2nd Comeback Win in a Row!

[Scott_F]

We were down last week by 15 with 7 minutes left in the game and won. Scored 3 TD's in 7 minutes. I use the word "we" because my DNA is on the field.

Last night, we were down 21-0 in the first half, came back to win 35-31. An unbelievable game.

Here's a photo of the last play of the game. They are in white and were attempting a Hail Mary for the win. We took our superstar Wide Receiver (#9) and turned him into a Defensive Back for that last series. Brilliant coaching move since this kid can catch anything, runs a 4.3 40, and has the best vertical leap of anyone on the team. I've got it in 5 fps Glory!

We denied the pass and won.

[Scott_F]

That last photo is of one of the two Defensive Backs that defended that play. He's a great ball player, but his emotional release was a combination of relief and happiness. It's hard to have the weight of the team on your shoulders.

[Scott_F]

My son #60 plowing the road on the winning TD!

[Scott_F]

I just had the 20D in Aperature Mode (Sigma 70-200 set to 2.8 all night), ISO 3200, Shutter speed was averaging about 1/640 or 1/500 pretty much all night. Not enough light in this end zone and I had no flash.

[JSPhoto]

Nice action Scott. My team lost 21-20 after trailing 21-0 going into the 4th quarter last night. First losing season in 28 years is just a week away, and it will be a losing season. They are going up against the undefeated conference leader next week and we just don't have the talent this year. I say that yet their kicker will be headed to Notre Dame next year! ;) Going to the team he has watched all his life and it's just 30 miles from home!

Well considering you shot these at 3200 and such a high shutter speed you did pretty well. I think I'd want to stay at 1600 or below on the ISO and slow the shutter a bit which would help you a bit. You have the handle on getting the action thats for sure.
I think if it were me I'd find myself a used Sunpak 433D flash and use it manually. After each shot look at them and see how they look and adjust accordingly. I normally shoot between 160 and 250 shutter speed, 800-1250 ISO, f2.8 and 1/4 to 1/8 flash all in manual mode for night football.

JS

[Scott_F]

Help me understand this rationale: slowing down to ISO 1600 and slowing the shutter down.... what will that gain me? I thought the idea was to stop the action with a high shutter speed.

I guess the question is, how low a shutter speed do you need to still be able to not have motion blur?

Thanks for the help. I do not see myself going the flash route any time soon. I know I "should", but I hate the darn things.

[JSPhoto]

Help me understand this rationale: slowing down to ISO 1600 and slowing the shutter down.... what will that gain me? I thought the idea was to stop the action with a high shutter speed.

I guess the question is, how low a shutter speed do you need to still be able to not have motion blur?

Thanks for the help. I do not see myself going the flash route any time soon. I know I "should", but I hate the darn things.

lol, yeah, I wish they had one that didn't require batteries.

Basically the lower the ISO the lower the noise... aka less grain in the shot. Motion blurr isn't a bad thing in sports, in fact, it can really add to some shots. I have shots at a well lit field at 160 shutter that didn't have motion blurr, but I like to stay around 200 - 250 and ISO 800 -1250.
As for motion blurr, a shot of a runningback running showing motion in his lower legs is a whole lot more appealing to me than when the legs are "frozen" which takes the feeling of movement out of the shot.

JS

[Scott_F]

But, generally, what shutter speed will freeze the action?

[JSPhoto]

But, generally, what shutter speed will freeze the action?

Although a lot of things determine it, whether you are panning with the action and so on so an exact number is hard to give, it depends a lot on technique, type of action such as speed and the gear being used. I can freeze a sports play at 160 if I want to, but it's easier to work with 200 or 250, even 300. There are many variables to consider... experience and practice being just a couple. The more you shoot the better you get, the more things you try and then you find yourself trying new things as well. You will soon find a settup that works for you and gives you the results your looking to get. Don't get me wrong, your shots are very good, your getting good action too, I just think that you could do even more and get better results at lower shutter speeds and lower ISO.
JS

[JETA]

Whoa! Look at #60 go!! Congrats on a great win!

We lost our first game of the season last night. I thought I was going to cry myself to sleep. It was one of those games where you are the better team, but the coaches just do some stupid stuff. It was neck and neck the whole way until the very end. We lost 21-14.

[livin4lax09]

if i may have a word...640 is about what it takes to freeze action, typically. You can get away with slower speeds for a lot of sports, for example, any sport that requires jumping. At the peak of the jump, the athlete will actually come to a stop, then start falling. Get that correct timing, and you can get a sharp photo. You will get blur at 160 and 200. when I get back to my dorm I'll show you a picture taken at 250. Everythings blurry. Some sports just move too fast. It all depends whether you want to freeze the action or show some movement.

[JSPhoto]

if i may have a word...640 is about what it takes to freeze action, typically. You can get away with slower speeds for a lot of sports, for example, any sport that requires jumping. At the peak of the jump, the athlete will actually come to a stop, then start falling. Get that correct timing, and you can get a sharp photo. You will get blur at 160 and 200. when I get back to my dorm I'll show you a picture taken at 250. Everythings blurry. Some sports just move too fast. It all depends whether you want to freeze the action or show some movement.

I guess we will have to disagree here.... I stop action all the time at 200 and 250, with and without motion blurr. It depends on many factors, but practice and experiance are the biggest, because with them everything else falls into place, knowing how to deal with different lighting situations etc.

Below photo shot at 200 shutter speed 1600 ISO no flash, and in the fog.
And below that shutter 200 800 ISO with flash

[livin4lax09]

can you send me your original file for that first photo to livin4lax09@comcast.net? I'm not going to do anything with it, I just want to view all of the EXIF data for myself. I REALLY am having a hard time believing it's shot at 1/200, especially since the ball doesn't even have any motion blur. You know what they say "believe nothing of what you hear, and only half of what you see."

Once I see the exif data for myself, I'll believe it. But just due to all of my experience, I find it hard to believe that's shot at 1/200. Like I said, when I get back to my dorm, ill send you my 1/250 photo, where just about NOTHING in the photo is in focus, except for the background. Every player is blurry.

[Jacqui]

I shot this at shutter speed 250, no flash. Most of it is pretty clear except for movement in the feet. If you are panning with the players or the players are coming at you, there is less motion in the subject than when they are moving perpendicular to the lens.

If all of the players are blurry but your background is clear, might you have been focused on the background rather than the players? If you were on autofocus, this could have happened.

[Scott_F]

I have had to work real hard on teh autofocus thing. I lose a few shots per game due to it. But, for the most part, the servo auto focus thing works pretty damn well.

[JSPhoto]

can you send me your original file for that first photo to livin4lax09@comcast.net? I'm not going to do anything with it, I just want to view all of the EXIF data for myself. I REALLY am having a hard time believing it's shot at 1/200, especially since the ball doesn't even have any motion blur. You know what they say "believe nothing of what you hear, and only half of what you see."

Once I see the exif data for myself, I'll believe it. But just due to all of my experience, I find it hard to believe that's shot at 1/200. Like I said, when I get back to my dorm, ill send you my 1/250 photo, where just about NOTHING in the photo is in focus, except for the background. Every player is blurry.

Yeah, I can send it to you, I'll have to find it though, it's either on another drive or CD now as I move them off the main drives.... now which of the 6 data drives or 300+ cd's and dvd's it's on are another story... These things happen when you have over 100,000 photos, and thats just from my 1D, not counting the two cameras before it.

I need a better catalog of all my shots....

JS

[JSPhoto]

The photo is on it's way to you. It was third from the bottom of 30 CD's on the first spindle I grabbed....that was luck!

FYI, I used Neat Image to clean up the noise, much more noticeable in the version your getting.

I will let you post the shot settings

JS

[livin4lax09]

well I'll be damned. JSphoto has proven me wrong. Sweet shot, and at 1/200, it's all the more interesting to me. I guess you can get away with shutter speeds that are slower, but you have to time it. Some sports it just doesn't work. It all depends on movement. Really wishing I could show you the lax pic im talkin about...

[JSPhoto]

well I'll be damned. JSphoto has proven me wrong. Sweet shot, and at 1/200, it's all the more interesting to me. I guess you can get away with shutter speeds that are slower, but you have to time it. Some sports it just doesn't work. It all depends on movement. Really wishing I could show you the lax pic im talkin about...

now for the secret...... practice practice practice and more practice...

Actually, it does take practice, but add to it, panning evenly with the subject speed wise. This is one case where a heavy pro camera and lens come in very handy. The weight is balanced perfectly. There is no IS on this lens (Sigma 70-200) so I didn't have any IS help. The weight also limits things like mirror vibration which adds to motion blurr and the shutter button is so sensitive you don't move the body when firing.
The panning is the hard part to do, especially with light bodies, which I didn't beleive until the first night I had my 1D and got 50% more keepers. Panning was so much easier.

JS

[livin4lax09]

oh yeah.....I totally forgot about a crucial factor here... you're using a monopod, aren't you? Mine's been broken for so long I completely forgot about it.

[JSPhoto]

oh yeah.....I totally forgot about a crucial factor here... you're using a monopod, aren't you? Mine's been broken for so long I completely forgot about it.

NO!!! I hate the things, I shoot everything handheld!! As far as I am concerned they should ban monopods and tripods from sidelines and only allow them well away from the field... kids get hurt by those things.
I have other comments about the use of them but I'll keep those to myself

JS

[livin4lax09]

you're shooting with a 1d and a 70-200 handheld? wow. No need to go to the gym.

[JSPhoto]

you're shooting with a 1d and a 70-200 handheld? wow. No need to go to the gym.

I tried to shoot with a monopod and just don't like them, they limit certain moves. In fact the shot I sent you would not have worked with one.
Yeah, the camera and lens are heavy, however I have shot with them for three years. I think what helped me though was handling that big ole goalies stick when I played hockey. ... that really gives you a strong arm and elbow... helps the shoulder too.
Try holding them through 5 football games in two days.... I'll do that again the day after Thanksgiving this year.... all five state championship football games All shot handheld.

JS

[livin4lax09]

oh my drebel with sigma f4-5.6. WHat a lightweight.

[JSPhoto]

oh my drebel with sigma f4-5.6. WHat a lightweight.

I have a drebel.... even with the Sigma 70-200 on it I can shoot one handed The drebel will now be relegated to the "backups backup", as soon as the MKII N arrives tomorrow morning. The Sigma lens will be retired to backup service as well since it will be replaced by the Canon 70-200 USM IS... wish they would have come today though! I was supposed to be at a college JV football game right now, instead I got an emergency call to shoot the girls high school soccer sectional game up the street at 5pm...I wish the papers staff photographer got docked pay and they gave it to me each time he pulls these stunts.

The new gear will get a workout the next couple of weeks.... soccer, volleyball and football sectionals all begining this week and next. I may get a bit stronger too... that new 28-300 USM IS lens weighs 3.7 pounds, added to the 3 lb MKII N it's almost 7 pounds. Add the flash and it's over 7 pounds. Should be interesting! Can't wait for UPS to arrive tomorrow!!

JS