learning to post-process?

[opus]

How do you learn the best way to post-process? Just fiddle around until you get the effect you want, and over time you figure out what suits you best? Or is there a better method, a book out there or something that tells you what generally works best?

Do the pros ever reveal their secrets, or is that considered part of what makes you "pro"?

[JTurner538]

www.nobsphotosuccess.com <~~~~~a little pricy but the best educational "book" i've come across. invest the money, download the books, buy the dvds....it'll change how you look at photoshop! I'm not affiliated with these guys besides being a very satisfied customer. Go check them out!

[opus]

I bought one of their intermediate packages ... I think the highest one that doesn't include the DVDs. His info is great, but is more about wedding and portrait photography. I'm wondering things like in landscapes: how do you get water to look very smooth, how much should you saturate the colors, do you apply softening and then sharpening, etc.

[Peter_AUS]

Hodgy is a founding member of this website.

[Trevor Ash]

It's my belief that this is something you learn over time and for which a book/dvd cannot fully teach you. That's not to say they're not valuable tools, but they're just that, tools.

What makes a person good at post editing is their creative use of tools in achieving the effect they are after. And this of can only come with practice of course.

Certain people (Hodgy for example) have specific styles in how they do their post processing that makes their images look like theirs and not everyone elses.

What you probably want to learn is as many of the common techniques as you can, books and dvd's will surely help with that, as will asking questions on the forums. The fun in it all for me (and hopefuly you as well) in in figuring out how to apply these techniques to new problems and challenges.

My advice? The next time you have a photo to do post processing on take a moment to write down all of the "things" you think you want to do to it. Then attack each "thing" one by one until you get the result you want. If you can't figure out how to get the result with the knowledge you currently have, hit the internet or the local bookstore for answers.

One more thing. Although "Layers", "Adjustment Layers", "Masks", "Layer Masks" and "Curves" initially sound like they are cryptic to learn, they actually form the foundation for which EVERYTHING you do to an image in Photoshop is used. Don't skip these subjects as you're learning.

Finally, you need to come visit me in Crystal Lake as soon as I get my books back from Gurnee so that you can borrow them. I have two excellent books on Imaging and Compositing and one Photoshop book (slightly outdated but still useful). Before you borrow the books, learn what you can about using each of the tools in the toolbox (brush, pen, selection tools, dodge/burn brush, gradient thingy, etc).

I promise you you'll be well on your way to "Photoshop Freedom"

[opus]

Thanks, Trev! I think I'm probably to the point of being able to borrow those books, skillwise -- I have a degree in Electronic Prepress, which included entire semesters of learning and using the Photoshop tools -- but timewise I'm a bit tight right now.

And about what I learned in college: they taught us to use all the tools, but as for technique they pretty much focused on only the common things we'd need to do to get photos to print well. The "color guys" got to do all the fun, complicated and creative stuff.

I use curves and layers regularly, but I gotta tell ya that those big ol' orange masks always scared me a bit. I had no idea how to use them correctly. I should learn more about them.

I can cut a mean path, though.

Thanks for helping me narrow it down to clarify where I should be looking.

[Asylum Steve]

Kelly,

This is really something that should be addressed in the Digital Imaging Forum, but as you got the conversation going already, I'll just jump in...

The two books I live by right now for PS post-processing are Real World Camera Raw with Photoshop CS: Industrial-Strength Production Techniques by Bruce Fraser and Adobe Photoshop CS: The Art of Photographing Women by Kevin Ames.

The first one is an essential, general guide to using the PS CS Camera Raw as well as the PS File Browser. It de-mystifies the RAW workflow, and provides ample proof why working with that format is so much better than jpeg. It also outlines basic editing and image correcting DURING the conversion process, and most importantly shows you how to automate and speed up your workflow.

The Ames book is much more fashion/portrait specific, giving a tremendous amount of useful information on working with and editing images of people. Still, there are many good points about the Raw workflow in general that can be applied to any types of subjects.

IMO, the first one is one every ps'er should own, the second one you may want to spend an hour or two in a book store checking it out and taking notes...

BTW, I consider Hodgy a friend and a great guy, and I certainly applaud his success, but his ps techniques produce a very stylized type of image, one suited perfectly to his wedding and portrait work, but also one that can be catagorized as a sort of glam/soft focus kind of shot that many traditional shooters (and viewers) do not like.

[Liz]

I don't have PS - just PSElements 3. However, there is a book that I noticed while checking out something similar for PSE - and I thought about you. It looks like a big seller. You might want to check it out. It may not help you, but then again.

http://www.wiley.com/WileyCDA/WileyT...764541749.html

http://www.wiley.com/WileyCDA/WileyT...764536729.html

Liz

How do you learn the best way to post-process? Just fiddle around until you get the effect you want, and over time you figure out what suits you best? Or is there a better method, a book out there or something that tells you what generally works best?

Do the pros ever reveal their secrets, or is that considered part of what makes you "pro"?

[Asylum Steve]

Yeah, that first one is on my collection, too...

Trevor touched on this slightly, so let me expand his point. There are two basic ways to learn PS: from the inside out, or from the outside in. Both are legit as they allow you to create and edit your images the correct way and (hopefully) get the results you want.

Inside out means you dissect PS and all it features, learning what each does and how it affects the image, learning how each tool or filter interacts with the other ones, and eventually determining a step by step procedure for editing your pics. This is the method many (if not most) of us have feared or loathed at one point or another.

Outside in means "the end justifies the means". IOW, you get a book or find a tutorial that shows an effect or edit you like and simply follow the steps taken to achieve the same or a similar effect with your pic. The beauty of this method is you don't even have to know what you're doing. If you can follow directions, you can duplicate the effect. ;)

Truth is, the best way to learn PS is to combine these two techniques. For the first year or two (at least), I slowly learned the features and shortcuts of PS while performing much more advanced techniques on my images simply by following someone else's directions. There is no shame in that.

The books Liz recommends follow this second method. They give very good step by step techniques for editing your images. The trick is to follow them and start absorbing the reason why you do some of these steps.

Before you know it, you won't have to follow a tutorial, but rather (as Trevor says) simply figure out on your own what you want to do to a pic and how to go about doing it.

The other thing time will help with is the fact that many of the basic PS techniques are so repetative, they will soon become second nature. That's when you start learning the more advanced stuff...

[Trevor Ash]

That was an awesome response Steve. I agree 100% with you viewpoint and opinions. I wouldn't mind seeing this thread moved over to the Digital Imaging Forum as it does gets asked quite a bit.

[Chunk]

Kelly, I have a book called "The Photoshop CS book for Digital Photographers" by Scott Kelby. It one of the step by step books without indepth explanations of the theory behind everything. I think it's pretty good if you can put up with the wise ass writing style. The guy is editor of something called "Photoshop User Magazine". The book was recommended to me by one of the regulars here.

I'm not going to need it here for about a month and a half if you would like to take a gander at it. We could work out some way to get it over to you next week if you like.

[opus]

Thanks for the offer, Chunk! But I don't think I'll have time in the next month and a half to really take a good look at it, myself. I'll probably first be doing any processing at the end of July, after we come back from vacation.

Up until then, I'll be pretty involved with the play I'm in.

I took a look at the book on amazon.com, and it looks pretty good. I just might pick up my own copy so that I have it at my fingertips.

Thanks!

[opus]

http://www.wiley.com/WileyCDA/WileyT...764541749.html

http://www.wiley.com/WileyCDA/WileyT...764536729.html

Liz

Thanks for this, Liz. I'll take a look at these soon. Like I said above, I probably won't have time for much photography in the next six weeks, but then after that my summer is f r e e !

[opus]

I was at B&N last night and the Photoshop CS2 for Digital Photographers book jumped off the shelf and into my basket.

I also picked up Photoshop Elements 3 Down & Dirty Tricks for 40% off. I got it more for the ideas than for the techniques. But it looks fun.