Swim and Dive

[OBie]

OK everyone - HS swim and dive season is here. Last year you all said you'd help me figure it out.

Mostly I know I need a flash. Will most likely use my Sigma 80-200 1.8, but I need a monopod for that, so I may use the Quantaray 70-300 5.6 - no mono needed. I have a Nikon D50. Any recommendations?

[JSPhoto]

Welcome back Obie!

Start with f2,8 lens yuor 80-200 covers that
2: make sure your allowed to use flash! Here it's a big no no as it messes with the timing equipment.
3: no monopod! it's normally too crowded and the 80-200 isn't that heavy. Good technique holding the camera will do more than any monopod and monopods limit your movement as well.
4: practice practice and more practice
5: post your examples (good and bad) so we can help you out

JS

[OBie]

Oops - I meant to say that my Sigma was a 2.8, not 1.8.

Thanks for the help JS. OK, I'll leave the monopod home and stay away from caffeine that day. I do prefer to stay away from flash - rather be inconspicuous anyway - I'll check if it's allowed. I'm not sure if the divers mind a flash - plan on asking the coaches next time I see them.

Will post examples when I have some.

[jeffp]

i wouldn't use a flash because a lot of (if not all) starters are audible + have a strobe, so you might cause false starts. even if a particular meet doesnt use a strobe starter, many if not all of the swimmers will be used to it anyway. swim meets generally dont allow flash photography for this reason.

[OBie]

I definitely wouldn't use a flash anywhere close to the start - got in trouble for that a few years ago at a summer league meet! But maybe during some of the longer races?

I'd rather not, though. I really do like remaining invisible. I prefer true candids, not hamming.

Thanks jeffp.

[jeffp]

flash might be good if you did it during some of the longer races, but it might annoy the swimmer if you do it when they are breathing and you might mess up their vision and cause them to crash into the wall i dont really know if that would happen though since no one ever shot a flash into me when i was swimming.

you have a D50, which from what i hear has really good looking noise characteristics, so just bump up your iso a bit. i havent shot indoor swimming yet, just outdoor summer league. i switched to my 50 f/1.4 from the 18-200vr when it started getting dark and did what i could.

[JSPhoto]

Oops - I meant to say that my Sigma was a 2.8, not 1.8.

Thanks for the help JS. OK, I'll leave the monopod home and stay away from caffeine that day.

No problem Obie If I don't have enough caffine before a job I'm shakey, never got that way with too much though I live on Coke (the liquid drink type :thumbsup: )

JS

[dhyravy]

Cafeine is my life!! Since I also use a D50 I would second what jeffp said and up the ISO to get a good exposure. With swimming you won't need quite as high a shutter speed as some other sports require but I like to stay at 1/320 or better. Remember, manual is your friend for consistent exposure. The noise on the D50 is very good even at ISO 1600 if you get a proper exposure so don't be hesitant to use what you need for the lighting conditions. I would also recommend a custom WB if you are shooting ambient. Good luck and have fun!

[JSPhoto]

For diving I have had my best results getting low and shooting up as the lights are up high and the ceiling is usually white or off white. If it's off white, set the WB to make it look white and you should have enough light without a flash.

JS

[OBie]

Interesting re: the D50 looking good at high ISO. I hate what I get with 1600. But maybe it's just me. I've always favored lower ISO's (used to hate 400 film when it first came out and almost never used it). I've had good luck with Noise Ninja, but that's one extra step I try to avoid. But I'll give the higher ISOs another go. I do try and shoot manual - especially in that situation when the lighting and conditions aren't changing. It's getting to where I hate shooting outdoors because of the darn clouds and heavy shade and constant adjusting of settings!

JS - these divers are only going off a 1 meter board - to get that low I'd have to be underwater Thanks for the setting idea (setting the WB).

[JSPhoto]

Interesting re: the D50 looking good at high ISO. I hate what I get with 1600. But maybe it's just me. I've always
JS - these divers are only going off a 1 meter board - to get that low I'd have to be underwater Thanks for the setting idea (setting the WB).

You can still get lower by kneeling down instead of standing Although I won't be doing that this year, my left knee is shot! The last couple times I couldn't get up without help


JS

[OBie]

OK - I have the results of the first swim meet. Took around 115 shots, and found more than a few keepers. I'll post some after I get my next question answered.

I shoot in RAW. I use a MAC to edit photos. Great news is that the MAC sees the RAW files with no middleman. I shot the meet at 1600 ISO. So I need to use Noise Ninja. But NN can't see the RAW files. So I'll have to convert them to jpg. No problem except that I shoot in RAW for the flexibility in editing. Once I make them jpg, I'll lose that. NN recommends that you do noise reduction first, before any edits.

Sigh. What say you?

[dhyravy]

Obie,
Like JS, I shoot a good bit for the papers here and pretty much only use jpeg. Due to the time constraints I usually have and the fact that the papers only want jpeg. Although you can't fix exposure like you can with RAW you can still do quite a bit in PP. I have found that jpeg forces me to be accurate with exposure and nail it when it's shot. I generally do very little in PP other than an Auto Levels and maybe a slight Curves adjustment. Don't be timid about 1600 with the D50. Unless you "pixel peep" the shots at unreasonably high magnification they'll look great even at 8x10 size. One tip, NN has custom noise profiles for the D50 on their site and they work really well. Also, upload some of those shots so we can see them!!

[JSPhoto]

As Daniel said we shoot JPG due to time constraints with dealines, however as he also points out if your exposure is correct to begin with RAW doesn't matter. You can be two stops off and still make a shot very usable with JPG although it makes a bit more work in PP. I have made 11x16 prints with no problems from med res JPG's, even with cropping :thumbsup: In fact there are a few schools that have some of my 11x16's hanging in them that started as med res JPG's. The important thing though is to get the exposure right to start with. The only time I use RAW anymore is if I know ahead of time that a shot will be needed for certain projects such as magazine or very large prints. One of those large prints was used on one of the IRL team haulers. People give RAW too much credit, and too me they could do just as well if they set up their gear properly to start with and saved all the PP work afterwards.... just my .02 on that though,

JS

[OBie]

Thanks JS and Daniel. I was very pleased with the quality at 1600 - and I have already downloaded the profiles from NN.

Key phrase - 'get the exposure right to start'. LOL - I am getting better at adjusting on the fly (checking the histogram), so it proves that practice makes a difference.

I experimented yesterday with changing a file to jpg, doing NN, and then editing, and it was fine. We're not talking photos to sell or frame, just for the swim team website and my own satisfaction of a job well done.

I'll post some later today.

[JSPhoto]

At 1600 ISO you will see the noise more the darker the background is, so a white background it won't show as much, although off white sometimes shows a bit.

JS

[OBie]

At 1600 ISO you will see the noise more the darker the background is, so a white background it won't show as much, although off white sometimes shows a bit.

JS

Ahh - that explains my results from shooting in a gym at an indoor color guard competition.

Here are some of the better (I think) ones from the meet. Remember I'm trying to learn to use the heavy 80-200 sigma handheld, so they aren't as tack sharp as I'd like. And I have a problem with sometimes turning the pool water an unnatural blue (see last photo).

The first three were taken with the sigma. Last two were taken with the 50mm 1.8. I changed them from RAW to jpg, ran them through Noise Ninja, and then PP in Adobe Elements.

Any ideas/thoughts are appreciated.

First two were the finish of a close race (we won )

[JSPhoto]

Those look pretty good Obie. lol, the top one, it almost looks like the girl behind the coach is pushing her in

JS

[beverly_k]

nice shots...

[OBie]

Hmm. I had a reply the other day and now it's gone. Twilight zone.

Thanks for the comments JS and beverly.

Any post processing issues that anyone notices is welcome.

[JSPhoto]

hmmmm, I wonder if we had a crash and lost some posts? I remember your reply ,,, very odd!

JS

[OBie]

Good - I'm not going crazy!