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  1. #1
    Captain of the Ship Photo-John's Avatar
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    Question More BW G2 Bike Stuff

    Shooting with the G2 and converting to BW again. This location (Calabazas Park - San Jose, CA) doesn't have the best backgrounds. I can do pretty good there with the SLRs and a flash, but the increased depth-of-field and limited controls on the G2 make it hard for me to really get what I see. However, converting to B&W takes color out of the picture (literally), makes the G2's image quality less of an issue, and helps focus on the real subject.

    Blah, blah, blah. So what do you think?
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails More BW G2 Bike Stuff-img_6321.jpg  
    Photo-John

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  2. #2
    Senior Member Charles Hess's Avatar
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    I see that your G2 remains a handy tool for you when biking. In this image, I think if in color, it might have been just too busy, with all those trees competing for attention. As a b&w, the rider stands out nicely in front of those tree branches. The onlooker helps gives us some perspective as to the height of the jump. Good one.

  3. #3
    Member ThoughtfulPirate's Avatar
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    Really really cool john, I shot in black and white for a few shots today. I am going to post those later. I like this shot a lot, he has that really flattened out.

  4. #4
    Bloody Cyclist Poobah's Avatar
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    Works for me. I, like Charles, like the presence of the onlooker. I see him looking up and my eyes move up to the top of the frame where the guy is ‘flopping a pancake’. This, for me, accentuates the height of the rider. I like it. But that wasn’t your question. To answer your question, yes the B&W works for me.

  5. #5
    Captain of the Ship Photo-John's Avatar
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    Thanks, guys. I often like to include onlookers in bike photos. They can give some perspective and sometimes it's nice to show their reactions.

    After looking at this post again, I think the rider looks to soft. I'm not sure if I screwed up my pre-focus or it's a bit of motion blur. I sure wish it was easier to get shallow depth-of-field with the G2.
    Photo-John

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  6. #6
    Moderator of Critiques/Hearder of Cats mtbbrian's Avatar
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    What do I think?

    I think it is great that you are doing these in black and white, even if it isn't "true black and white".

    I think that this one is little too good for what you are trying to accomplish though.
    Assuming I correctly understood you. I thought you were trying to get a Holga, toy camera feel from this camera? Yes? No? Maybe so?

    It is a good image, I too like the guy in the background, he gives an added dimension to the photo.

    Have I helped? Now I feel like I am babbling...
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  7. #7
    Member brianc's Avatar
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    Yes this one works

    I agree with the rider being a little soft. I would guess that it's your pre-focus. I find it hrd to set the focus on a shot like this where you spot is out in space and before the shot there is nothing there.

    Here's one that I've converted a while back, like you "new" style. in color it's not that good. I converted it b/c of the gray sky, but I the added bonus of isolating the rider from the BG is nice.

    (Side note: I get a run time error when I upload. Line 365, unterminated string)
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails More BW G2 Bike Stuff-toddreborn1s.jpg  

  8. #8
    Captain of the Ship Photo-John's Avatar
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    "True" black and white

    What makes a photo "true" black and white? Does using black and white film somehow make the image better or more important than shooting digital and converting to black and white? I challenge you to tell me how one is better than the other. It's a friendly challenge, mind you - but definitely something worth thinking about.
    Photo-John

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  9. #9
    Moderator of Critiques/Hearder of Cats mtbbrian's Avatar
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    It's really more...

    Quote Originally Posted by Photo-John
    What makes a photo "true" black and white? Does using black and white film somehow make the image better or more important than shooting digital and converting to black and white? I challenge you to tell me how one is better than the other. It's a friendly challenge, mind you - but definitely something worth thinking about.

    John,
    It's not at all which is better than the other, because in the end a black and white print is still just a black and white print.

    To me though, and this is the issue I will always have with digital will be the fact that you can always change your mind.
    Since digital shoots nothing but color images, and all it takes is the desatuartion of the color, to make the image black and white, it just makes it too easy to decide after the images were taken to leave it color or make it black and white.
    With film, you make that decision well before you take that first image, and you do so for a reason, what ever it may be.
    Part of it for me, is that I can still see in black and white, something I am not sure a lot of photographers who haven't shoot a lot of black and white can do. I am certain that you are capable of that too.
    It seems to me that this project you are doing right now, you have made the choice to make black and white images, and it seems that you are going to stick with that decision.

    Brian
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  10. #10
    The Polaroid Member MelissaD's Avatar
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    I rarely comment on action pictures, not because I don't appreciate the work that it takes, but because I really don't know enough to give a contructive critique. HOWEVER, I cannot resist giving you props for this. Really neat image with great perspective! And the b/w works very very well! Fantastic
    Mel

  11. #11
    Captain of the Ship Photo-John's Avatar
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    Good point about being able to change your mind. I have been thinking in black and white since I started working with the G2 like this. But I have also changed my mind :-) It's nice to be able to do that. It's funny, I was talking to Uwe last night about how working with film is different than digital because it makes you approach your subject in a different way. I'm very happy to be shooting all digital. But I do think that some people may get different artistic results with film just because they have to think differently. You don't see the results immediately, it costs more money to handle, and overall there's more of an unknown factor. It has to make you behave differently with your camera.
    Photo-John

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  12. #12
    Captain of the Ship Photo-John's Avatar
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    Well, thank you!

    Wow! It's always interesting to see what moves other people. And posting these black and white bike images has been eye opening - especially your post. And you know what? I think your post has been the most motivating for me. You might be one of my ideal viewers - someone who's absolutely uninterested. If I can draw you in, then I've really done something.

    Thanks a lot!
    Photo-John

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  13. #13
    Moderator of Critiques/Hearder of Cats mtbbrian's Avatar
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    They are different....

    Quote Originally Posted by Photo-John
    Good point about being able to change your mind. I have been thinking in black and white since I started working with the G2 like this. But I have also changed my mind :-) It's nice to be able to do that. It's funny, I was talking to Uwe last night about how working with film is different than digital because it makes you approach your subject in a different way. I'm very happy to be shooting all digital. But I do think that some people may get different artistic results with film just because they have to think differently. You don't see the results immediately, it costs more money to handle, and overall there's more of an unknown factor. It has to make you behave differently with your camera.

    I agree there John, you do have to think differently. And I am still thinking film, even though I can and have thought "digitally".
    I heard something recently on NPR's "Weekend All Thing's Considered", where they were talking about the film vs digital thing.
    They had two professional photographers one an artistic photographer and the a journalist.
    Both embrace and use digital in their professional work. But when it came to their personal projects, they both preffered to use film...
    Something to think about...
    Brian
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  14. #14
    Wisconsin Cheesehead Spike's Avatar
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    Not always

    Quote Originally Posted by mtbbrian
    To me though, and this is the issue I will always have with digital will be the fact that you can always change your mind.
    Since digital shoots nothing but color images, and all it takes is the desatuartion of the color, to make the image black and white, it just makes it too easy to decide after the images were taken to leave it color or make it black and white.
    With film, you make that decision well before you take that first image,
    That's not necessarily true. Many digital cameras let you shoot in B&W mode. So if you really want to have to think in the b&w mindset, set your camera to b&w mode, just like you'd load your camera with b&w film. Then you can't change your mind later.

    Spike

  15. #15
    Member ThoughtfulPirate's Avatar
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    My camera has a black and white mode on it. I like this because you see the image while you are there and can decide whether you think it will work in black and white, when I shoot in black and white, it looks good, when I convert to it, it looks better in color.

  16. #16
    Senior Member racingpinarello's Avatar
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    Thinking in Film...Digital

    Quote Originally Posted by Photo-John
    Good point about being able to change your mind. I have been thinking in black and white since I started working with the G2 like this. But I have also changed my mind :-) It's nice to be able to do that. It's funny, I was talking to Uwe last night about how working with film is different than digital because it makes you approach your subject in a different way. I'm very happy to be shooting all digital. But I do think that some people may get different artistic results with film just because they have to think differently. You don't see the results immediately, it costs more money to handle, and overall there's more of an unknown factor. It has to make you behave differently with your camera.
    I agree 100% with this philosophy. I think when you shoot film you look at the subject or the task at hand differently. It doesn't make either format superior, but themain difference between the two formats, is approach.

    With the digital back, I've noticed that there is much more tonal range which has made some very good b&w images from the digital file. So, to make a quality b&w image doesn't need to be film, but it needs to have range. I think that the G2 and most P&S digitals lack that tonal range to offer crisp b&w images but are still very good.

    Loren."this probably makes no sense" Crannell
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