. Christians are not intolerant. We care about the welfare of all people. It is out of immense love that we do these things.

"But a good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit"

Dzerzhinski

[Trevor Ash]

Interesting thread. I've been watching it grow recently to see what happens

There's one thing I do know very well about these types of subjects....these types meaning a persons "beliefs". They're interesting discussions and worthy of one's attention and participance but they're not worth expending energy trying to convince someone to change their beliefs. It's ain't gonna happen.

Cya!

[Peter_AUS]

"But a good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit"

Dzerzhinski

Biggest load of Crap I have read on here in the past 2 years.

And your not try to shove your views down other peoples throats.

Read my post and you will see I have said, intervene where it is absolutely necessary, I haven't said, leave the children to suffer.

What a silly Wally statement that was you made.

How about trying to see why the Father might be hitting the child, ever though it might actually be because the child is totally off the planet, uncontrollable, can't be handled, the parents are at their wits end. There are many reasons why parents get to the point of hitting a child, but it usually does take a lot to get to that point. Yes there are those parents that are habitually abuse.

I know what it is like to grow up in Poverty, I know what it is like to be Abused, I know what it is like to be struck by Adults in superior positons and not be able to do or complain about it as a child. I have been there and done that in my 51 years on this planet.

Hence why I am trying to bring up my children in a totally different atmosphere than my time as a child.

Biggest problem with society today, we give our children everything, make thier playgrounds for them, instead of letting them learn these things the way we did.

Our current society is a consequence of our own doing and we need to fix it.

You might have a Bad Tree, but it doesn't mean all the Fruit is Tainted.

You have a twisted view on life.

As Trevor Ash said.

Cya!

[walterick]

Ray, first off I apologize for my presumption about your faith. You were right in correcting me in the respectful way you did. I responded rather emotionally to your comments and woudn't normally "bite" so hard. My assumption did not immediately call for a respectful response.

That having ben said, I am going to shoot you a PM (and then attach to it an email I'll never respond to ) about this statement:
"Now, whether anyone likes to hear it or not, homosexuality is a deadly lifestyle."

I've never heard this argument before, I am intrigued - yes befuddled, to say the least

Dz:
"Gay marriage would justify two people putting themselves in a dangerous position, with all the attending medical, and psycological harm it does."

Huh? This sounds like what Ray said. I've studied health and psychology for most of my adult life. I've never heard that kissing a man could be bad for my health! Geez, for Paul and mine's sake I hope NOT! ;)

Paul, I'll take a raincheck baby.

LOL Rick

[schrackman]

Rick, got your pm. Look for one comin' back at ya.

Ray

[walterick]

Yeah. And me and Paul might even make it.

[Dzerzhinski46]

Dear Peter,

If I have rubbed you the wrong way, I am sorry for doing it. When it comes to beliefs, people generally hold strong, violent opinions. We just happen to see an issue from two different angles. And please do not take my statement out of context. As I shall not try to take your's out of context. I hope I never implied that you were promoting violence. Let us agree to disagree.

Rick, gay marriage has several effects. The first effect is the children of a homosexual union:
1."Research clearly demonstrates that family structure matters for children, and the family structure that helps the most is a family headed by two biological parents in a low-conflict marriage." .
2.Entices children to experiment with homosexuality. This puts more kids at risk for HIV, hepatitis A, B and C, "gay bowel syndrome," human papillomavirus (HPV), syphilis, gonorrhea and other sexually transmitted diseases. Homosexual households are also more prone to domestic violence. For example: "The incidence of domestic violence among gay men is nearly double that in the heterosexual population," according to D. Island and P. Letellier in Men Who Beat the Men Who Love Them (New York: Haworth Press, 1991). A study in the Journal of Social Service Research reported that "slightly more than half of the [lesbians surveyed] reported that they had been abused by a female lover/partner." (G. Lie and S. Gentlewarrior, "Intimate Violence in Lesbian Relationships: Discussion of Survey Findings and Practice Implications," No. 15, 1991.)
3.Marriage will be transformed into a variety of relationship contracts, linking two, three, or more individuals (however weakly and temporarily) in every conceivable combination of male and female.

Just some of the compelling reasons why. I urge you to do your own research, and come to your own opinion.

Dzerzhinski

[schrackman]

Hi Peter,

shrackman, I find your views to be very narrow minded

Yes, many others do also. But conversely, I find other's views to be a bit too open-minded. I think that makes for some lively conversation, don't you?

and don't have a clear insite into the intricacies of the emotional development of humans, be they, Hetrosexual, Bi-Sexual, Homo-sexual, A-Sexual, no sexual, lack of sexual, have no idea sexual.

It's strange that you say this, since my conversations with the homosexual man I've been visiting in the hospital tells me quite the opposite, i.e. that I am more than capable of understanding and connecting with such a person on an emotional level, that I am more than capable of having compassion for his weakness while at the same maintaining my belief that his lifestyle is wrong and harmful and needs amendment, that I am more than capable of comprehending why he had been living the way that he had. In fact, here is a fellow who we were told (by his brother) never showed any emotion to anyone--ever. And yet, after my first visit with him he began to break down in tears because he knew in his heart and had acknowledged that the things I have been telling him was the truth. No one else has been able to reach him--emotionally or spiritually--as I have been doing this past week. So perhaps you need to be a little more careful, my friend down under, before you make a snap judgment about whether or not someone has insight into people's lives.

Everyone is totally different, how they lead there/our lives, should be totally left up to the individuals involved. The only time any intervention should be there is when and if it is necessary.

The time for intervention for this man is gone, physically speaking. He's got AIDS now, and sooner or later will die because of it. Just think if someone had been able to reach him before he got together with the fella who infected him? Ah, but we can't have that now, can we? That would be meddlng. Or would it? Should it not rather be construed as an act of genuine love for one's fellow man, to intervene in a person's lifestyle which has a high potential for death as the outcome? I'll let you judge for yourself.

If you are going to coment on something I have written have the decency to atleast address it to me, not make a general comment. I'm pretty thick skined, not much can cut through me. I can take it.

Given the fact that a few other people mentioned the same thing, and because I have seen this type of thing before, I did not feel the need to address all of you directly (in fact, that would have looked really redundant). So if I offended you by this, then please accept my apologies, as there was no malice intended toward any of you.

I don't mind discussions on anything in these forums, it is a great way of learning about others, cultures, beliefs etc that then makes life so much better for it. Better than just blowing someone up who is a total stranger like some cultures do.

Hey, we agree!

Ray

[natatbeach]

there truly are no exact words to describe...um...thanks for sharing ...um...ya .thanks ;)

[mdmc]

I'm not sure what to say about this. But I thought some of you might find it interesting and/or amusing.

http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/com...5E2862,00.html

Should'a used a view camera, or at least a pc lens.
Bet she rides an "INVISIBLE HARLEY"!
Mark.

[paulnj]

"Paul, I'll take a raincheck baby"

Sounds like a plan SWEET CHEEKS

[paulnj]

HEY!!! Paul is not that kind of GIRL ;) Be a gentleman and keep our affairs amoung us .

Rich , you are one funny guy

[walterick]

Oops, my bad baby. Please forgive me.

There's a bouquet in the mail with your name on it big boy.

... Okay, think they've had enough yet?

p.s. I'm a size 2