Photography Studio and Lighting Forum

Hosted by fabulous Florida-based professional fashion photographer, Asylum Steve, this forum is for discussing studio photography and anything related to lighting.
Results 1 to 9 of 9
  1. #1
    We're Havin Fun Now JBPhoto's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    East Lyme, CT USA
    Posts
    143

    Team Photo Question

    I posted this in the Sports Forum and thought it appropriate to ask here as well.

    I'm shooting a team photo for a middle school basketball team next week. It'll be in a fairly dark gym and I'm wondering about lighting. Not having done this before and with no opportunity to practice, I'm debating whether to bounce the stobes off the white wall or to get a 36" or 48" unbrella and use one strobe set up behind me. I'd rather not have this look like an experiment.

    Anyone have any experience with this / suggestions to offer?
    Canon EOS 40D w/Grip
    Canon EOS 20D w/Grip
    Canon 70-200mm f/2.8L IS USM
    Canon 24-70mm f/2.8L USM
    Canon 85mm f/1.8 USM
    Canon EF 1.4x II Teleconverter
    Canon Speedlite 580EX, CP-E3 Battery Pack
    AlienBees B800's, Pocket Wizard Plus II's, Sekonic L-358
    Epson Pro 3800

  2. #2
    don't tase me, bro! Asylum Steve's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Middle Florida
    Posts
    3,667

    No experience with a team photo, but...

    Quote Originally Posted by JBPhoto
    Anyone have any experience with this / suggestions to offer?
    ...I can tell you bouncing off a wall probably will not work too well.

    Luckily, basketball teams are not huge (number of subjects-wise), and as your goal is not beautifully stylish light, but rather decent even light so you can see each player, I think you can get away with the two umbrellas near camera position.

    I would set them up equal distance from the camera, pretty high (aiming down slightly on the players), and aiming only slightly in towards the middle.

    With the bees set on full power, bouncing into the umbrellas with the black (and reflective) covers should give you enough spread and a reasonable f/stop. If not, turn the bees around and shoot through the white umbrellas.

    BTW, obviously, if you have the chance to test this setup on your own (probably could get away with two test subjects on each end of the light coverage), it would be a good idea...
    "Riding along on a carousel...tryin' to catch up to you..."

    -Steve
    Studio & Lighting - Photography As Art Forum Moderator

    Running the Photo Asylum, Asylum Steve's blogged brain pipes...
    www.stevenpaulhlavac.com
    www.photoasylum.com

  3. #3
    Not-so-recent Nikon Convert livin4lax09's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    NH
    Posts
    2,776

    Re: Team Photo Question

    remember that the softness of the light is defined by the size of the light source relative to the object. so if you're looking for soft light, putting the umbrellas behind you is not the way to do it. the closer you get, the softer the light will be.

    But AS, If mounting strobes on 13' light stands pointed towards a white ceiling, light stands camera right and left, slightly forward, and same distance from camera, could actually work well. you think not?

  4. #4
    don't tase me, bro! Asylum Steve's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Middle Florida
    Posts
    3,667

    Re: Team Photo Question

    Quote Originally Posted by livin4lax09
    remember that the softness of the light is defined by the size of the light source relative to the object. so if you're looking for soft light, putting the umbrellas behind you is not the way to do it. the closer you get, the softer the light will be...
    True enough. My idea is to place the lights as close as possible (to the group) without being in the frame maybe 3 to 4 feet out on either side of the camera position. Keep in mind with this kind of shot soft light is usually not the goal. As long as the light is fairly even (no harsh shadows), he should be ok...

    Quote Originally Posted by livin4lax09
    But AS, If mounting strobes on 13' light stands pointed towards a white ceiling, light stands camera right and left, slightly forward, and same distance from camera, could actually work well. you think not?
    The problem with that is the light will (most likely) be too top-heavy. There will be shadows under the eyes, noses and chins of the subjects. It will look like the light is coming from above, which is unnatural.

    Keeping the lights not too far above subject eye level, and aimed at the subjects (either bounced or shoot-through) will look more natural, or at least more normal...
    "Riding along on a carousel...tryin' to catch up to you..."

    -Steve
    Studio & Lighting - Photography As Art Forum Moderator

    Running the Photo Asylum, Asylum Steve's blogged brain pipes...
    www.stevenpaulhlavac.com
    www.photoasylum.com

  5. #5
    MJS
    MJS is offline
    Digital Video Moderator
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Miami, FL
    Posts
    1,390

    Re: Team Photo Question

    We have to do this for our teams all the time. Go with the Set up that Steve mentioned, equidistant left and right. How many rows of player will you have? For two rows, f/11 will do if they are close. If you have to go to three rows, you'll need about f/16 so you won't have the Mom of the kid on the end of the front row after you because her darlings elbow is out of focus. Sometimes team parents are worse than mother-in-laws from a wedding shoot. Make sure you meter the lights one at a time. I usually use a pair of Alien Bee 1600's with the white sid of the umbrella for bounce.
    Michael
    Nikon Samurai #8
    Avid Editor
    Sony Shogun

  6. #6
    We're Havin Fun Now JBPhoto's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    East Lyme, CT USA
    Posts
    143

    Re: Team Photo Question

    Well, they didn't come out as well as I had hoped, due mostly to umbrella trauma (I think). I didn't have any and couldn't get them from B&H in time for the shoot, so I was relegated to the local Ritz Camera (I know). They had a 45" and a 30", that's it, so I bought them both. Thinking the 30" wouldn't help much, I shot the girls photo with the 45" and my 580EX on a stand with the bounce card. I needed more light for a higher aperture. I then tried the 30" and the 45" for the boys and got f/9, but still, not a great shot. I had them set up per Steve's suggestion. I ordered two 60" umbrellas from B&H last night, so I'll be better prepared next time, and will hopefully get better results.

    #1 ISO 100, 1/125 @ f/6.3
    #2 ISO 100, 1/125 @ f/5.6
    #3 ISO 100, 1/125 @ f/9
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Team Photo Question-img_9664_sm.jpg   Team Photo Question-img_9682_sm.jpg   Team Photo Question-img_9713_sm.jpg  
    Canon EOS 40D w/Grip
    Canon EOS 20D w/Grip
    Canon 70-200mm f/2.8L IS USM
    Canon 24-70mm f/2.8L USM
    Canon 85mm f/1.8 USM
    Canon EF 1.4x II Teleconverter
    Canon Speedlite 580EX, CP-E3 Battery Pack
    AlienBees B800's, Pocket Wizard Plus II's, Sekonic L-358
    Epson Pro 3800

  7. #7
    don't tase me, bro! Asylum Steve's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Middle Florida
    Posts
    3,667

    Re: Team Photo Question

    Quote Originally Posted by JBPhoto
    Well, they didn't come out as well as I had hoped, due mostly to umbrella trauma (I think)...
    Well, I'm a little nervous about someone following my lighting advice regarding a subject I've never shot myself (have shot large groups, just not sports teams), but it looks like you did a pretty good job.

    Again, with no personal experience with these types of images, why don't you explain why you were disappointed. I think they look fine. Ok, second one is not balanced enough. I think we both know you do need the two umbrellas together.

    But the first and third look (to me) very much like your typical sports team picture. Is it the dark bg? If so, the only way (other than more lights) to improve that would more powerful and wider light sources. Yep, the 60" umbrellas would help...

    If you're talking about sharpness and DOF, well, that's real hard to evaluate on a pc monitor...
    "Riding along on a carousel...tryin' to catch up to you..."

    -Steve
    Studio & Lighting - Photography As Art Forum Moderator

    Running the Photo Asylum, Asylum Steve's blogged brain pipes...
    www.stevenpaulhlavac.com
    www.photoasylum.com

  8. #8
    We're Havin Fun Now JBPhoto's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    East Lyme, CT USA
    Posts
    143

    Re: Team Photo Question

    The kids in the center are fairly sharp while those on the outside are somewhat out of focus. I higher aperture would have helped with that and the proper lighting would have made that possible. The originals were darker, I adjusted levels in CS2 and WB in Lightroom to help these along. To me, a great photo is one that you open in CS2 and say WOW. You look at the histogram, smile, and just run your copyright action and save.
    Canon EOS 40D w/Grip
    Canon EOS 20D w/Grip
    Canon 70-200mm f/2.8L IS USM
    Canon 24-70mm f/2.8L USM
    Canon 85mm f/1.8 USM
    Canon EF 1.4x II Teleconverter
    Canon Speedlite 580EX, CP-E3 Battery Pack
    AlienBees B800's, Pocket Wizard Plus II's, Sekonic L-358
    Epson Pro 3800

  9. #9
    don't tase me, bro! Asylum Steve's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Middle Florida
    Posts
    3,667

    Understood...

    Nothing "more light" wouldn't fix, eh?...

    Looking at your camera settings, if it were me, I would have bumped the ISO up to 200, and maybe even 400 to get that extra stop or two and it's increased DOF. Sure, I usually go for the low ISO too, but I have shot higher with no apparent noise...

    Quote Originally Posted by JBPhoto
    To me, a great photo is one that you open in CS2 and say WOW. You look at the histogram, smile, and just run your copyright action and save.
    You may be right. Problem is, I've never had a shot like that...
    "Riding along on a carousel...tryin' to catch up to you..."

    -Steve
    Studio & Lighting - Photography As Art Forum Moderator

    Running the Photo Asylum, Asylum Steve's blogged brain pipes...
    www.stevenpaulhlavac.com
    www.photoasylum.com

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •