Team Photo Question

I posted this in the Sports Forum and thought it appropriate to ask here as well.

I'm shooting a team photo for a middle school basketball team next week. It'll be in a fairly dark gym and I'm wondering about lighting. Not having done this before and with no opportunity to practice, I'm debating whether to bounce the stobes off the white wall or to get a 36" or 48" unbrella and use one strobe set up behind me. I'd rather not have this look like an experiment.

Anyone have any experience with this / suggestions to offer?

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Originally Posted by JBPhoto

Anyone have any experience with this / suggestions to offer?

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...I can tell you bouncing off a wall probably will not work too well.

Luckily, basketball teams are not huge (number of subjects-wise), and as your goal is not beautifully stylish light, but rather decent even light so you can see each player, I think you can get away with the two umbrellas near camera position.

I would set them up equal distance from the camera, pretty high (aiming down slightly on the players), and aiming only slightly in towards the middle.

With the bees set on full power, bouncing into the umbrellas with the black (and reflective) covers should give you enough spread and a reasonable f/stop. If not, turn the bees around and shoot through the white umbrellas.

BTW, obviously, if you have the chance to test this setup on your own (probably could get away with two test subjects on each end of the light coverage), it would be a good idea...

remember that the softness of the light is defined by the size of the light source relative to the object. so if you're looking for soft light, putting the umbrellas behind you is not the way to do it. the closer you get, the softer the light will be.

But AS, If mounting strobes on 13' light stands pointed towards a white ceiling, light stands camera right and left, slightly forward, and same distance from camera, could actually work well. you think not?

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Originally Posted by livin4lax09

remember that the softness of the light is defined by the size of the light source relative to the object. so if you're looking for soft light, putting the umbrellas behind you is not the way to do it. the closer you get, the softer the light will be...

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True enough. My idea is to place the lights as close as possible (to the group) without being in the frame maybe 3 to 4 feet out on either side of the camera position. Keep in mind with this kind of shot soft light is usually not the goal. As long as the light is fairly even (no harsh shadows), he should be ok...

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Originally Posted by livin4lax09

But AS, If mounting strobes on 13' light stands pointed towards a white ceiling, light stands camera right and left, slightly forward, and same distance from camera, could actually work well. you think not?

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The problem with that is the light will (most likely) be too top-heavy. There will be shadows under the eyes, noses and chins of the subjects. It will look like the light is coming from above, which is unnatural.

Keeping the lights not too far above subject eye level, and aimed at the subjects (either bounced or shoot-through) will look more natural, or at least more normal...

We have to do this for our teams all the time. Go with the Set up that Steve mentioned, equidistant left and right. How many rows of player will you have? For two rows, f/11 will do if they are close. If you have to go to three rows, you'll need about f/16 so you won't have the Mom of the kid on the end of the front row after you because her darlings elbow is out of focus. Sometimes team parents are worse than mother-in-laws from a wedding shoot. Make sure you meter the lights one at a time. I usually use a pair of Alien Bee 1600's with the white sid of the umbrella for bounce.

Well, they didn't come out as well as I had hoped, due mostly to umbrella trauma (I think). I didn't have any and couldn't get them from B&H in time for the shoot, so I was relegated to the local Ritz Camera (I know). They had a 45" and a 30", that's it, so I bought them both. Thinking the 30" wouldn't help much, I shot the girls photo with the 45" and my 580EX on a stand with the bounce card. I needed more light for a higher aperture. I then tried the 30" and the 45" for the boys and got f/9, but still, not a great shot. I had them set up per Steve's suggestion. I ordered two 60" umbrellas from B&H last night, so I'll be better prepared next time, and will hopefully get better results.

#1 ISO 100, 1/125 @ f/6.3
#2 ISO 100, 1/125 @ f/5.6
#3 ISO 100, 1/125 @ f/9

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Originally Posted by JBPhoto

Well, they didn't come out as well as I had hoped, due mostly to umbrella trauma (I think)...

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Well, I'm a little nervous about someone following my lighting advice regarding a subject I've never shot myself (have shot large groups, just not sports teams), but it looks like you did a pretty good job.

Again, with no personal experience with these types of images, why don't you explain why you were disappointed. I think they look fine. Ok, second one is not balanced enough. I think we both know you do need the two umbrellas together.

But the first and third look (to me) very much like your typical sports team picture. Is it the dark bg? If so, the only way (other than more lights) to improve that would more powerful and wider light sources. Yep, the 60" umbrellas would help...

If you're talking about sharpness and DOF, well, that's real hard to evaluate on a pc monitor...

The kids in the center are fairly sharp while those on the outside are somewhat out of focus. I higher aperture would have helped with that and the proper lighting would have made that possible. The originals were darker, I adjusted levels in CS2 and WB in Lightroom to help these along. To me, a great photo is one that you open in CS2 and say WOW. You look at the histogram, smile, and just run your copyright action and save.

Nothing "more light" wouldn't fix, eh?... :cool:

Looking at your camera settings, if it were me, I would have bumped the ISO up to 200, and maybe even 400 to get that extra stop or two and it's increased DOF. Sure, I usually go for the low ISO too, but I have shot higher with no apparent noise...

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Originally Posted by JBPhoto

To me, a great photo is one that you open in CS2 and say WOW. You look at the histogram, smile, and just run your copyright action and save.

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You may be right. Problem is, I've never had a shot like that... :D