the devil's hands

[MarcusK]

What else could i say? almost nothing!

The PP work is admirable, congrats...:thumbsup:

The lighting on the hands has been suggested as alternative so yeah I'd like to see that once the reshoot is complete...

As for the framing, well i refrained to post a comment (I could have been the first ) since i could not make up my mind... However, in the end, this is how i see it:

Considering that it was shot symmertrical, then i believe you improved it with your crop... If you intended it with this crop and shot it as such, then hey...your choice.... but at the end, i would agree with the point being made, that this could have been much better with a different crop... not saying symmetrical...i dislike the symmetry specially in such images.... Now, it is possible that a better version is in your other shots....but the point remains, the angle is great, and a different crop would have given even more power to an already powerful concept!

As for not changing if you don't agree, I completely agree and applaud your refusal to "sell out", but don't forget that this also works the other way around... You don't have to change for anyone, doesn't mean the comment is wrong no need to get so defensive (I am not fueling anything here, just giving my opinion)

Great images.... Looking forward to the rest!
Marc

[Overbeyond]

Have to say that I don't like this. But I also have to say it is extremely creative and bears evidence of someone very comfortable with their skills and on top of their game..
Very well done indeed.
Tom

[Didache]

"what is most important to me is liking the outcome. If someone suggest a crop or edit I don't like, I won't do it"


This really deserves a thread all on its own. It is a delicate balance between satisfying your own vision and being open to advice on principles. I find myself in this dilemma quite a lot as I am involved in the competitive club scene - I find myself sometimes producing images I know will please judges, instead of what pleases me. On the other hand, a lot of the judges are very accomplished people whose advice is ignored at my peril.

Only the photographer can decide.

Personally, and for the record, I prefer it the way you did it. But, then again, I'm not a judge

Mike

[livin4lax09]

I had a little response written out for this before PR decided to reject my post and delete what I had written...

Marcus: Thank you very much for your honest response, and I will say that I didn't mean it as hostile as it read. I am not one to tell someone that their view on a part of the photo is wrong, because art is entirely subjective, I would be incorrect to say their view is not right, because it's what they think would look good. The fact that mine differs just means that I view it in a different way and the most visually appealing way, for me, is the way that I have presented it. But a differing opinion is always a good thing, I'm just saying I won't change it just because someone likes it a different way if I have already played around with it and found the most visually appealing approach as the way I have presented it.

Overbeyond: I appreciate your honest comment. A lot. I actually really like that you don't like it. A lot of the time, these are my favorite types of images, the ones that provoke many different emotions in different people. I feel it represents the true subjectivity and emotion that art is supposed to be. And thanks for the compliments.

Mike: I very much agree, and every time I respond I think "this could be another thread". As far as my view goes, if you are shooting for someone else, you strive to make them happy (advertisements and the sort, so you producing club images for other people is to be expected). If you are doing a project that is a product of your own imagination and ideas, then you do whatever you want to make that image a top-tier photo in your mind. One of the most used phrases I hear on photo forums always asks "are you happy with the images? If you are, then that's what important." I like creating art from my own mind and heart then viewing the reactions to it.

[trog100]

other peoples opinions matter a great deal.. we are herd animals and if i am the only one that likes something i do i modify my own views somewhat to accomodate them.. he he

sometimes the only way we can judge our own values is thru the eyes of others..

my opinion is i dont like the image but i think its very well done..

trog

[Ronnoco]

good thing I'm not shooting for galleries then, huh?

Yup, or for large publications, books, juried competitions etc. I can just
picture one woman I work with who has a masters in art, saying with reference to that kind of picture. "Interesting, but reshoot and frame it properly.".

Ronnoco

[Ronnoco]

other peoples opinions matter a great deal.. we are herd animals and if i am the only one that likes something i do i modify my own views somewhat to accomodate them.. he he

sometimes the only way we can judge our own values is thru the eyes of others..

my opinion is i dont like the image but i think its very well done..

trog

No one, EVER even suggested that I was a herd animal. As a matter of fact, quite the contrary. On the other hand, when it comes to photography, the value of other people's views are based on whether those views are personal (based on likes or dislikes) or professional (based on a keen eye and experience as a photographer).

As far as the image is concerned, my likes and dislikes are irrelevant. What was "very well done", trog, is balanced by what was poorly done.

That image is the equivalent of having a great photo of a bride and groom and splitting the bride in half by the frame. Creative maybe but distracting and therefore weak.

Ronnoco

[Mr Yuck]

sorry, but i gotta say this.

moo!

I cant picture any better composition than what you've got there.

[Ronnoco]

EDIT: But let this not leave the impression that I do not accept ideas for how to make improvements. If this came across as me being unwilling to change, this is not what i intended it as. I simply am unwilling to change for others while ignoring my own personal opinion, commonly referred to as "selling out." That said, I still love to hear people's suggestions for improvement, because many times another set of eyes will notice something that can be improved upon that the original photographer missed or simply didn't think of.

Gee, living4lax09, you characterize things much differently when you are doing the critiquing of someone else's work. I guess it depends on which side of the critiquing you are on, eh?

Ronnoco

[gahspidy]

This can go around in circles. . . ..c'mon, give it a rest.
Great thread . . .lets move on.

[livin4lax09]

good idea Gary, I second the notion.