More B&W Potraits

[Tiffany 13]

So what do you all think? Good/Bad all means accepted.

Thanks!

~ Tiffany

[gahspidy]

Tiffany

I think of your shots as having a very "metropolitan" style if that makes any sense. I like the first pic of the girl with half her head. It's so intentional that it works for me and stirs intrigue. I like the second one as well. The third one I don't find interesting or appealing. The blur does not look natural as well.

I like most of what you have posted , keep it up . . . .

[bingo pajama]

i can't believe more people haven't commented on these. i think they are incredible shots. my favorites are the first two. very, very nice. post more! post more!

[Hightree]

The first two are definately the best. You have developed a terrific eye for these kind of scenes. I also like the directness of the b/w. These are top images of everyday life. Everybody recognises these but it is sooo hard to photograph them in a fashionable manner. But you've done it! Great stuff, keep it coming!
Cheers,
Frank

[Sebastian]

Tiffany,

I am torn here. I see some good ideas, good compositions, but overall the feeling is that something just does not work. These mages are of everyday situations, yet they convey a rather dismal, uncomfortable feeling, one that doesn't corrolate with the subject upon further study of the image. This makes them feel kind of disjointed to me. Maybe if these were part of a story that tells more about the people and their backgrounds, or maybe if the images themselves contained more tell-tale signs of what is going on, then I would feel more satisfied looking at them, but right now I see stories that are started but don't go anywhere...

You clearly saw something here but I'm not sure what exactly that was, the images come short of communicating that, at least to me.

God I hope anything I just said makes sense...

[Old Timer]

The first image is by far the stronger of the three (IMHO). I love the use of B&W in this photo it gives an avante guard feel that reminds me of some of the 70's work that was very popular at that time. Please keep posting and exploring this area.

[Tiffany 13]

First, for the replies. I am used a school of constructed criticism, so the compliments really make me happy : ) And thanks for them. But anyway on a serious note...

gahspidy: The blur is not supposed to look natural. I am trying to use the 4x5 to throw
everything out but the most important aspect of the photo. [In this case being
her face. I'm not trying to be snotty, just explaining the reason behind it.

bingo pajama and Hightree: What can I say?? [Wink wink and big smile]. You're both
really sweet. Thanks! [And you are always welcome to keep
the ompliments coming ; ) ]


Sebastian: Where sall I srart? Why are they uncomfortable and dismal?? And even if they were, why wouldn't those ideas/feelings correlate with the subject matter? Just because the first two are children? And why is dismal bad? Life is not the Brady Bunch. Daily life can be bad, horrible at times. But even so, I do not believe these images convey that at all. And I think you are the first person to ever read that into them. Anyway, these images are part of a larger documentary that give a more detailed view of the innerworkings of the person, so I guess if you saw about 20 of them together it would clear up some of your confusion. But as for "or maybe if the images themselves contained more tell-tale signs of what is going on..." these are not landscapes, commercial photography, or Nan Goldin. They are not supposed to give away everything in one image because if they did, after looking at ten or so photos, the story would get repetitive, old, and uninteresting. The images are supposed to be more open to interpretation than convey one specific notion or idea. I think that if you have ever seen the works of Larry Sultan or Sally Mann you may understand this notion a bit better.


Old Timer: You know what's really bizarre, my old professor said the same exact thing [the 70's remark]. Very very odd coincidence. But anyway...


Thanks all. I really appreciate your time!!

[Nate]

Tiffany-

I'm gonna have to sort of agree with what Sebastian had to say regarding these photos. I agree that a couple have decent compositions, #1 being the strongest. I also agree with his comment about his feeling that a story is being started but is not going anywhere. If these three images are part of a series they really don't go well together. There's no common ground between them which is why I think that Sebastian and I believethat they're the beginning of something but are left wondering as to what that is? As far as your reference to these photos being in the style of Sally Mann, I really have to disagree with that comparison. Sally Mann's photos, especially her Immediate Family series are much different than the photos you posted and don't share any similarities besides the fact you both use 4x5s and black and white film. Her photos were highly posed and didn't really delve into the true personality of her subjects, instead she used her position as a mother to get her children to pose the way she thought fit for the situation and therefore imposed her personality on her subjects. Her work was and still is controversial based on the way she presented her subject matter and if that's what you're trying to do... well I'm not seeing it.

Now don't take this as an insult or personal attack, it's neither. The first image would stand very well on its own. The composition is original and effective and your technique with the 4x5 is very good.
The second image could use more contrast and/or moodier lighting. The lighting is too soft and happy for her expression. The background to the left of the child is also distracting. If you could have moved the table she was sitting on to the right so just the wall was behind her the composition would be much better.
The third image is my least favorite of the bunch. The DOF isolates your subject well, looks like you shot wide open with a 150mm lens for this one which is what created the weird out of focus areas. For those that think the blur is unnaturual, it isn't, if you ever use a 4x5 camera you'll realize this the second you look through the ground glass with your lens wide open.

I hope my explanation is clear enough. Again, everything I said has nothing to do with you personally just your photographs.


-Nate

[Sebastian]

Oh jeez...

"Sebastian: Where shall I start?"

You could start by by remembering that everyone sees things differently.

"Why are they uncomfortable and dismal??"

The style you shot them in, the isolation, the lack of any smiles, the choice of black and white and posing all contribute to make me feel this way.

"And even if they were, why wouldn't those ideas/feelings correlate with the subject matter?"

Because both the child and image look like they're trying to be dismal and sad, but the child's look seems forced, as well as the lack of emotion. The lighting and environment don't seem in sync with what, in my eyes, you were trying to achieve.

"Just because the first two are children?"

No, don't put words in my mouth. I say it because upon further study the subject and environments don't really seem to be in such states, even though at first glance it seems as though you are tryig to portray that.

"And why is dismal bad?"

It isn't, I never said it was. I merely stated that it seems like you're going for that, and that after some more study you were not achieving it.

"Life is not the Brady Bunch. Daily life can be bad, horrible at times."

No ****. Thanks for the eye-opener...

"But even so, I do not believe these images convey that at all. And I think you are the first person to ever read that into them."

That's fine. Isn't that why you posted them in critique? To get different views? I'll say it again, to ME, it seems like you were TRYING for that.

"Anyway, these images are part of a larger documentary that give a more detailed view of the innerworkings of the person, so I guess if you saw about 20 of them together it would clear up some of your confusion."

Yes, I am sure they would, which I stated in my original post.

"But as for "or maybe if the images themselves contained more tell-tale signs of what is going on..." these are not landscapes, commercial photography, or Nan Goldin. They are not supposed to give away everything in one image because if they did, after looking at ten or so photos, the story would get repetitive, old, and uninteresting."

Well, a photo story or essay is trying to convey something as a whole, and the individual pieces don't always work when seperated form the whole. Like I said, they might work as part of something bigger, but alone they say very little. If they are a part of something bigger, then yes, they don't need to tell more with each image, but they COULD. What's the point of even asking for critique of a small portion of a whole story? I could understand if some images really stood on their own, but for them to do that they would need to tell more, and you already pointed to the fact that you didn't want that because they are parts of a larger whole. You are shortchangin us and yourself, we're not getting it all, and can't critique it as well as we could, and you are getting critiques that don't really do much for the whole story.

"I think that if you have ever seen the works of Larry Sultan or Sally Mann you may understand this notion a bit better."

I'm sure I have seen them. I don't pay attention to names though, it just really doesn't matter to m who shot what as long as I get something out of it.

When you post on critique be ready for all sort of viewpoints. I will not hold back, I will tell you what I feel or don't feel. My view is a bit unconventional, so if you don't want me to respond to your posts let me know and I will honor that request.

[paulnj]

So what do you all think? Good/Bad all means accepted.

Thanks!

~ Tiffany

cropped at bridge of nose....

cropped top of girls head and she looks like she was posed with marbles in her mouth. lighting is too uneven

last needs more DOF or more precise focus

mind you these are just my observations... good or bad will vary viewer to viewer

[megan]

The first one is wonderful. The middle one is good. The third one is sweet, but the elbow IMHO is a little *too* blurred and gets in the way of the portrait.

Megan

[Tiffany 13]

Ok just a few things really quick...

Nate: And likewise, this is NOT a personal attack.....I mentioned Sally Mann as a reference point, not as a comparison point. I knew some people might take it as that, but I would never put myself in the same league as her. And no I am not trying to be anything she is or have my work seen similar to hers, but she has and has spent many years photographing her family. And I completely disagree on your view of her work. Many of the photos in Immediate Family are truly about the personalities of her children and their relationships in the family [ie: "The Two Virginians #1 or #4", or "Goujus"]. "Her photos were highly posed and didn't really delve into the true personality of her subjects, instead she used her position as a mother to get her children to pose the way she thought fit for the situation and therefore imposed her personality on her subjects." Yes and no. Yes she as does this in many of her photographs ["The last time Emmet Modeled Nude"] but many of her photos are poses of things that she has just seen or is seeing. You know what I mean? Sorry if I'm not being clear right now.

Sebastion: OK first of all, can you chill out? My comments were NOT a personal attack on you, and when I leave question marks, it is becuase it is a question.
"Just because the first two are children?"

No, don't put words in my mouth. "

Actually it was a question. Seriously. I am trying to work things out here and understand what you were saying... therefore the question marks!


"But even so, I do not believe these images convey that at all. And I think you are the first person to ever read that into them.
That's fine. Isn't that why you posted them in critique? To get different views? I'll say it again, to ME, it seems like you were TRYING for that."

Ok fine! It was a goddam observation! In thought it was interesting becuase no one had EVER said that about them before.


"When you post on critique be ready for all sort of viewpoints. I will not hold back, I will tell you what I feel or don't feel. My view is a bit unconventional, so if you don't want me to respond to your posts let me know and I will honor that request."

I fully appreciate critism becuase it is the only thing I can lean from. I have never like constant positive reinforcement that much becuase in the end it doesn't really get you any further than you have come. And I do not believe that you should hold back at all. But the next time I respond to your post [with obvious questions becuase some of the things are unclear to me] you need to step back a bit and realize that I am not trying to attack you. Your second post seems bitter. And while I understand that things are not always communicated well through posts, you really need to leave **** remarks like:

"Where shall I start?"

You could start by by remembering that everyone sees things differently."


somewhere else. When I said "Where shall I start" I mean [and maybe you should have realized his from the question marks] that I had a lot of questions for you so I can understand yo better.

[Sebastian]

Tiffany,

I got something COMPLETELY different out of your post. Typically I try to be more dipomatic, today I just wasn't, I apologize.

If you wish to talk about it any more, feel free to send me a private message.

As for your images, I hope that even though I didn't say it in a nice way, that I clarified some of my viewpoints.

[bingo pajama]

you know, sometimes, it amazes me how quickly a civil conversation can erode into base name-calling and finger pointing due simply to a communication breakdown. it doesn't happen on this site nearly as often as others (cause we're all really cool, right?), but i HAVE seen it happen on occasion...

that said, what REALLY amazes me even more is how some folks can start down that path, figure out where they're headed, and have the balls or the sense to stop, admit that they themselves are responsible for much of the confusion, and back out as tactfully as possible. not only do these folks save face, but imho, have actually climbed a couple of rungs on my ladder of respectability...

kudos to seb. and to tiffany. and to anyone else who has the sense of humor to laugh at themselves. i wish i could more often!

[Lava Lamp]

Good, differnent, real. The second one reminds me of Sally Mann, but transplanted to NY. The third one doesn't do much for me, it's pedestrian compared to the others.

[gahspidy]

you know, sometimes, it amazes me how quickly a civil conversation can erode into base name-calling and finger pointing due simply to a communication breakdown. it doesn't happen on this site nearly as often as others (cause we're all really cool, right?), but i HAVE seen it happen on occasion...

that said, what REALLY amazes me even more is how some folks can start down that path, figure out where they're headed, and have the balls or the sense to stop, admit that they themselves are responsible for much of the confusion, and back out as tactfully as possible. not only do these folks save face, but imho, have actually climbed a couple of rungs on my ladder of respectability...

kudos to seb. and to tiffany. and to anyone else who has the sense of humor to laugh at themselves. i wish i could more often!

I agree with you Bingo. I've seen many sites where this would have gotten way ugly and wind up pulling others in to join sides and pretty much begin to dominate the forum.
Nice to be amongst people of good caliber

[Cowgirl]

So what do you all think? Good/Bad all means accepted.

Thanks!

~ Tiffany

I like #1 - it is good.

#2 is more difficult for me. I love the girls eyes. So meaningful. But the rest of the image, the keys, the tablecloth?, the arm positioning, doesn't do much for me. But I do like the girls demanding gaze.

#3 The first thing that I thought of when I saw this was a worried mother, who has worried/cried herself to sleep, because her son/daughter is fighting in Iraq. Funny how an image can give me these ideas! The blurring bothers me a lttle too.

Overall, like Seb, see a bit of saddness in #2 & #3. --Just my 2 cents worth.--

Kathy

[Tiffany 13]

Yeah I'm glad I took my Happy Pill before responding becuase I was ready to take it outside. Ok I'm really just kidding about that. Anyway... Thanks for the replies. They are really helping me to see things and bring things to my attention that even the people who normally crit my work don't even notice or read in to them.

Oh yeah...