How about strobes?

[Old Timer]

OK here is the question. How about strobing these dark dungeons that many high school play in? I have seen several examples over on the Fred Miranda site. Some of them look great in comparition to what I can get with my 2.8's in my home gym. I'm thinking about buying 1.4 or 1.8 50mm to shot under the basket with, but wondering about cost of a couple of strobes and how much trouble and time it would take to get them set up. I can get access to the catwalks and mount them for the season if I want. How expensive and what all am I going to need if I do this? Anyone have any experience or knowledge on this issue?

[masdog]

I've read about using strobes, but I don't know how much of an investment they would be. I'm guessing that you would be better off buying the 50mm lens since that would be considerably cheaper.

I'm guessing you would need to get some radio slaves so you can trigger the strobes remotely plus the lights themselves. I don't know what portable strobes go for, but if they're anything like studio lights, the cost would be fairly high.

[JSPhoto]

Not looking up prices but I think it would coat as much as $1000 for the whole setup. The results are great once you get them adjusted and WB setup correctly. You would need two strobes at a minumum with one at each end. All of the schools I shoot at would let me use them but it's a real pain to setup and take them down all the time to go to the next school. One shooter just leaves his up the entire basketball season.
The strobes themselves are the cheap part, it's the radio transmitter & recievers where the cost goes up. But to do it right you really need two at each end.
I went with the 580 EX flash and don't need to mess with the strobes for now, although some day I may get them.
The big question is can you justify the expense vs results and ultimate sales?

JS

[Old Timer]

The big question is can you justify the expense vs results and ultimate sales?

JS

The answer to that is easy. NO!!! But I am so tired of poor light at this gym I could croak. Tonight was a disaster. I shot at ISO 3200 at 200 at f2.8 and the results were not good.
Here is an example.

[livin4lax09]

thought nikons were supposed to be good in low light.... as far as I've looked, you can get a decent strobe setup for less than 400.

[Old Timer]

thought nikons were supposed to be good in low light.... as far as I've looked, you can get a decent strobe setup for less than 400.

Don't think I ever heard that about the D2H. How about a little info on a $400 strobe setup.

[livin4lax09]

well all a 400 dollar stobe setup entails is a ebay radio slave (apparently they work well) and a couple of vivitar flashes. They're not quite as powerful as Alien Bees, but they'll put out quite a bit of light. Check ebay for other strobes too. If you know what to look for, you can look for deals.

[livin4lax09]

http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/301785

check it out. Just found that.

[JSPhoto]

I know the feeling OT, I shoot at three dungeons on a normal basis.

One thing with the cheaper $400 strobes is they do not recycle as fast as the higher dollar units and so you will really have to pick your shots more. The cheaper transmitters alo have a limited distance which is why I havn't gone the cheap route. Check with Roberts Distributors and see if they have any used gear. I can't remember if they did or not from last week when I was there.

JS

[livin4lax09]

my next purchase after my 1d... will probably be... http://www.adorama.com/FP620.html

I don't rely on a fast shutter anyways, plus a recycle time of 1-2 secs isnt bad. A lot of the time I'm waiting 3 times as long as that for my buffer to clear anyways... (mumbles some harsh word about the 300d.)

[JSPhoto]

But in the time your waiting for recycle (1-2 seconds) you can get 8-16 frames with a 1D or 8.5 to 17 frames with a 1D MKII N. The recycle times are important shooting sports, especially in rapid fire during the heat of action.



JS

[livin4lax09]

but you can stop action much better, and have much better color and detail if you strobe.

[JSPhoto]

Not always, it all depends on the camera, lenses and it's user. This guy tonight has to do a lot of post processing to get the color right and his strobes weren't in the correct location to help at the boards, his strobes were actually causing underexposure with anything 4-5 feet from the boards. There were a few problems with his setup: 1: too low 2: too close 3: too weak for the well lit gym.
It took me 10 seconds to figure out the problems he was having.

JS

[livin4lax09]

well as always, if you don't know what you're working with, you'll get poor results. Sounds like this guy didn't really do any research before placing his.

[masdog]

but you can stop action much better, and have much better color and detail if you strobe.

While that is always good to get, it is not always what you need to complete a job.

[livin4lax09]

i didn't say it was necessary. If it was necessary, I would not be able to take photos right now. I was saying it was good to get, so therefore I want to get them. You're arguing the same point as I am.

[hesaias]

Man, you guys got it good. Our coach hates flashes. No flashes. Nada. He is on a 3 championship run, and finished the season ranked #1 in the nation last year, so I defer to his judgement ;)

I shot a round that pleased the kids last night, so I figure when I get a nice fast 2.8 I'll be set.

[HRZag]

Hello All, my first post here.

I recently shot the State Volleyball championships, without flash or a nice 2.8

There was a pro shooter there with a radio transmitter for the big overhead strobes and he offered me the use of his strobes, if I had the transmitter.

I had never used or even considered such a thing.

What do you even look under, on some of the big camera shop sites, to look into this item.

Thanks for all the great input on this site you regulars. I have learned a ton already.

The best part is, I have made some kids and parents, very, very happy with the shots I have taken already. I just want to keep getting better.

Thanks again,

Ed
Nikon D100
Nikor 24-120
Nikor 70-300

[JSPhoto]

Welcome HRZag,

Well it depends on the kind of gear your looking for. A transmitter for strobes isn't cheap, you could use a cheap transmitter but in most cases it won't have the range a good transmitter will.
A Canon LC-5 transmitter is around $485 while this from LPA is a bit less http://www.robertsimaging.com/cmItemDetail.jsp?pid=3618 at $295. Most are around $300 though.
Of course if you need the recievers and strobes your looking at a lot more money, you can't always borrow someone elses strobes.

Lets see some of your pictures!
JS

[JSPhoto]

Man, you guys got it good. Our coach hates flashes. No flashes. Nada. He is on a 3 championship run, and finished the season ranked #1 in the nation last year, so I defer to his judgement ;)

I shot a round that pleased the kids last night, so I figure when I get a nice fast 2.8 I'll be set.

It really depends on the sport Scott. Some of the restraints on use of flash are put into the rules by the state athletic association, and, unless it specifically says that flash cannot be used in that sport the coaches are overruled, therefore if I need flash at a location I WILL use it no matter what the coach says or thinks.
There are some sports where they do not want flash, it's in the IHSAA rules, and thats fine, but for say volleyball, if I am shooting at certain places I will ask both coaches before the event if it's ok to shoot with flash. Only once did I have a coach say no. The paper dealt with that situation very nicely and did not cover another game the rest of the year. When the coach bitched the sports editor told her why, she never said no again!

As for football, there is no excuse for a coach to say no flash unless your in a dome where the lighting is great, but not many high schools play games in a dome, or on bright sunny Saturdays. If I were a coach I'd want the photographers to get the best possible shots and use flash. Whats he do, tell visiting photographers they can't use flash? Good luck, especially outside at night. There are very few outdoor fields I wouldn't use a flash at, and off hand I can really come up with 1 of all of them I have been to.

JS

[livin4lax09]

the ebay slaves apparently work for a distance of 100 ft. They're about 30-40 shipped I believe. Cheap, but they work. Look into pocketwizards if you're looking for higher quality. I want to get a microsync, they look really fun.

[HRZag]

Woah, that Roberts thing is pretty cool.

Not sure what an "ebay slave" is and haven't looked into a "pocketwizard".

Should I just put the money towards a fixed 2 .8 Zoom? On my little zoom, fully extended, it would be at 5.6. I know that means the 2.8 would double the light (right?) is that enough of a differance.

From reading other threads, I could slow the shutter speed down a bit (from 400) and shooting at ISO 1600, Noise Ninja cleans that up.

I would prefer not to use a flash, but had never even considered the strobes. Not that I would ever buy the whole strobe setup. It was intruiging thinking about using someone elses.

Thanks again for your comments, on this and on all the other threads. They really are very helpful.

Ed

[JSPhoto]

HRZag,
Most sports shooters have at least a 70-200 f2.8 lens as it's good for everything, but yes, the f2.8 is a huge gain and a lot faster than f5.6, it will allw for lower light. Depending on what your shooting flash may also help a ton, but certain things you can't use flash for, others you have no choice...depends on what your shooting and where.

JS

[JSPhoto]

Well I didn't expect this! It looks as though I am in the market for a set of two strobes and transmitter.
A new deal I am working on will require some creative lighting for portraits in different locations. I need a set that can be setup and broken down fast as I will have to run from location to location. I guess I'm also looking into a remote as well.
This project just "appeared", and it could mean a huge jump in business for me overall as well.

JS

[Old Timer]

This project just "appeared", and it could mean a huge jump in business for me overall as well.

JS

Hope it means a huge jump in income as well. It sounds like things are really happening for you.