Need Advice on Poor Lighting Condition

[nickon]

I shoot night football games and I have a problem with the stadium lights not emitting enough light.
I shoot at 1600 iso and still not enough light for iso of 1600. i shoot with a Nikon D70, with a Nikon 70-200mm f/2.8VR lens, NO flash, no tripod.
Should I be using a hot-shoe flash? if so can anyone recommend me a good one?

Any advice you can give?
All is greatly appreciated!

[deckcadet]

Hi.
I wouldn't use a flash unless it was cleared with the game officials and the team coaches at the very least. It can be very distracting. Also, it wouldn't give you a high shooting rate if it needs a lot of power to expose properly.
You could try a faster lens like an 85mm f/1.8.

[JSPhoto]

For football you can normally use flash...it is not distracting. I do not know of any state athletic associations who do not allow flash for football but you may want to check their rules. It doesn't matter what the game officials or coaches say- they don't normally know the rules on flash anyway.
I actually carry copies of the IHSAA rules so if a coach or official questions it I have the proof to back myself up.
There are some sports where flash is not allowed or limited. Volleyball they do not allow it and swimming you cannot use flash until they started and are in the water - no flash during starts or diving.

JS

[nickon]

Flash is not a problem to use, but i thought flash only works a certain amount of distance... So anyways what flash should i been looking at? a Hot-Shoe flash? or a handle mount flash?

Can someone recommend a model that i should be looking at for my D70 SLR?

I am amost all the time zoomed at 200mm with my lens at 2.8

[JSPhoto]

Can't help you with which flash to use, although Sunpak makes good flash units for both Canon and Nikon. The larger the Guide No. the farther the flash can "reach" This number is normally in m/ft (m=meters ft=feet). The flash I use is shoe mounted for football and has a max range of 190ft on full power. Having the flash on the bracket won't make much difference for football although it can sometimes such as keeping the grass between you and the subject from being blown out but I didn't find it that much help.
The bracket simply raises the flash a bit to help reduce redeye and also to make verticle shooting easier by putting the flash in the correct position.
You don't need one of the super large reflector flashes to shoot football, thats better for things like large group shots or racing at night.
You can find a used Sunpak fairly cheap, I got a 433D for $55 that I use on my backup 1D, while the 580EX flash on my MKII N was like $380 (the latter is the one with the 190ft guide no.)

JS

[nickon]

I see thanks for the info, um one more question. Does the stadium lights for pro football games emit enough light for the pros that shoot there, is that why i don't see them use flash or are they just using much faster lens then a f2.8?

[JSPhoto]

I see thanks for the info, um one more question. Does the stadium lights for pro football games emit enough light for the pros that shoot there, is that why i don't see them use flash or are they just using much faster lens then a f2.8?

The NFL mandates that stadiums have a certain amount of lighting, and the photogs use mostly f2.8 lenses although I know a couple who use f4 and f5.6's with higher ISO. You still get dead spots at places like the RCA Dome, but it doesn't hurt you too much. I have never had an issue there as long as I keep an eye on the meter when I get down near the endzones on the sidelines. It's just the four courners between the 10 and endzone that seem to lose some light, maybe a step or two.

JS

[another view]

I can't tell you a whole lot about sports photography or football in general, but I do know lighting. First off, I'd use an SB800 with that camera and with a high ISO at f2.8 you'll have a lot of distance. You might look into an SD8A battery pack if you need a really fast recycle time.

NFL stadiums are lit like Times Square because of TV coverage, and it's very even as well. They need a ton of light, and still photographers benefit from this. I'd bet most of them are using 2.8 lenses as well (200, 300, 400) and probably get faster shutter speeds at lower ISO speeds because of it.

As you go down the line (NFL, big-time college, smaller colleges, high school), then the budgets decrease dramatically. Because of this, you'll have lower light levels and may also run into dark spots on the field. It might not look too bad to your eyes, but on a digital camera it will be a lot more noticable. Another thing is that metal halide lights (similar to mercury which hasn't been used much since the 70's/early 80's) puts out a lot less light over time. IOW, old bulbs = a lot less light. Most people run them until they burn out, and by that time they might put out half or less the light output even though they still draw the same amount of energy...

[JSPhoto]

NFL stadiums are lit like Times Square because of TV coverage, and it's very even as well. They need a ton of light, and still photographers benefit from this. I'd bet most of them are using 2.8 lenses as well (200, 300, 400) and probably get faster shutter speeds at lower ISO speeds because of it.

..

Actually, TV cameras can work with a lot less lighting than our digital and film cameras. It's amazing how little light those cameras require and still make it appear as if it is daylight, but then again the lenses are much better than anything we could afford to use, but then they are like using an f1.0 so what you see is what you get, unlike our f2.8 and so on.
If you have been to places like the RCA Dome the lighting isn't as even as it appears. Even large university stadium lighting isn't that even, but camera locations used for TV crews can limit the effects of the uneven lighting. Most are similar as the lighting drops off toward the endzones.

JS

[nickon]

I can't tell you a whole lot about sports photography or football in general, but I do know lighting. First off, I'd use an SB800 with that camera and with a high ISO at f2.8 you'll have a lot of distance. You might look into an SD8A battery pack if you need a really fast recycle time.

NFL stadiums are lit like Times Square because of TV coverage, and it's very even as well. They need a ton of light, and still photographers benefit from this. I'd bet most of them are using 2.8 lenses as well (200, 300, 400) and probably get faster shutter speeds at lower ISO speeds because of it.

As you go down the line (NFL, big-time college, smaller colleges, high school), then the budgets decrease dramatically. Because of this, you'll have lower light levels and may also run into dark spots on the field. It might not look too bad to your eyes, but on a digital camera it will be a lot more noticable. Another thing is that metal halide lights (similar to mercury which hasn't been used much since the 70's/early 80's) puts out a lot less light over time. IOW, old bulbs = a lot less light. Most people run them until they burn out, and by that time they might put out half or less the light output even though they still draw the same amount of energy...

Thanks hehe i just went out and got a SB800 to see if that helps.

[deckcadet]

Well, I shot a state final soccer game under lights from 4 light trucks at a small stadium about two weeks ago, and there was enough light for a shutter speed that could stop motion at f/2.8 ISO 800.

You don't have much of a choice- With the D70 the only TTL flashes are the SB600 or SB800, and the SB800 is your best bet. You may also want to buy the SD-8A battery pack, so you can use even more batteries in it. Try 2500mah or higher rechargeable NiMH batteries.

[nickon]

Thanks for the help