LightRoom vs PSE 7

[Ron Kruger]

I'm testing LightRoom 2.2 and PhotoShop 7.0. So far, I'm very impressed with PSE 7, but I'm having some difficulty with LR 2.2. Even though they are of the same family, operating in LR is much different than the PS programs I've been using for years.
I've actually figured out how to do most things I want to do so far, but I can't seem to export cropped photos to My Pictures. Even though it shows a cropped image in LR, it exports the same size. Everything else I've done has exported fine, but not cropped.

[Ron Kruger]

The clouds parted this evening and I got some pix of that big, full moon with my long lens. I processed each of the three best shots in both PSE 7 and LightRoom 2.2. Same shots, different software. PSE did a better job.
Of course, this is not my usual shot, but in the coming days, I'm going to process some of the same shots in both programs for the best comparison.

[Photo-John]

Ron-
Photoshop and Lightroom are very different programs and they have different purposes. Lightroom is intended more for photo management, global processing, and batch processing. It's strength lies in its speed and volume. Photoshop is much more powerful and flexible. And even though they're both Adobe programs, they were developed completely separately. Lightroom was actually developed from the ground up, without using any of the Photoshop UI. I think they used it as sort of a development project for creating new tools and user interface features. That's why the two programs look and work so differently.

I use both Lightroom and Photoshop on all of my images. I use Lightroom to manage photos and do my initial sorting global adjustments, and RAW conversions. Then I use Photoshop for final fine-tuning. They are not mutually exclusive in my workflow. They are complimentary tools and it's rare that I don't use both on a photo.

I have noticed color differences between the two programs. I know there shouldn't be any difference. But I haven't been able to track down were the difference is coming from. Lightroom and Photoshop approach color management in a different way. But they should still display images the same way. Unfortunately, for me they don't. That's another reason I use Photoshop for fine-tuning. If I knew exactly what color I was going to get, I might pass on the Photoshop for some images. But for really sophisticated images, I still go to Photoshop for masked adjustment layers masked adjustment layers aren't available in Elements). That's where the real power of Photoshop is.

I hope that helps explain things a little. I'm not sure what the deal with the crop is. When I apply a crop in Lightroom and export the file, it's always cropped when I open the TIFF in Photoshop.

[drg]

Ron-


...

I have noticed color differences between the two programs. I know there shouldn't be any difference. But I haven't been able to track down were the difference is coming from. Lightroom and Photoshop approach color management in a different way. But they should still display images the same way. Unfortunately, for me they don't. That's another reason I use Photoshop for fine-tuning. If I knew exactly what color I was going to get, I might pass on the Photoshop for some images. But for really sophisticated images, I still go to Photoshop for masked adjustment layers masked adjustment layers aren't available in Elements). That's where the real power of Photoshop is.

John and Ron,

The color space in Adobe Lightroom is subtly different than Photoshop. The color space in files that do not have an embedded or the profile is 'missing' or damage will default to sRGB. There are no warnings in Lightroom other than you may see a visual difference in what is displayed.

Adobe Lightroom has an Edit space that is unique. Often called Lightroom RGB it is not exactly what it might appear. The big differences are:

- It uses the chromacity from ProPhoto RGB for a larger color space in a dimensionalized map.
-The Gamma is 1.0 instead of 1.8.

Now here's the hidden part of this that is real tricky -

The Lightroom Viewing space use the same ProPhoto RGB chromatices but now, here it comes, it uses the sRGB tonal response curve!

So, simply stated, photographs viewed in the Library module and in the Develop module can appear quite different to the experienced eye. They are different!

I've been researching some of the reasons for this and there actually appears to be some valid reasons for doing this that go way beyond a 'quick' answer. The one big reason is that it works better with RAW files in matching the native output color of each type of camera.

Of course this doesn't change anything with your photographs as they are all being edited in a completely loss less mode.

Generally speaking make sure that Color Management is switched ON in Adobe Photoshop so that there will be an embedded profile available to Lightroom.

I'll get some more notes up on this soon.

[drg]

I'm testing LightRoom 2.2 and PhotoShop 7.0. So far, I'm very impressed with PSE 7, but I'm having some difficulty with LR 2.2. Even though they are of the same family, operating in LR is much different than the PS programs I've been using for years.
I've actually figured out how to do most things I want to do so far, but I can't seem to export cropped photos to My Pictures. Even though it shows a cropped image in LR, it exports the same size. Everything else I've done has exported fine, but not cropped.

Ron,

When you say cropped and size . . . are you refereing to using the cropping tool to create a 'size' of image or a piece of the original 'cropped' out?

Size is controlled at the time of export in terms of i.e. pixel dimension that is specfied by long side, short side, both sides etc.

Cropping is done with the crop tool in the Develop module and it doesn't (shouldn't) whether you 'set' the crop by hitting enter. I just exported a photo to test it both ways. Same as desired cropped image either method.

If you are cropping in the Library Module, you may not be cropping but just setting the crop ratio. That's a different function.

Let me know and I'll help you muddle it out. Check the tips about unlocking the crop tool as well!

[Ron Kruger]

DRG and John: You guys are a wealth of help and information. I've pretty much decided on PSE 7, because it gives me a lot more optons and power and seems to handle color better than the full versions of PS I worked on years ago. Where I've noticed LR seems better is for correcting really messed up shots with one click, but I almost never need to do that, because I shoot a lot and edit down so that I'm only working with good shots to begin with. I already have a management system for my photos, so I don't need that part of LR.
I was trynig to crop in the Library Module, instead of Develop. Thanks, DRG. I'm familiar with the way PS works, but that's not the biggest deal. LR doesn't seem that hard to learn. The biggest deal is that PS does some thing I need on a professional level that LR doesn't offer. And then there's the compatibility issue. I realize they are both Adobe, but some version of PS or Quark (sp?) is what almost all publishers use, and I'm sure none of them have LR. May not cause a communications problem, but it might, because as you mentioned, it was developed separtely. LR is a good program, but it is designed for the average guy, with easy, one-touch controls, while PSE seems aimed at the professional photographer, without the advanced design elements of the full versions.
If I'm reading any of this wrong, don't hesitate to correct me.
I wouldn't mind having both, but I can't afford that, and besides, I'd probably end up doing most everything in PS anyway.

[Photo-John]

LR is a good program, but it is designed for the average guy, with easy, one-touch controls, while PSE seems aimed at the professional photographer, without the advanced design elements of the full versions.
If I'm reading any of this wrong, don't hesitate to correct me.
I wouldn't mind having both, but I can't afford that, and besides, I'd probably end up doing most everything in PS anyway.

Ron-
I think you've got it completely backwards. Lightroom was designed for working pros who need to quickly and efficiently handle large volumes of images. Wedding and catalog photographers come to mind. Photoshop Elements is essentially Photoshop Light. It is a simple version of Photoshop made available for enthusiasts who can't afford or don't need the full version of Photoshop. These days, most working pros I know are using Lightroom and Photoshop together. You use Lightroom for batch processing and RAW conversions and then use Photoshop for fine-tuning and local, masked adjustments.

If Photoshop Elements gets the job done for you, that's great. It does for most tons of photographers. But I wouldn't want to be without Lightroom anymore. It's an integral part of my workflow - both for image management and image processing. I hate having to do RAW conversions with any other program. It's got really powerful tools and it's a really efficient program for quickly tearing through large numbers of images.

[Ron Kruger]

Hmmmmmm. Thanks, John. For what I do, which in most cases, is as little as possible, PS works fine, and I've decided I have to have it because of some of the things it does that isn't available on LR, but you certainly have me thinking I need both, and better play around with LR some more before making a final decision.
The thing about LR that impressed me most, was how I could easily adjust the exposure on JPEGs, and that saved a dark shot that I was going to trash, but liked the composition. But I processed some good shots of various types in both programs, and liked PS better in all cases.
What you say about RAW conversions also interests me, because I've decided I'm going to shoot everything in RAW/JPEG, so I'll be processing more RAW images. I received some processing software from Pentax with my camera, but I like using it less than LR, and I'm not at all convinced the Pentax software is all that good, even though it was designed specifically for the camera.
I also can process my RAW images in PS 7, so I guess I need to experiment with processing the same RAW image in Pentax, PS 7 and LR, then compare.

[Ron Kruger]

Well, I just don't know. Maybe I'm missing something with LR. I took an old RAW image from my camera that had a slight problem and processed it in all three programs--not once--but a couple of times, keeping it simple for the first, then manually adjusting the second. Had six 8-bit TIFFs sitting there, and really didn't like any of them. Finally took the RAW image back into Pentax, and instead of trying to adjust anything, simply saved it to 8-bit, then took the TIFF into PS, hit only Auto Contrast (which I've always suspected does more than just adjust contrast) and had what looked to me like a far better image than the rest.
Maybe it's me. I don't claim to be a PP expert and don't really want to get into doing a lot of it. Like a couple of editors have told me, it's best to leave that to the real pros on their staff and concentrate most on getting the image right when the shutter is pressed.