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i like the title very simple, i like the bike as well,but the position of it all way too centered and the background is just too distracting my eyes are always taken off and brought to the waiters expression, which steals from the object,perhaps cropped up to the edge of the table tops and recropped to off center the bike would be best in my opinion,.
The bicycle is too centered? Breaking one of the "rules", no? This is sad because I like to break the rules. Not too much but a little. You are "distracted" by the surroundings? This word is used much in critiques and here you have used it again. So, remove the surroundings (especially the waiter for he is stealing from the bicycle!), yes? Then we have the title, the red bicycle. To crop to the bicycle but not too centered. I think maybe I understand...
I am back! To add this comment for I think maybe I didn't fail.
The couple is so intently interested in what the lawyer/real estate/? man has to say - something important maybe. The two women out for a meal to exchange friendly gossip when there is a call - who could it be? Then there is the mystery of the waiter examining two freshly poured and served beers with no patrons in sight...
...and the red bicycle placed prominently in the middle of this scene (centered to break the famous rule!). Who's is it? Why is it right there and not put away somewhere? Were they in a rush?
Critics might say the background is too distracting. But I say it is good this distraction, yes? This is a "street" shot, no? Anyway it is my picture and I still like it.
Your image has many interesting elements and I can see why you chose to shoot it.
Yet I agree about the centre placement of the bike and the distracting background. Breaking the rules is good, but the visual flow has to support it. In this composition, the bike is anchored in the centre, which means the whole image may not be properly appreciated because the viewer's attention is pulled to the one spot and will have trouble getting away from that.
If the bicycle had been further away from the restaurant crowd, and not directly under the menu board or even using a shallower DOF, could help create some separation from the busy details in the background, and give the eye a chance to pause on the different elements in a more relaxed way, rather than trying to absorb everything at once. The little details that you saw are actually lost, and the experience is not as enriching.
I find it more interesting when "ordinary" objects are shown from a different perspective than how they are usually seen. Choosing a lower position or unusual angle, would make the bike more dramatic. You could still keep the bike in the centre of the frame (breaking the rules on purpose!), but change your shooting position, e.g., moving to one side, perhaps showing more depth by having the front wheel loom larger than the back. Just some ideas.
I'm a big fan of street photography and I do like what you wanted to capture :thumbsup:
I don't see the background as a distraction. To the contrary, I think it adds depth and richness to the image. There isn't just one story going on there; there are multiple narrative threads and I'm curious about all of them. I tend to be partial to photos that beg the question 'what's going on there?" and the longer I look at this photo, the more that question seems to pop into my head.
If you had cropped out Reba McIntire and her friend on the right (best cropping option, IMO), sure, you'd have solved the dreaded bicycle centeredness issue, but you'd also be depriving us of an interesting story, not to mention... those flowers.
My only "suggestion" would be to try in b/w. I'd like to see what that looks like.
Take all of the above with a grain of salt; I definitely do not claim to know what I'm talking about. I totally understand where everyone else is coming from, but I dunno... i like what I see here.
I feel you dont like critique much. I like the pics I take but I have found that following critiques here has helped me to get better. If you are posting pics here to have EVERYONE praising your work maybe is the wrong forum for you and maybe suggestions are just wasting your time.
I feel you dont like critique much. I like the pics I take but I have found that following critiques here has helped me to get better. If you are posting pics here to have EVERYONE praising your work maybe is the wrong forum for you and maybe suggestions are just wasting your time.
Having said that I agree with Polarbear and Frog.
So your critique is to attack me? Hah!
I am sorry to have opinion too. I am not allowed to give this opinion? To disagree with other opinion? Maybe I do not understand what is to mean "critique' here. I have much to learn from the expert photographers on this place, yes? You are much better in photographer knowledge than me so it is not important what I say, no?
Chaman is not attacking you.
He is saying that if you like your picture so much that you don't want critique of it then why put it in a critique forum?
Before this degenerates I'd like to remind everyone that clearly English is not Guillermo's native tongue. What might come across as defensive may very well be meant in a completely different way.
I am back! To add this comment for I think maybe I didn't fail.
The couple is so intently interested in what the lawyer/real estate/? man has to say - something important maybe. The two women out for a meal to exchange friendly gossip when there is a call - who could it be? Then there is the mystery of the waiter examining two freshly poured and served beers with no patrons in sight...
...and the red bicycle placed prominently in the middle of this scene (centered to break the famous rule!). Who's is it? Why is it right there and not put away somewhere? Were they in a rush?
Critics might say the background is too distracting. But I say it is good this distraction, yes? This is a "street" shot, no? Anyway it is my picture and I still like it.
It's great that you like your picture. In the end, that's all that really matters anyway.
However, people post in this forum because they're trying to improve their photography. One of the best ways to do that is to hear comments from other photographers with varying talents and vastly different experiences, and with relatively trained eyes. In other words, people who might offer points-of-view that you never even thought of. Then the next time you're out shooting, some of those points-of-view might seep their way into your consciousness, encouraging you to make better, more informed choices.
For instance, next time you come across a scene like the one you shot above, you might remember what others said about distracting backgrounds, centered subjects, etc., and that might lead you to approach the scene in an entirely different way (and, more importantly, a way in which you never before even considered).
If you are simply pleased with your work, are not interested in those points-of-view and feel there's no room for improvement, then I'm not sure I understand the point in posting here.
"Photography as a fad is well-nigh on its last legs, thanks principally to the bicycle craze."
-- Alfred Stieglitz The American Annual of Photography, 1897 L.A. Landscapes
Chaman is not attacking you.
He is saying that if you like your picture so much that you don't want critique of it then why put it in a critique forum?
Yes, yes, i am sorry, it is attack. This message is attack too. I am sorry to say this.
So, only put picture you do not like for "critique"? This is silly.
In this forum, "critique" is same as "lecture"? No discussion allowed? I am not allowed to say opposite feeling? Other forums, they critique this photo same as you, I say same as I say here, they continue to critique but no attack just because I say my opinion too. Why different here? Why everyone ask why I post picture if am going to speak too. "Please shut up and listen only" is what I am hearing you say.
If you are simply pleased with your work, are not interested in those points-of-view and feel there's no room for improvement, then I'm not sure I understand the point in posting here.
Dr Roebuck (like Dr Phil of this forum ?!), thank you for long explaining. Is very good. But, again, post only work that I hate - not work I am pleased with? This is silly. Everyone just post picture they are unhappy with? I think no.
When did I say I am not interested in what other say? Of course photo is not perfect and is different opinion to everyone, yes? But I am not everyone too? I am not allowed to discuss, no? Only lecture from other posters? This is how to be in this forum?
I think this is turning out to be a big misunderstanding.
Posting pics we like for critique can help us better understand what works - or does not - in the image.
Critiquing is about getting feedback from the viewer - how do they respond to the image and why? The why part is important. Some pictures work better for some people than for others. Understanding what doesn't work for those other people is part of the learning process.
Dr. R, I liked this:
... people who might offer points-of-view that you never even thought of. Then the next time you're out shooting, some of those points-of-view might seep their way into your consciousness, encouraging you to make better, more informed choices.
For instance, next time you come across a scene like the one you shot above, you might remember what others said about distracting backgrounds, centered subjects, etc., and that might lead you to approach the scene in an entirely different way (and, more importantly, a way in which you never before even considered).
The waiter and lady on the cell phone is very distracting on this shot. I spend all my time looking at them and my eyes are completely drawn away from the bike which is the key to the title of this shot. A different angle on the bike might have worked, but right now the bike is definitely not the focus point of the pic.
Dr Roebuck (like Dr Phil of this forum ?!), thank you for long explaining. Is very good. But, again, post only work that I hate - not work I am pleased with? This is silly. Everyone just post picture they are unhappy with? I think no.
Not at all. By all means post a picture that you love; after all, you should be your own toughest critic. But again, you're limited by your own experience, talent and knowledge. Once that image passes your self-test, then the only way to continue being challenged in your craft is to let others view and critique your work.
"Photography as a fad is well-nigh on its last legs, thanks principally to the bicycle craze."
-- Alfred Stieglitz The American Annual of Photography, 1897 L.A. Landscapes
Since I foresee where this is going I can assure my intentions were not to attack anyone. How could I attack someone I don't know? I feel there is little else I can say except that, again, this is a great bunch of gals and guys that really know about photography and are more than willing to share. This is not a competition whatsoever and if respect is shown, critique is accepted and welcomed the more people will be interested in helping. But if your attitude towards constructive criticism is so overly defensive, it starts to become overly offensive. I will refrain from commenting about any other of the thread starter pics in the future.
Since this thread has become so darn popular, I feel compelled to comment
I have to say that I'm with the minority (draymorton) on this one, I like it a lot. What I see is the red bicycle being used as an anchor holding together what would otherwise be a snapshot of random chaos. It is the one spot of calm in the middle of all the activity. Even the menuboard behind it is chaotic. The color is repeated evenly and often throughout the shot - tablecloths, woman in the back, man in the front, waiter, flowers, bottom of menuboard. There is very good symmetry and balance in this shot, and I'd bet that a lot more thought went into the setup than most realize. If I didn't know who took this, I would guess Yoyo Setzo or PhotoWillem to be the photographer (and Guillermo, that's a pretty damn big compliment).
My opinions carry no more or less weight than anyone else's, but I am always fascinated by shots that polarize the community. I remember FotoWillem getting the same type of feedback on his portrait of a woman a few month's back, some thought it was horrible, others thought it was brilliant. There will probably never be a consensus on who was right or wrong, but I see this photo falling into that same category.
That's what's great about the critique forum. You get a nice mix of thoughts, ideas, etc. that you can pick and chose from. This is one of my favorite areas to look through as the advice can often help me in my own work even when given to other photographers.
When I post a picture in the Critique forum I am looking for others to make suggestions that would improve my photo. I find that when I read the comments on mine or other members photos quite often there are comments about things that I hadn't even noticed or considered. Posting a picture there to me is about learning to improve on my picture that I think is good and make it even better.
The first thing I do when I look at a picture is to form an opinion of what I think about it and what changes that I think need to be made. Next I read the other comments and see if they match my opinion or have seen things that I have missed. I will have to say that many times things are mentioned that I hadn't noticed but by getting other members ideas my ability to see things in a picture has gotten much better.
To me this forum is not about good or bad pictures but it is about seeing how to improve each and every picture posted if at all possible, Jeff
Added comment....
Don't think of the comments as finding flaws in your photo but of things you can do that will make it even better.
Check out my websiteHere My Nikon D7000 Tips thread is HERE
All images posted by me anywhere are Copyrighted by Federal Law and may not be copied or used in ANY FORM without my personal written permission.Jeff Impey "I decided years ago I was only going to have two types of days...Very Good Daysor just Plain Good DaysI just refuse to have Bad Ones!!! :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
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Originally Posted by chaman
