not your typical e-510 noise problem thread...

[xwingkiller]

i was out shooting some softball games for fun this last weekend. as im going through my files, i noticed that there seems to be a lot of noise even though im shooting at iso100 and mostly at 1/800 sec. i dont know if it is a ton of noise or not, but to me it seems like it is. i am new to dslr though so im not too sure. the worst parts seem to be on people's skin...arms, legs, faces...

here's a couple of examples of what im seing. this is 100% crop. overall it wasnt a big deal because i pretty much used everything around 1024x768 size for putting on the internet.
i was just wondering though if these pictures should be useable at 100% size or if the higher resolution is really just to make it so your 50% crop would be a larger useable image than a lower resolution sensor.

[Photo-John]

Well, the images are a bit dark, which shows noise better. Well-exposed images have less visible noise. Makes it tough for those of us who like to shoot dark to hold the highlights and then adjust in post-processing.

Viewing your images at 100% is also not the best way to judge noise. As you said, you usually resize to 1024x768 to post in the Web. So yeahm you can see noise best at 100%. But 100% on the computer isn't the real world. Internet-sized images or prints are the real world. So I wouldn't worry about it. Expose a little lighter and don't look so closely

Oh yeah - if these are 100%, the noise looks fine to me. There's nothing to worry about.

[xwingkiller]

thanks photo-john.
from reading wrotniak's tips on the e-510 he suggests to always have the exposure compensation set to -.7. do you think this is something i should just stop using as a starting point?

[Photo-John]

thanks photo-john.
from reading wrotniak's tips on the e-510 he suggests to always have the exposure compensation set to -.7. do you think this is something i should just stop using as a starting point?

Setting exposure compensation to underexpose is a good strategy if you're worried about blowing out highlights. I shoot all manual exposure and use the histogram to judge each exposure, so I never use exposure compensation. I do shoot a bit dark to hold highlight detail, though. And the price you pay for that is increased noise - especially if you then adjust the shadows in post-processing. I suggest exposing for the image and not generalizing too much. The two image details you've posted here are too dark. Sure, you held the highlight details. But those particular highlight details don't really add much to the image. In this case, I'd prefer to see the whole thing lighter. Of course, you could lighten the whole image after the fact. But again, you'd be increasing noise - and unnecessarily. So why don't you try shooting with the exposure compensation at 0 or -0.3 and see if you're happy with the results. I don't think it's going to hurt anything to try.

[Sushigaijin]

first, ignore wrotniak. The E510 exposes perfectly well at 0 EV. The wrotniak suggestion is a safeguard for highlights, but it is better to learn how to preserve highlights without relying on the camera to cheat. Try shooting in RAW, it seems like RAW doesn't have the same limited highlight range that jpg has. In any case, it is better to learn what type of scene will result in blown highlights and correct accordingly rather than just underexposing everything. The spot metering option is very useful for setting an exposure to protect highlights.

Second, I don't see ANY noise in your photos. They do look underexposed, which makes them a bit short on contrast and dynamic range - both things which make photos look better. They also MIGHT be a little soft, maybe from subject movement, but at 100% it's really hard to say. They certainly have a lot of good detail, and would crisp up with a bit of smart sharpen.

[Greg McCary]

I agree with Erik on all points.I never had an issue with the 510 and exposure and shooting in RAW will help a lot. Or at best the highest quality Jpeg. But I always had better luck at 200 ISO. I have no proff but it seemed to me there was slightly less noise at 200 than 100. Also leave the IS off unless needed. The only time noise was ever an issue with me was when I shot 400 iso or on longer exposures. Is your NR on? But the pictures here look they were cropped into?. What Jpeg setting did you shoot these at?

[xwingkiller]

they were shot raw, and for these examples i just pulled them from LR with no adjustments into ps and took a 100% crop section small enough to be able to post on here and saved them for the web at 100% jpg quality.

i have NR turned off and IS on. the main problem was when i would do some sharpening, it would really mess up peoples faces because of the noise.

i will deffinitly try everything you guys have suggested. thanks everyone.

[dumpy]

Also leave the IS off unless needed.

Does IS lead to noise? How? I leave mine on all the time, should I shut it off when not needed (most of the time)?

[Photo-John]

I have no proff but it seemed to me there was slightly less noise at 200 than 100. Also leave the IS off unless needed.

I don't think it's possible for there to be less noise at ISO 200 than 100. That just goes against the laws of physics - unless Olympus is doing something weird with noise reduction. I also don't recall the studio tests showing less noise at ISO 200.

I would also leave the IS on all the time. The only exception is if you're using a tripod. IS shouldn't have any effect on noise. The only problem it might cause is using up your batteries a little faster. But I never noticed any power issues with the camera, either. So leaving IS on all the time just to ensure sharpness seems like the best strategy to me. That's what I do, anyway.

[Greg McCary]

I don't think it's possible for there to be less noise at ISO 200 than 100. That just goes against the laws of physics - unless Olympus is doing something weird with noise reduction. I also don't recall the studio tests showing less noise at ISO 200.

I would also leave the IS on all the time. The only exception is if you're using a tripod. IS shouldn't have any effect on noise. The only problem it might cause is using up your batteries a little faster. But I never noticed any power issues with the camera, either. So leaving IS on all the time just to ensure sharpness seems like the best strategy to me. That's what I do, anyway.

Thanks John, I guess maybe it was just me missing exposure or something. My 510 was a bit strange when it came to the noise levels. I would notice it more sometimes and less on others. I never really got a handle on it. Maybe it was just the different enviroments I shot?

[California L33]

I don't think you've got an objectionable amount of noise there. I would use fill flash for sunny day portraits, though. If it bothers you, there are some really good noise filter plug ins- Neat Image is one.

[Sushigaijin]

If sharpening is giving you noise on the people's faces, you should adjust your sharpening method.

For people shots without ultra fine detail (like these) I would just barely sharpen at a high radius, smart sharpen. Maybe 18 or 20% at 5 or 6 pixels. This really just adjusts the contrast in the faces, and doesn't do much sharpening at all.

If I have a lot of fine detail (eyebrows, pores, lashes, wrinkles etc.) I will also sharpen a little at a small radius. Perhaps 30% at 1.5 or 2 pixels, after first sharpening as above. This two step sharpening seems to work really well with the E510. your mileage may vary.

[Kajuah]

i have NR turned off and IS on. the main problem was when i would do some sharpening, it would really mess up peoples faces because of the noise.

There's your problem - turn NR to strong or "on."

If you zoom in you can see the noise, and while it's not an exceptional amount, there shouldn't be that level of noise in broad daylight especially at iso 200 and under.

[Sushigaijin]

There's your problem - turn NR to strong or "on."

If you zoom in you can see the noise, and while it's not an exceptional amount, there shouldn't be that level of noise in broad daylight especially at iso 200 and under.

I have to respectfully disagree here. The built in NR in the e510 SUCKS, and should always be turned off. Way better to deal with noise (at ISO800 and above) in post processing. ISO400, 200, and 100 don't typically have enough noise to worry about at the print level, although there is visible noise at 100% at ISO400. The Noise filter/noise reduction smear detail and soften output at an unacceptable level. Thank god they have an option to turn it off!!

[Kajuah]

It may suck but it will get rid of noise.. if you want to more detail...well you have to either choose smoothness or sharpness, or less noise with NR or more noise and more "detail"

Noise ninja is the best program out there for dealing with noise in post processing, but if you cannot afford it then sometimes it's out of the question and you have to use whatever you have. A real 'ghetto' way to deal with noise is to just respectively blur certain parts of the scene...though that looks like crap .. i've seen some very cheapo wedding photographers actually get away with this, however.

Generally olympus does suck for noise, though, it's an accepted fact but it shouldn't suck THAT much at 100 iso