Posing

[Sandi Z]

I recently started taking senior pictures. All of the seniors have been girls. Girls are easy to pose, this one did it herself. Any ideas on what to do with the guys? (other than the traditional 'lean against the tree with arms crossed')

[katt]

Watch hands, arms, and fingers. The 'spider spread' isn't very attractive (imo).

The first shot, her front shoulder looks awkward and her left arm is also a bit off. Make sure that you can see a bit more of her arm or something. Because as it stands now, you see the hand with an odd bend to the wrist and no forearm.

I like the lean of the overall photograph in the first and the exposure in the second.

[waxgoblin]

shes purdy

[Irish]

In Oz a senior usually refers to a "senior citizen" (old fart like me) so your images are a pleasant surprise. I like the natural pose and lighting in these images. The background in the first image seems a bit blown? You might try posing the young men in front of a "hot" car or motor bike or other object with a little more masculine appeal. Maybe use the tech shop as a location rather than out doors.

[waxgoblin]

http://www.fantasycars.com/gallery/G..._037_18R-1.jpg

idono i guess i could see that girl posing in front of a car, but never a guy. have a dude sitting on his but with his body in a zig zag formation ya know with his hands, but, and feet on the ground but his knees and shoulders up, with the sunset/rise in the background something something.

[Lava Lamp]

Personally speaking, I've never gotten a photo I like using a tree as a "prop." Brick stairs, iron railings, flower gardens, etc. work better for me. Over the years, I've found a few places in town that work and keep going back to them.

The girl is nice-looking and the light is good. But honestly, I don't think the tree adds anything in this picture. As for posing, I'd suggest that you pull out your favorite senior pictures you've taken and ask the girls to emulate the ones you like best.

[shesells]

shes purdy

lol wax...

[shesells]

Very nice model and good photography but I have to agree that the tree has got to go. It makes her look like she's posing and not natural. I mean, do you ever go up and lean on a tree like that? well, unless you'r a hippy tree hugger.
I don't take posed shots but the suggestions here made sense, about the hands etc.
Kit

[Sandi Z]

Okay - I am considering the advice, but...I don't think I've ever seen a senior picture that wasn't posed.

[Todd Patten]

Sandi -- I completely agree with you! Senior portraits are by definition, posed It's like stating that a studio shot does not look natural and instead looks posed. Well, um, yeah. It's a studio shot

In the first photo the leaning tree is distracting. I suspect that this was done on purpose, but in this case it is not as effective as others. I have seen people do it here VERY effectively. However, most of the time the focal point is the person doing the posing and the appearance is of them leaning IN to the photo, where this one appears to have her leaning out of the photo.

I also think that, for senior photo's in particular, you want the framing to be from the waste up and not the whole body. While I do enjoy admiring the body of a young lady as beautiful as this, it will not appear well in a small senior album. Maybe it will be good for larger images that people purchase for themselves.

I like the recommendation on the fingers. A small but important detail.

Waxgoblin -- What the heck are you talking about with the fantasy cars thing?!? I know sarcasm may not come across over the web, but that seemed to be an insult, if not a cheap shot towards both the young lady and the photographer. JMHO.

[Sandi Z]

Okay, I guess I'm just feeling frustrated. In our area, it is customary for the seniors to have their "studio" shot for the yearbook, but to also have numerous poses to give as wallets to friends. These are supposed to be fun shots, and the girls love to have about ten different poses. I usually take two rolls of film so that they will definitely have their ten poses. You know how picky they can be...expressions mean everything, so I take a lot of photos so they have a lot of choices.

I agree that whole body shots shouldn't be wallets because they are just too small. But I do have parents having 8 x 10's made of them. I also know about the "leaning into the shot" rule, but you can't have 48 shots that all look alike, so I try to do different things. That girl just climbed up into that tree and I thought she looked adorable. Maybe I should have made her put her fingers together, but she was so happy with the photo when all was said and done...

I do appreciate the feed back, but like I said, I'm getting frustrated. My clients are happy, but I can't seem to make any of you happy, and that matters to me. I do want to improve. Sorry this is so long.

[Todd Patten]

Sandi -- You want to improve but you don't want constructive criticism? this does not make sense to me. I believe that most of the comments here are constructive with the goal of adding input that you may not have already concluded.

There are those here who post their images and get nothing but "Ooooo's and Ahhhhh's". They are well deserved and few and far between. Even the same folks who consistently take amazing, professional shots receive critical reviews.

Personally, I want someone to pick apart my images. I want to know what can be better. I also want to learn from other's critiques. That's what the site is all about.

Sandi -- these are good images. Better than anything I have to display. There is room for improvement. So be it. There are very few who are up to the calibur of Hodgy, AC and others. Until then, I'll take the criticism and learn from it.

[Sandi Z]

Todd:

I appreciate the time you are taking with me. You were the first to welcome me; I'll remember that.

I don't mind criticism and yes, I know I have to learn to deal with it. My problem is trying to figure out what is opinion and what is true constructive criticism. I realize that is just a part of all of this. For example, I'm reading a photography book right now by John Garrett. He has numerous examples of his work in which body parts are cut off, but he doesn't seem to think that is a problem and points out the positive of the lighting, or the expression, or the composition. I sit there reading it and think, "but the arms are missing" or something like that. It didn't matter to him, so I guess in that instance, it's an opinion thing. I guess all of us could look at any photo and think how we would have done it better. Is that constructive criticism or opinion? I'm sure this has been debated here before many times.

I'm new here, so I don't really know the regulars and who are the favorites, or who does the best work. I'll find out in time. If my work stinks though, I'd like to know now so I can get off of here and stop wasting everyones time. I'm not sure of how professional you all are.

How is this one?

[opus]

Sandy, I understand your frustration. You didn't exactly post these pictures for critique, you were asking for advice on a different issue, about how to pose a guy. I completely empathize with you.

What should matter to you most is whether your clients are happy. Take the critiques here as things to work towards improving. I know I do. But be happy with the job you're already doing, because your clients are happy and that's all that matters.

As far as how to pose a guy, make sure to ask him ahead of time what his interests are, and try to work with that. If he's in band, get shots with his instrument, maybe on the football field if he plays before games. Does he like cars, sports, horses, music, etc.? Find out, do some thinking outside the box, and work with that.

[mikehulsebus]

Ah yes, Kelly's comment reminded me of something. I had a drummer friend of mine get pictures of him playing on his using flaming drumsticks with a long exposure--it looked really cool. I guess the trick would be figuring out how it was done without ruining the set.
I see a lotta guys get shots of them sitting in front of their cars or in front of a rack with their letter jacket on it, but those seem pretty, for lack of a better word, lame to me. Usually to incorporate the object in the shot you've gotta ruin the composition of the photo. Of course maybe you could find a good way to get it all in.
Oh yeah as another piggyback idea, if a guy plays sports, why not try taking some action type shots? If he's a linebacker stick him on a field and have him look like he's in a game (zoomed close enough so you can't tell he's alone on the middle of a football field) or if he's into golf why not get a shot of him on the driving range. High school is a world in which you're defined by what you do, so I'd imagine that these type of shots would go over pretty well.
Haven't done any of these myself, just throwin out a few what-if's

[RedWingsSuck]

I remember taking a senior photo squatting down with the camera ground level or a little higher and shooting up at me. Other than that I just did the standard leaning arm cross.

[mikehulsebus]

Hey who was it in the critique forum that shot portraits of the guy to send back to his family? I looked for it in the past threads but couldn't find it (we critique forum people don't always use the most descriptive subject lines )

[Lava Lamp]

Okay, I guess I'm just feeling frustrated. In our area, it is customary for the seniors to have their "studio" shot for the yearbook, but to also have numerous poses to give as wallets to friends. These are supposed to be fun shots, and the girls love to have about ten different poses. I usually take two rolls of film so that they will definitely have their ten poses. You know how picky they can be...expressions mean everything, so I take a lot of photos so they have a lot of choices.

I agree that whole body shots shouldn't be wallets because they are just too small. But I do have parents having 8 x 10's made of them. I also know about the "leaning into the shot" rule, but you can't have 48 shots that all look alike, so I try to do different things. That girl just climbed up into that tree and I thought she looked adorable. Maybe I should have made her put her fingers together, but she was so happy with the photo when all was said and done...

I do appreciate the feed back, but like I said, I'm getting frustrated. My clients are happy, but I can't seem to make any of you happy, and that matters to me. I do want to improve. Sorry this is so long.

Sandi, I look to criticism to do two things: 1) tell me at a basic level whether people like the photo; and 2) offer me specific suggestions. The first item is usually the most helpful and sometimes the most suprising. Sometimes the shots I think are best are greeted with a big yawn and sometimes shots I think are throw-aways are popular. Interpreting the second item is usually trickier. Sometimes people give contradictory advice, sometimes they try to sound like they read it in a book, sometimes their advice is just plain stupid, but sometimes, people see things that you don't and help you see things in a different way. It's up to you to take it all in and have faithin yourself to filter out the bad advice and make use of the good.

Referencing what I wrote: If you like photos with trees, ignore me. But I'd pay more attention to something liek the "spider hand" comment, keeping in mind that none of these rules are hard and fast. It's art, not science. I think the tricks to master the fundamentals and then break the rules as long as you know you;re breaking them.

[Sandi Z]

Kelly:

Thank you! You brought up the issue that I wanted to address (how to pose a guy), but got distracted with the other stuff. You're right, I did ask a question and it got lost somewhere. You have given me ideas that are helpful, and I'll keep that in mind.

[Sandi Z]

Thank you all for the discussion. I did find it helpful. I feel like I am getting somewhere and I understand where you are coming from.

Lava - I happen to like the tree shots. You don't, and that's okay. If anything, your aversion to trees will make me look at the surroundings a little differently and maybe try to get away from too many tree shots. I know that I do take too many of those (people tend to like them though).

I guess I should feel fortunate that I haven't had bad comments on the lighting (which is the hardest) or the contrast or the subject. I had spider fingers in a tree. I can deal with that.

I know that when critiquing, a person should be objective...try to remove themselves from likes and dislikes and focus on the actual technique. That is very hard to do because our minds see things a certain way. It's also true that this is an art; no "right" way or "wrong" way, but it is easy to look at something and know right away that you either like it or you don't. I took this picture of my daughter which she absolutely loves, but I'm not too crazy about the angle.

Sorry for stirring up a bees nest.

[opus]

Oh, and Sandy? Listen to your gut. I've learned that there's as many opinions as there are people. If you don't like a critique, then listen to your gut. Your gut will tell you right away if someone is right about something. If you're confused between what you like and what someone else says, then it's probably an opinion. But even still, consider the advice, because you may come to realize that it's pretty good advice.

[katt]

You know, after reading through everyone else's input (which we all learn from) I just realized that you wanted input on GUYS!!! teach me to read more posts better.

For guys:
typical head shots tip the head toward the Far shoulder (this is IF you tip the head one direction or the other)

Squating (okay, that doesn't sound very pleasant but...) I'm sure you can figure it out.

Maybe some slightly more dramatic lighting? That would depend on the situation I suppose.

Guy hands look better in fists then softly enlongated hands/fingers.

Watch guy chins, they tend to drift upwards and you may end up looking up their nose.

One of my fav. things to do is look through other photographer's websites and 'learn' their poses. i would especially go through VERY established studios (you know the ones, the ones that have been doing Senior photography in thier town for the past 100 years) and see what they do.

One of my fav. saying is: You Gotta Know the Rules to Break 'em.

[Sandi Z]

Kelly and Katt:

Thank you both. Before I became really interested in photography, I took my daughter to "the" photgrapher for senior pictures in our area. He suggested three changes of clothes, and we took both casual and dressy. My daughter changed into a short black sequin dress (from a dance) and he took her outside to his fake bridge. He posed her on it, and I'll tell you, it was the worst scenery for that dress that he could have chosen. If she had been wearing a springy, flowered dress, it would have worked. The scenery was spring-like and light and the sun was beating on her head so that her blonde hair looked fakey white. It was a far away whole body shot and was just awful. He of course charged an arm and a leg and I was so disappointed that I started doing photography on my own. I'll never go back to him. He was very interested in making the hair and clothing lay right, but didn't have the eye for what clothes belonged where or what expression was on her face. I have seen my daughters friends photos and they all look alike. Same scenery, same poses, same huge prices.

[katt]

Looks like you're on the right track. As long as you learn from what you've seen, good or bad it's all good.