Softball Shooting Advice

[jazzone]

My 10 year old granddaughter plays softball and I've shot several of her games. One of my favorite pitcher shooting locations is behind the home plate backstop through chain link fence. The problem is that my success rate in getting sharp results is quite low. Here's my equipment and camera settings:

Canon 40D with 70-200mm f/2.8L lens
Aperture priority at f/2.8-4 and 200mm
1/500 or faster shutter speed
AI Servo AF (continuous focus) using center focus point

I'm using AI Servo rather than normal One-Shot AF because of the pitcher's movement during the pitch. However, a high percentage of my shots are still blurred and I think it's due to missed focus rather than camera shake or motion blur. Does anyone have experience in this type of shot and if so, what would you recommend?

Here's an example of one of my more successful shots.

[OldClicker]

You trying to focus on the ball or the pitcher? - TF

[jazzone]

You trying to focus on the ball or the pitcher? - TF

I'm trying to focus on the pitcher, hopefully nailing the focus on the face. I think there's enough DOF at my shooting conditions (f/2.8, 200mm, 60') to keep the face in focus with the AF focus point aimed at the chest.

[OldClicker]

Since the face should always end up in nearly the same plane, try manual focus. - TF

[jazzone]

Since the face should always end up in nearly the same plane, try manual focus. - TF

Her windup and delivery happen so fast that I don't see how it's possible for me to manually focus, but thanks for the suggestion.

[Jaedon]

Try to pre focus. Watch the first few picthes and try to focus when she is in the position you are most likely to snapt for. Then hold that focus and wait for the next pitch. She will step into the frame and if you have been correct in your focus the results will improve drastically.

It's the same technique I try to use on the batters from 2nd base. That way I get the focus set for the middle of the swing where contact is most likely and the shot is the most dramatic.

[SmartWombat]

AI Servo AF (continuous focus) using center focus point
Here's an example of one of my more successful shots.

I can see that being a problem.
You're using centre focus point, and the face is at the top of the image.
Depending on the aperture you're using the DoF may not be enough.

Have you tried using the edge focus point ?
I find mine on the 20D are fast enough for cars in slow corners, so ought to be OK for your pitcher.

Otherwise I agree on the pre-focus suggestion.
Sometimes the only way to get it right is to do it yourself
I found that where there was no contrast side-on to some cars, I had to prefocus even when they were moving relatively slowly.

[jazzone]

I can see that being a problem.
You're using centre focus point, and the face is at the top of the image.
Depending on the aperture you're using the DoF may not be enough.

Have you tried using the edge focus point ?
I find mine on the 20D are fast enough for cars in slow corners, so ought to be OK for your pitcher.

Otherwise I agree on the pre-focus suggestion.
Sometimes the only way to get it right is to do it yourself
I found that where there was no contrast side-on to some cars, I had to prefocus even when they were moving relatively slowly.

I haven't tried any focus point other than the center, which I aim for the chest/waist. My thinking is that this area is a larger target than the face and the center point should be the fastest and most sensitive point. At a subject distance of 60' shooting f/2.8 at 200mm with a 40D the DOF is about 3' and I would guess that the plane differential of the face and chest would be well within that.

[SmartWombat]

For any lurkers, this http://www.dofmaster.com/dofjs.html is a useful tool.

Remember that DoF is the range of acceptably sharp focus, it's still sharpest at the point it chooses to focus on and everything in front of or behind that will progressively blur.

You're right the centre point is most sensitive and accurate.
Provided there's enough contrast on the chest for the sensor to focus properly that ought to work. I'm surprised you got focus with those almost featureless black shorts & shirt.

You're also right using f/2.8 to blur the fence, but is your issue perhaps getting the fence across the lens?
I make sure I'm right up against the fence, with the lens centred over one of the openings in the chain link. With the 70-200 I can use the petal lens hood to hook into the fence and get quite good results. With the 300 f/2.8 the lens front element is so big that I can't avoid getting a little fence blur in the shot

At 1/500 second though if their wind up and pitch is that fast you can't focus on it there may still be motion blur.

How about sharing some of the problem images ?

[jazzone]

For any lurkers, this http://www.dofmaster.com/dofjs.html is a useful tool.

Remember that DoF is the range of acceptably sharp focus, it's still sharpest at the point it chooses to focus on and everything in front of or behind that will progressively blur.

You're right the centre point is most sensitive and accurate.
Provided there's enough contrast on the chest for the sensor to focus properly that ought to work. I'm surprised you got focus with those almost featureless black shorts & shirt.

You're also right using f/2.8 to blur the fence, but is your issue perhaps getting the fence across the lens?
I make sure I'm right up against the fence, with the lens centred over one of the openings in the chain link. With the 70-200 I can use the petal lens hood to hook into the fence and get quite good results. With the 300 f/2.8 the lens front element is so big that I can't avoid getting a little fence blur in the shot

At 1/500 second though if their wind up and pitch is that fast you can't focus on it there may still be motion blur.

How about sharing some of the problem images ?

I try to get right up against the fence too and keep the lens centered on an opening. Maybe next time I'll keep my hand around the hood and physically brace it against the fence. Here are a couple of uncropped examples.

[Homer]

Hey Mike,

There are a couple techniques I use to get shots of the pitchers. If you have to shoot through the fence here is what I do. I will make a U-shape by spreading my index finger and thumb apart, with the opening facing upwards. I then rest my palm against the fence and place the lens (hood on) into this U-shape. I use it for a brace and use my fingers to slightly adjust my hand as needed to get a clear shot.

In these last two shots I really think the blur is being caused by the fence your shooting through. Your just not getting a good focus on them.

I know some might not like this next bit of advice, but do you have access to the field. My favorite position when shooting a pitcher is slightly to the side and behind the catcher. Now I do completely understand that there is an inherient danger of getting hit by a bad pitch or missed ball, but for me it's well worth it. I just position myself behind the catcher and get low and fire away. No obstruction and a nice clear view. Just a thought.

Jim

[SmartWombat]

Ah that helps.

# Lens Type = EF70-200mm f/2.8L USM
# Internal Serial Number? = J0047257
I see you're using my favourite lens, the 70-200 f/2.8 L IS, so it shouldn't be lens AF speed.

First one I wish her foot was in the shot, because it's easy to see the focus on the ground.
From the sharpness of her back foot, and the ground behind her, I think focus is too far away.
The centre of the image is that wisp of blonde hair under her armpit, I suspect the camera was focussed on the background and she moved into the AF point and it's in the process of focussing.

Second one as I see it just isn't really sharp anywhere.
But looking in the bottom right corner it's sharper in front of her foot, I think the focus is too close.
That's odd because the centre of the image of off to the left of her waist, and so should be focussed behind her. I suspect the bat passed through the focus point on the back swing, and the camera hasn't adjusted back yet.


I see the 40D doesn't have the custom settings my 1D has, to choose the speed of AF detection so that objects briefly passing through the AF point can be ignored (slow) or tracked (fast). So my first guess at something to try wouldn't work.

Are you using the AF button on the rear of the camera, or the shutter half-press ?
I use the custom functions on my 1D and 20D to set AF on the * button because they don't have the dedicated AF button.

I far prefer to use the rear button because I can lock AF on a point and then let go the button to get assisted pre-focus (as if my eyesight was good enough to do it manually) and then if it all goes pear shaped and the action doesn't do what I predicted then I can hit * to start focussing.

Using a dedicated AF button would let you choose when to focus, while retaining the exposure lock on the shutter button. If you're careful you can avoid things like the bat swinging through the centre of the frame while you're lining up the shot.

What you can't control except by careful positioning is the fence itself fooling your AF and making it focus too close. I have plenty of examples of car shots through fencing where I've been hit by that problem

[jazzone]

Hey Mike,

There are a couple techniques I use to get shots of the pitchers. If you have to shoot through the fence here is what I do. I will make a U-shape by spreading my index finger and thumb apart, with the opening facing upwards. I then rest my palm against the fence and place the lens (hood on) into this U-shape. I use it for a brace and use my fingers to slightly adjust my hand as needed to get a clear shot.

In these last two shots I really think the blur is being caused by the fence your shooting through. Your just not getting a good focus on them.

I know some might not like this next bit of advice, but do you have access to the field. My favorite position when shooting a pitcher is slightly to the side and behind the catcher. Now I do completely understand that there is an inherient danger of getting hit by a bad pitch or missed ball, but for me it's well worth it. I just position myself behind the catcher and get low and fire away. No obstruction and a nice clear view. Just a thought.

Jim

Jim, thanks for the tip about using your hand/fingers as a cup/brace to steady the front of the lens against the fence. I think I'll give that a try.

However, I think I'll pass on your second piece of advice regarding where to stand. I don't think the officials would let me, and even if they did I wouldn't risk getting hit. With my luck the ball would end up coming down the barrel of my lens. Not a pretty sight. :cryin:

[jazzone]

Ah that helps.

# Lens Type = EF70-200mm f/2.8L USM
# Internal Serial Number? = J0047257
I see you're using my favourite lens, the 70-200 f/2.8 L IS, so it shouldn't be lens AF speed.

First one I wish her foot was in the shot, because it's easy to see the focus on the ground.
From the sharpness of her back foot, and the ground behind her, I think focus is too far away.
The centre of the image is that wisp of blonde hair under her armpit, I suspect the camera was focussed on the background and she moved into the AF point and it's in the process of focussing.

Second one as I see it just isn't really sharp anywhere.
But looking in the bottom right corner it's sharper in front of her foot, I think the focus is too close.
That's odd because the centre of the image of off to the left of her waist, and so should be focussed behind her. I suspect the bat passed through the focus point on the back swing, and the camera hasn't adjusted back yet.


I see the 40D doesn't have the custom settings my 1D has, to choose the speed of AF detection so that objects briefly passing through the AF point can be ignored (slow) or tracked (fast). So my first guess at something to try wouldn't work.

Are you using the AF button on the rear of the camera, or the shutter half-press ?
I use the custom functions on my 1D and 20D to set AF on the * button because they don't have the dedicated AF button.

I far prefer to use the rear button because I can lock AF on a point and then let go the button to get assisted pre-focus (as if my eyesight was good enough to do it manually) and then if it all goes pear shaped and the action doesn't do what I predicted then I can hit * to start focussing.

Using a dedicated AF button would let you choose when to focus, while retaining the exposure lock on the shutter button. If you're careful you can avoid things like the bat swinging through the centre of the frame while you're lining up the shot.

What you can't control except by careful positioning is the fence itself fooling your AF and making it focus too close. I have plenty of examples of car shots through fencing where I've been hit by that problem

I have the non-IS version of the lens. I love the lens but I've only had it for a few months and haven't used it all that much yet. That might be part of my problem... just getting used to shooting with it.

I'm using the shutter half-press with AI Servo to AF track prior to releasing the shutter. I'm assuming that my best chance of getting good focus is to use AI Servo for a subject moving towards me. I could use the AF-ON button to continuously track focus but it's just as easy for me to press the shutter half-way to achieve the same thing.

Thanks for your input.

[DHMN69]

Actually.. try using your AF-ON and if you can get used to it and you'll never use the shutter for focusing at those games. Everyone I've ever talked to about shooting baseball/softball says it makes a huge difference. Especially important when the pitcher or batter is moving I'm finding out each time I'm at a game now. I still consider myself a rookie but it made a big difference even at basketball games once I got the 50D in March.

Every photography message forum seems to have it's long thread discussing the benefits of using it, especially for some sports.

[jazzone]

Actually.. try using your AF-ON and if you can get used to it and you'll never use the shutter for focusing at those games. Everyone I've ever talked to about shooting baseball/softball says it makes a huge difference. Especially important when the pitcher or batter is moving I'm finding out each time I'm at a game now. I still consider myself a rookie but it made a big difference even at basketball games once I got the 50D in March.

Every photography message forum seems to have it's long thread discussing the benefits of using it, especially for some sports.

Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't see the difference between using AI Servo AF with a half-pressed shutter vs. using the AF-ON button.

[jazzone]

I tried Homer (Jim)'s tip about bracing the lens hood against the fence by using my thumb and index finger to support the hood and my palm resting against the fence. This great technique stablizes the camera and helps keep the lens centered on a fence opening. My hit rate went WAY up by doing this. Thanks, Jim!

Here's a shot of my granddaughter in a game Friday night. Since it was a night game, lighting was poor and I had to crank the ISO up to 3200, so the image is a bit noisy. Nevertheless, I'm happy about the results.

70-200mm @ f/2.8 and 200mm, 1/800 second, AI Servo AF

[OldClicker]

Another difference on this could have been that there is something with contrast on the front of the jersey to focus on. - TF

[DHMN69]

To me it's a better ..steady auto-focus with the af-on button.. rather than half-pushing the shutter.. the lens always went searching for focus (the player moves an inch and yer stuck having to start over again) when I only used the shutter half-press to focus so I was stuck to just ONE shot and a play or pitch was over.. maybe I'm wrong but I think there's a LOT more "keepers" when you're not using the shutter to focus in the sports/action (or taking pictures of other moving subjects.)


Canon's own "back button" focus article A much better explanation than me the amateur.

[jazzone]

To me it's a better ..steady auto-focus with the af-on button.. rather than half-pushing the shutter.. the lens always went searching for focus (the player moves an inch and yer stuck having to start over again) when I only used the shutter half-press to focus so I was stuck to just ONE shot and a play or pitch was over.. maybe I'm wrong but I think there's a LOT more "keepers" when you're not using the shutter to focus in the sports/action (or taking pictures of other moving subjects.)


Canon's own "back button" focus article A much better explanation than me the amateur.

I think you missed my point. If you use AI Servo AF (Canon's terminology) and half-press the shutter, the AF keeps adjusting as the subject distance changes, unlike One-Shot AF where the focus locks as soon as you half-press the shutter. It behaves no differently than using the AF-ON button (at least with the Canon 40D).