running circles

[natatbeach]

I posted this the galleries section and would like specific ways in which to make this shot the most it could be. I really love this shot and Charles has uggested some ideas but I wanted to get a feel for others take on this...

Thnaks guys and gals

[Elysian]

I don't what you mean with "in which to make this shot the most it could be".
I mean, it's one specific moment when you took the shot. We can't go back in time.
Do you want suggestions for a different crop or things like that?

[natatbeach]

obviously time travel is not something I can do...so with that in mind and taking things into consideration such as composition, lighting and overall appeal...feel free to share your two cents and then some...on what might im,prove this shot. Thanks

[Chunk]

I posted this the galleries section and would like specific ways in which to make this shot the most it could be. I really love this shot and Charles has uggested some ideas but I wanted to get a feel for others take on this...

Thnaks guys and gals

Thnaks?? Are you hungry?

I think that when you come on a situation like this you have to do what you did and catch a shot that captures the exuberance and fun that kid is having before it stops and is gone. Once you have that you can try making improvements if the action continues. This could be a stronger shot if the kid was seperated a little more visually from the people in the distance so that there was some pavement showing below that woman's feet. You could try to get this with placement of the camera, timing the shot or maybe a higher angle, although I like the angle for this shot the way it is.

I think the subjects vigorous pose is very good. You could also try to capture both feet off the ground and the front foot solidly on the ground with the rear being brought forward.

Once while looking down at an art fair while changing film in my camera, I saw a preschooler hopskotching on the large paving stones of a plaza while all about her adults were all engrossed with the much more mundane objects in the artist's booths. By the time I got the film loaded everything had changed with the kid being held by the hand. I missed that shot, but think of it once in a while. I'm glad you got yours.

Now I have to go see what Charles had to say.

[natatbeach]

Thnaks....is my messed up way of always typing thanks...since I type NAtalie my hands naturally try to switch those letters....and frankly I get lazy changing it every time....

I learned so much from trying random shots of people this weekend...it opens up your mind to sing a lort more than what you would normally notice and watching interactions between people was great. I met a sailor, an Asian family (who for whatever reason wanted to take pictures of me with their family), a couple from orlando visiting, and had a blast talking to everyone.

I only got one other shot and it was this one...I thought it had way to much going on...

[Elysian]

Ok, my honest opinion again, kill me if you have to.

I think the child is not separated enough from the background. It's like the "branch/tree/post grows out of the head" example, in this case the legs of the woman.

The focus is too much on the center of the image. I personally think that we should avoid this if there is no specific reason.

The child is running in circles? The only thing the viewer sees is a kid running and I have kids myself and they always have a reason to run; they play with others, run after a ball and things like that. Again, the viewer doesn't know the kid is just running in circles so they're left with an unanswered question. I like to see that child in this image like a child and not like a lonely jogger. That's just the way I look at it, take it the way you want to take it.

Technically it lacks a full range of grays, some areas should have been brighter. It also doesn't happen that often that you find those deep blacks on a sunny day, because of the ambient lighting. All objects that are exposed to sunlight reflect light which brighten up shadows. So I would like to have seen more details in the blacks, it just looks a bit unnatural now.

I like the idea of the whole photograph though! Please don't stop experimenting.

[PuckJunkey]

The only thing I would change is to zoom in a bit more next time so the girl fills more of the frame. Absent that I would say just crop a little more liberally. Hope you don't mind the example...

[natatbeach]

see I knew you were holding out....

everything you said I can agree with and I can learn from so---thank you.

[natatbeach]

except for the woman growing from her head ;)

i adjusted the levels and contrast cropped and dofged some too dark areas...I think it looks better and has more centralized focus but I've looked at so long I've lot perspective...so what do you think?

[Chunk]

except for the woman growing from her head ;)

i adjusted the levels and contrast cropped and dofged some too dark areas...I think it looks better and has more centralized focus but I've looked at so long I've lot perspective...so what do you think?

I think it's stronger this way. Good work.

[natatbeach]

and contrasty...I see improvement but i think it's a bit too much...who knows...

[Elysian]

Natalie, it is indeed too contrasty.
It's important to know how to correct an image like this.
Every picture has an area that is the brightest and an area that is the darkest part.
Most people tend to find these with their naked eyes and that's when mistakes are made.

It's important to use Photoshop instead to find the brightest and darkest areas. How do we do that? We go to Image/Adjustment/Threshold to open the Threshold tool. We slide the slider to the left until we find the brightest area. We mark this are with a Color Sampler, by clicking on the area with the Eye Dropper tool while holding down the Shift key.
We don't click on OK, but move the slider to the right to find the darkest area and we mark that area with a second Color Sampler. We then click on Cancel.

Now we go to Image/Adjustments/Levels. Use its black eye dropper tool to sample the blacks we marked earlier and use the white eye dropper tool to sample the whites that we also marked. Now slide the middle gray slider of Levels to balance the image. Knowing the cirumstances of the shot (weather, time of day), might help you with this.
(Remove the color samplers by dragging them out of the image with the eye dropper tool.)

You now have a complete range of grays and you have avoided that for example faces become too white (A) or that you lose details in the bright(B) or dark areas. With the wider range of grays we also avoid that pictures become too dull or contrasty.

[natatbeach]

awesome Thanks so much!!! still trying to learn PS and that was VERY helpful... a new tool to try...i really appreciate your efforts...I'll give it another go....Thanks again

[Seb]

Hello Elysian,

I have been reading your explanations to Natalie with great interest considering that I am learning pretty much everything about Photoshop myself (I am starting from scratch!).

Now, I have tried your method with a random picture of mine but there is just one point that I dont get here. What do you mean by "Now slide the middle gray slider of Levels to balance the image". I am sorry if I am asking about something that may be plain obvious but I don't know where to move this slider. I mean, it's dead on center by default. In my example there is a lot of black (the curve have a peak on the left). Should i move the middle gray slider to the right to compensate??

thank you in advance for sharing your wisdom.

Seb

[Outdoorsman]

While the age-old problem of (subjectively) correct exposure can now be fixed easily with digital editing tools, the responsibility of good composition still sits on the shoulders of the photographer. Here's a very easy fix: change the viewpoint. Most adults don't think about how a child sees his or her world. They see it from about three feet above the floor. Us adults see it from five or more (don't quote me!) feet from the floor.
So if your intent is to make an image that evokes an emotional response that adults can easily realte to, ie "Kids are so silly. Look at that one running in cirlces! How childish!" then you've acheived your objective. But a little memory work might help here. Recall when you were small, like the child in your shot. This kid is oblivious to the people, who are pretty much everywhere. There is no thought about whether anyone cares, in fact, the kid probably has no idea that anyone might be watching.
To really get that great kid shot, start by getting down on their level. yeah, you have to get your knees dirty, but that's where the fun begins! Get down, get dirty, see the world from their perspective. Then get far enough away with a long lens so the kids won't notice. Use a wider aperture to ignore those dumb old grownups. And then have fun! Keep focused (if your camera will let you) primarily on the face. The blissful ignorance on a child's face as he/she is lost in an imaginary world is priceless; it's the stuff of great shots. Don't worry about exposure- just keep those finger reflexes honed. Exposure can be fixed in PS. Getting the shot cannot. Good Luck!

[natatbeach]

and I agree ...this shot could have been a lot more interesting from a different vantage point. I was unfortunately more interested in catching up to my husband and son and pushing the stroller to do so...;)

the reason I took the shot is because I loved how in her own world this little girl was. She was in fact running in circles over and over again---hence the name of the shot---not very creative on my part. perhaps I should have called it---Unimaginative crap shot of stupid kid running. I think too many adults spend way to much time trying to have people undersatnd them than just simply living life...and my objective is not reperesent it from the kid's point of view---but from an adult point of view and vantage point---a subtle reminder of a time left behind.

Believe you me i don't need to "remember" what it was like...I spend most of my days getting on my knees and getting dirty with my soon to be two and three year olds.

Forgive my slightly defensive response...although your reponse came thru as very informative it also had a certain "tone"(not very nice at that) to it...did I just misunderstand your "passionate" way of expressing yourself? I must have...I look forward to your response and I appreciate your take on this shot...not everyone sees things the same way---and that is a GOOD thing.

[Elysian]

Seb, the middle slider is the gamma slider and focuses on the mid-tones in the image.
I took an image that needed a correction (1). I set the black and white points which resulted in image (2) and as a result we have caught all the details in a full range of grays. The image is however too dark; sky, snow and pants. Especially in the pants details got lost. They're still there, but their values are too close to pure black. That's when I decided to move the middle slider to the left to a value of around 1.57.
Et voila, without sharpening our image even looks sharper. That's why it's so important to balance the black and white points in the correct way and I do that by using my eyes. Most of the time I use the details in the darker and lighter areas as my guideline or I take weather or time of day in account. Every image asks for a different middle slider setting, there is no straightforward solution. All I can say is... practice. After a while you really get the hang of it, trust me ;)

Needless to say that it's important that the white and dark points of your monitor are well calibrated.

Make sure that you always use a Levels Adjustment layer, that way you can always go back to try different values. Always try to work in a non-destructable way and adjustment layers and masks can help you with that; they leave the original intact and it's easier to make some adjustments at a later stage.

Btw, I used Threshold and color samplers to mark black and white points, but you can also use the Auto button in the Levels tool. Just a different approach, for others reasons, but the effect is about the same. Use what suits you best Seb.
Maybe interesting to know that the Auto button has Options you can use, the lowest button in the Levels window when you have Photoshop CS. For some older versions of Photoshop (if available) you'll have to hold the Alt key first to notice an Options button.

Levels is not always the ultimate solution for a correction like this, but still widely used. There are situations that you want to use Curves or sometimes you only want to adjust one specific area by using masks, but for most images Levels will do just fine.

[Elysian]

Most adults don't think about how a child sees his or her world.

Exactly, very good point. Entering the world of a child. It's those little things that give an image that extra strength. Take for example a picture of a carpenter, posing in front of the camera without tools. Now take a shot of a carpenter with his tools. Let him use his tools and you get even more impact. You want to express speed? Add elements that express it. Want to express height? Add an element that builds on anxiety. It's exactly those important elements that often get unnoticed, however it's often these elements that make an image stand out.

Many times you'll read; "I took this shot when ...". It's that challenge as a photographer to "write" the story in the image itself. I consider that one of the most beautiful parts of photography and the major reason why I love this hobby so much.

[Outdoorsman]

Hey, sorry about the tone- I most definitely was not trying to hurt your feelings! We all have emotions attached to our work- I would be an ass to expect anyone to dump their feelings about an image. It is, of course, our emotions that drive us to make good images. We like the way certain scenes make us feel, and so to drop the feelings leaves us with a bunch of "blank" images. You obviously saw the potential for a great shot- just didn't have the time to work the subject. I know this all too well. Life usually occupies most of our time.
Just think, did anyone else take the shot? Nope. Only you. No one else froze that moment in time- you made the (harried) effort to get the shot, which is what our craft is all about. Like I said before, exposure can be fixed later, but PS cannot get the shot for us- you were in the right place at the right time, ready to shoot, which is more than can be said about any of the people there on that day. Keep up the great work- I'd love to see some more B&W kid shots. Good luck!

[natatbeach]

just trying to understand the passion ;) behind the response...

Now I have a feel for the way you communicate so it's all good... I re-read with less of an attitude on my part andand assuming none on yours and as I said before it is great advice...and I get it. thnaks for the clarification.

[Seb]

Hello Elysian,

Thanks a lot for these great informations. So far, the very few b&w conversions that I have done were simply made by removing colors and playing with contrast to make black pop (a simplistic method to say the least...). While I feel that I have achieved decent results I guess that it mostly was beginner luck. I think that my work should be improving from now by using the right method.

regards

Seb