Help with photos in gym

[Mule]

I recently tried to shoot some volleyball action and was disappointed. I didn't like the lack of a crisp image of the athletes. The pro working the same gym had flashes mounted in the ceiling. I'm sure that was a big help. I wrestled with whether I should use my Nikon 600 flash with a difuser because I didn't want to be too distracting for the athletes. What are the lenses and settings most people use for basketball and other sports in a gym? What are your thoughts on using a flash?

[Tiago Rohrsetzer]

I'm completely against using flash mounted in the camera, I don't use them even if that makes me boost to a higher ISO. Using them in the ceiling I've never done so I can't say much, but I don't really like flash in sports anyway, might be less distracting for the players, or not since in volleyball you jump looking up, getting the flash in the face is not (speaking as a varsity volleyball player) the best thing in the world.
Lenses for inside the gym are the fastest possible, depends on where can you stay during the game... 85mm f/1.2 is a great call if you can get fairly near to the game, otherwise use f/2.8 minimum. My setting is usually A mode (Av), lenses all the way open, and adjusting the ISO depending on need to be able to stop the action.
Take care,

Tiago

[JSPhoto]

Here we cannot use flash for volleyball, the IHSAA has rules against it. The only way to use flash is get permission of both coaches which normally won't happen. So up goes the ISO to 1600. You need an f2.8 lens. But check the rules of league or association first. You can normally find them online.
As for basketball, no problem there, I use one all the time.

JS

[brhitch]

Mule,
Haven't shot volleyball for a while but when I did flashing was a no no, at least as far as on camera flash was concerned. Not sure what the rules were on strobes off camera. I have seen fans in the stands flash volleyball but as a working phojo I try to play by the rules. Now that I have remotes, when volleyball comes around again I may try mounting a set of speedlights to rails on the balcony to see if I can get away with it. The gym I am used to shooting at is extremely dark with a nasty yellow color cast so it's 1600 iso and flash for basketball and hope for the best even with a fast lens. Light was slightly better in the gym last time I did shoot volleyball there a couple years ago. I shot 1600 iso and sat in the stands slightly above eye level with the net and in line with the net. It gave me a good angle to shoot both teams. If you aren't on a tight deadline and you can shoot RAW. Takes a little longer in post processing but it helps.

[berrywise]

Would be nice to see a newspaper just tell the teams they won't cover the sports because they can't get the quality they want for their papers. I'd bet you'd see some about faces when it comes to these silly rules.

Having played sports growing up, and knowing athletes all the way up to the college you'd be surprised at the percentage that say they don't even notice you and your camera. They're focused on the game.

That being said on camera flash doesn't always make your photos look any better anyhow. Getting the flash off camera almost always is a positive thing.

[Mule]

Thanks for the comments. Berrywise, good point, most would want the attention. The publicity people at the college understands the need for good lighting but I'm told visiting coaches are the ones who raise questions. As a former college basketball player I agree that flash photography was almost never distracting unless directly in your line of sight.

With basketball season I'll experiment with ISO and my 50 mm 1.4. And if all else fails I'll have to make the jump to that 2.8 zoom lens that keeps calling my name.

[JSPhoto]

Nothing wrong with on camera flash IF you use it right...ie: fill flash. But the rules are not up to the schools, it's the organization they belong to. And it's those organizations where the rules need to be changed, then again most state associations go by national rules. Take football. Here in Indiana the IHSAA uses the NFHS football rules so to make a change in the rules here you need to fight the NFHS, not the IHSAA. I guess were fortunate that if we did fight them over a rules the NFHS is based right here in Indy.It's actually easier to keep bugging the schools AD and school board to get better lighting than try and get rules changed. Either way it can take years, and in most cases either you way you will end up paying. I have complained about the lighting in one gym for 7 years and was told last Wednesday they are going to fix it next summer when they do the addition on the high school, ir's all part of the plans that I and many other taxpayers are paying $87 million dollars for and why my property taxes went from $265 every six months to over $585 every six months! At least then I can stop buying batteries for there. The rules makers always use the excuse that the flash is distracting and a safety issue, but do not consider 1: those rules were made in the days of flash tubes and bulbs that had much higher output and on occasion exploded. 2: they sometimes allow strobes (most of the time in fact) but do not consider on camera flash as a strobe which is what they are now. 3: here again I put a bug in the ears of all the IHSAA officials every chance I get, and I see them often
So until the rules get changed, it really isn't up to the schools other than fixing the lighting issues as they have to abide by the rules of the state athletic association. In t he meantime get equiped to deal with bad lighting. #1: f2.8 lens 70-200mm works great in the Canon line, you can try the 50mm f1.4 but I doubt you'll be happy with it. 2: learn to use the flash in fill flash mode, they work great when set properly and you get experianced with it.


JS

[dhyravy]

Very good points that JS makes above. I would only add that at least here in KY, the rules allow flash both on-camera and remote. I personally won't use a flash on the camera, first because I don't like the look with the shadows and all then second because I think it is distracting if not to the players to the fans. I have no problem with remote flash mounted up high either on the sides or overhead and use them for basketball at every game I shoot. Even fast glass doesn't always get it done in some of the dungeons around here. Our two high schools got new lighting last year and it is FAR better than most other schools I shoot at. However, I think anyone shooting indoor sports seriously should invest in lenses fast enough for the job as well as a set of triggers for remote flash when required. Contrary to popular belief, you don't have to have a set of studio strobes to do this. I use 2 Sunpak 383 hotshoe flashes with RF triggers in gyms up to 10,000 seats with very good results.

[rgusberti]

Tiago, and others out there...
Have any of you actually used the Canon 85mm f1.2L for indoor sports? I have searched the web and found mixed things. Apparently, and not surprisingly, it is a great lens for portraits, weddings, and the like (razor sharp images, great background blur, you name it). The comment I saw the most, re indoor sports, is the slow AF.
I just got the 40D and shoot my son's hoops (middle school gyms/lighting/poor) using the 85mm 1.8. It seems I have to push ISO to 1600 to get the shutter speed up enough to stop the action, not to mention juggling the WB settings. Some of you are probably thinking, you want to be a photographer?, experiment, learn the settings, learn the art. I promise, I am not looking for a quick fix. This is an issue that has been posted here and many other forums. Lacking strobes, is there any answer to the incumbent noise we'll see at ISO 1600?
bobg

[JSPhoto]

Although the 85mm & even 50mm are very light friendly cameras they are not anywhere fast enough in most gyms, unless you have some supper good lighting, and then you still have to prefocus because the AF is so slow, even on a 1D MKIIN.

JS