Stop That Spanking!

[mwfanelli2]

Spanking to be made illegal in Massachusetts?

http://www.bostonherald.com/news/reg...icleid=1047241

Some Christian groups are claiming doom and gloom if they can't beat their children: "This bill equates loving, corrective discipline with hateful, harmful abuse"

http://www.christiannewswire.com/news/216304881.html

From where I sit (and I can):

Spanking teaches a child that if you get frustrated, resorting to violence is OK.

I was spanked and paddled as a child. It didn't teach me anything other than many adults can't control their temper and become violent. Every time it happened, I lost more and more respect for these people.

If someone decides to discipline me via a spanking (unrequested for those of you... oh, never mind), that's assault and can lead to arrest. If it's done to someone under 18, it's "loving care". Huh?

None of my kids were ever beaten, sorry, "spanked", and turned out fine. Same with my nephews.

Tell me whether y'all think that violence on a child is a good or a bad thing. Not that I have any strong opinions about the matter... :-)

[adina]

Good God.

Since when is a a quick swat a horrible beating. There is a huge difference between beating a child, and spanking them. Most reasonable people who spank their children are not beating them.

For the record, my kids were rarely spanked. Why? Because it didn't do anything. They don't learn from it, and it was a pointless exercise, and we chose not to do it. Just like I choose not to try and reason with them when they are throwing a tantrum. They haven't been spanked in years, and probably won't be in the future. We've found other methods of disipline work better for us.

I do know lots of people who were spanked as children and who spank their children, and they all turned out fine as well.

Do I think you should spank someone because you are angry and frustrated? No, because there is the possibliity for things to get out of hand, emotions are high.

Is spanking "violence on a child" or "beating" them? Normally, no. There are always exceptions to the rules.

Frankly, I'm an adult, and am capable of making reasonable decisions regarding how I raise my kid.

[SmartWombat]

Frankly, I'm an adult, and am capable of making reasonable decisions regarding how I raise my kid.

Unfortunately a lot of parents have only passed the physical, and aren't capable or adult in behaviour.

[JETA]

For me and my family it's a no go. I detest spankings. My Dad was fond of hitting until it left marks. Even to this day when he raises his voice I cringe. I've used him as a reverse parenting model.

I cannot think of one instance in my kids lives that inflicting physical pain would have worked better the discipline. Sure, hitting them would have given me some immediate gratification, but it would have done nothing positive for them. It did nothing positive for me being hit other then being scared spitless of my Dad. I learned he was big, therefore hurt me. That's the last mark I want to leave on my childrens lives.

The spanking debate is probably bigger then the abortion debate on the web. Scary topic and you won't find me debating it. Just stating what works for me and spanking doesn't.

[walterick]

Wait, this doesn't apply to adults does it?!

Ok, so from a psychological perspective all the evidence indicates that the best way to mold behavior is rewarding good behavior rather than punishing bad behavior. To my knowledge this has been demonstrated with numerous clinical trials with everything from teaching kids to getting rats to push a button. So parenting should consist primarily of rewarding the behavior they want to see in their child.

However, I know that kids can be unruly and sometimes the only way to quickly bring them back into line is a swift shot on the rear. Most parents are reasonable and would not make it a violent beating but sometimes a swat does seem the fastest way to bring them into line.

[mwfanelli2]

FWIW, to the group:

I do NOT support a new law about this. I DO support consequences for actions taken with free will. Assault is assault and should be taken as such.

It really gets back to what to a comment I made above. I can get unruly at times, spank me and you'd not be surprised to have cops handcuffing you and hauling you away. Hitting a child should not be a free pass.

[oldfireguy]

I didn't spank any of my four kids but my concern with all this is where does it stop?

I believe parents who smoke around their children are causing much more health and long term problems than a swat on the butt. People who smoke around their kids in the home or a vehicle should be charged with abuse and the children removed from the homes and the parents jailed. We know without a doubt that second hand smoke is a killer, leads to asthma, and a host to other health problems in children and adults. I wonder why the Senators aren't pushing a bill to outlaw tobacco products.

I believe parents who allow their children to become overweight and sit on their butts all day long are causing more long term health problems to their children than a swat on the butt. We know this leads to early heart disease and diabetes. So why is the government not doing something about it?

And then there are parents who are drinking alcohol around their kids, watching violent television, feeding them fast food, or swearing around them. Come on, let's pass some more bills in the Senate.

Just seems like there is a lot more important stuff that affects kids besides a parent swatting their butt.

[RP Racing]

I didn't spank any of my four kids but my concern with all this is where does it stop?

I believe parents who smoke around their children are causing much more health and long term problems than a swat on the butt. People who smoke around their kids in the home or a vehicle should be charged with abuse and the children removed from the homes and the parents jailed. We know without a doubt that second hand smoke is a killer, leads to asthma, and a host to other health problems in children and adults. I wonder why the Senators aren't pushing a bill to outlaw tobacco products.

I believe parents who allow their children to become overweight and sit on their butts all day long are causing more long term health problems to their children than a swat on the butt. We know this leads to early heart disease and diabetes. So why is the government not doing something about it?

And then there are parents who are drinking alcohol around their kids, watching violent television, feeding them fast food, or swearing around them. Come on, let's pass some more bills in the Senate.

Just seems like there is a lot more important stuff that affects kids besides a parent swatting their butt.

Already happening. Pretty sure Commiefornia already made it illegal to smoke in your own car if a child is present. Couple near here got hit with child abuse charges after giving their kid a "time out". Kids need a good old fashion smack in the back of the head from a parent once in a while. If I told my mother when I was 13-14 "F You Bitch" in a crowded store like that brat I seen last week, I would had been knocked out cold. Kids dont see any reprecussions to their actions anymore. They know how to play the system to get whatever the hell they want. "Touch me and I'll have you arrested" garbage.

Some people really need to go out in the REAL WORLD and see that their "darling precious little angel" isnt so "darling". Yeah your "never do anything wrong" kid wouldnt smash car windows even though WE HAVE HIM ON VIDEO doing it. Or my favorite, lets not keep score at (insert sport played) because he/she may develop a lack of self esteem if they lose. 4-5 yr olds sports is one thing, but at 12 they should had learned by then that not everyone wins. I should find that story where some guys mother is SUING a business because her 21 yr old son didnt get the job he applied for there and his feelings were crushed.

[adina]

Ahh Rob, we must shop at the same stores....

You're in southern WI? Where at? Are you coming to Chicago on the 15th?

[schrackman]

Spanking teaches a child that if you get frustrated, resorting to violence is OK.

Or, it teaches a child that there are sometimes severe and swift consequences for bad conduct, a lesson that just may serve them well at some later point in life when they contemplate doing something really stupid, dangerous, or could possibly result in harming an innocent person.

I was spanked and paddled as a child. It didn't teach me anything other than many adults can't control their temper and become violent. Every time it happened, I lost more and more respect for these people

Well, there will always be some children upon whom no amount or type of discipline will ever be effective, simply because those children choose to be what people used to call incorrigible.

We don't hear that word anymore, but it would certainly suit many children (and even adults) today.

[RP Racing]

Ahh Rob, we must shop at the same stores....

You're in southern WI? Where at? Are you coming to Chicago on the 15th?

South of Madison in a hell called Janesville. Usually up in Madison though when I need something since Janesville doesnt have much for anything here. No chicago. Have another party that day in Fort Atkinson.

[mwfanelli2]

Or, it teaches a child that there are sometimes severe and swift consequences for bad conduct, a lesson that just may serve them well at some later point in life when they contemplate doing something really stupid, dangerous, or could possibly result in harming an innocent person.

Or that they are free to administer violence to get the action they want at some later point in life. I wonder how bullies are made? Once again, the elephant in the room that everyone wants to ignore is: if its OK to hit a child, why is it a criminal act to hit me? What if I am going to do something dangerous, stupid, or might hurt someone? That is so broad and encompassing that it could include every extreme.

Well, there will always be some children upon whom no amount or type of discipline will ever be effective, simply because those children choose to be what people used to call incorrigible.

I am hardly "incorrigible"! I was and still am intelligent. I knew then, as I know now, that a bigger person hitting a smaller person out of frustration shows a distinct lack of control, a predilection towards violence, poor judgment, and exhibits the worst that every human possesses. Respect is earned, not attained by beating on someone.

We don't hear that word anymore, but it would certainly suit many children (and even adults) today.

The true phrase we don't hear anymore is "personal responsibility." Hit me, go to jail. Hit a child, go to jail. Oops, there's that elephant again!

Massachusettes has the right idea but is going about it the wrong way. Assault is assault, use existing laws evenly, we don't need new ones.

[RP Racing]

Funny. Most bullies I deal with come from homes where the parents never spank. Theres also a BIG difference between corporal punishment and assault.

[mn shutterbug]

IMO, there is a big difference between spanking a child to discipline, and beating a child out of anger. Ever heard the saying "spare the rod, and spoil the child"? I see nothing wrong with a swat across the backside to the point of stinging a little. It will get their attention and they may think twice before replicating the actions that brought on the smack. However, I don't think it should be severe enough to cause welts or make it tough for the child to sit down for the whole day. At that point, it can get to the point of abuse. It seems like less and less parents discipline their children anymore, and it shows. Idle threats do nothing.

[adina]

See, and the bullies I'm seeing at school and at extra curricular activies are the ones who don't get ANY disciple, or the parents who are waiting for someone else to do it.

Is spanking the best form of disciplne? No, not imo. But is it better than no discipline? Yes. And I'm refering to spanking, not beating, which to me are two different things. If I hauled off and punched a child, or an adult, yes, that is abuse, and should be treated as such.

[mwfanelli2]

Absolutely amazing. There seems to be binary thinking here: no discipline or violence. You know, there is a wide range of options other than those two.

FWIW, child bullies most often come from dysfunctional families where abuse, mental and physical, are common. My current girlfriend is a shrink who works with problem kids all the time.

[oldfireguy]

Tell me whether y'all think that violence on a child is a good or a bad thing. Not that I have any strong opinions about the matter... :-)

I love your choice of words. It's like asking the question, "Hey, are you still beating your wife"?

You really are not interested in what others think, you are looking for an argument. Your answers are peppered with beat, hit, violence, frustration, lack of control all pointed towards the people who think corporal punishment is OK. I can't believe anyone condones abusive behavior towards a child and how a swat on the butt is being construed as that is beyond me.

I want to see the articles that show Christians are supporting child abuse and that beating children is OK. I'm not getting that in link you posted. This is what I found, "Appropriate spanking is not 'beating' or 'abusing' a child, which is a ridiculous and offensive comparison," continued Thomasson. "When appropriate spanking is lovingly administered, it greatly helps a disobedient youngster to become a well-adjusted adult who respects authority."

If you don't spank then so be it but come on, please don't treat those who do as child abusers, there is a major difference and you know that.

[mn shutterbug]

Absolutely amazing. There seems to be binary thinking here: no discipline or violence. You know, there is a wide range of options other than those two.

You actually consider spanking, violence?

[adina]

Yes, there are a million options in between. As a parent, you find which one works best for your child. Do I spank? No, it doesn't work on my kids. Are they disciplined? Yup.

But the point being discussed is spanking, which, again, to me, is not violence on a child.

[AmberC]

Some children will respond to a spanking, some will not. I will use a spanking as a LAST resort and only for what I consider to be a serious offence. There have been times though, with my older daughter, that she wouldn't respond to ANYTHING until I gave her a good swat on the tushie.

A spanking should be one to three quick swats on the butt. No where else and no more or I would consider it abuse.

I NEVER spank out of anger. If my child does something and I am angry about it, I send them to their room for a time out (so *I* can calm down) before dishing out a punishment. I would never want to hit my child out of anger. If I spank them, it needs to be to teach them, not because I'm angry.

My children are rarely spanked. Time outs work well for them. There also comes a time when spankings should be stopped, as they get older. I still remember the last time that I was spanked. I was 9 and it was for a bad report card... the spanking did nothing but me.

I can say though, that there were some times when I would much rather have just been spanked than the punishment that I did have. Like the time when I was 17 and I pissed my mom off and she did not say one word to me for a week unless she absolutely had to. Just knowing that she was so upset with me that she couldn't even speak to me... that was 100 times worse than a spanking!!!!! (I got her to talk to me after a week by writing her a letter lol, then we talked about the issue)

Amber

[Jaedon]

Or that they are free to administer violence to get the action they want at some later point in life. I wonder how bullies are made? Once again, the elephant in the room that everyone wants to ignore is: if its OK to hit a child, why is it a criminal act to hit me? What if I am going to do something dangerous, stupid, or might hurt someone? That is so broad and encompassing that it could include every extreme.

It is illegal because you are old enough now to know better and the person hitting you would most likely not be your parent.

I am hardly "incorrigible"! I was and still am intelligent. I knew then, as I know now, that a bigger person hitting a smaller person out of frustration shows a distinct lack of control, a predilection towards violence, poor judgment, and exhibits the worst that every human possesses. Respect is earned, not attained by beating on someone.

Correct. Respect needs to be earned. And if my parents had not spanked me for some of the stunts I pulled when I was a kid I am sure I would have lost respect for them right then and there. Some children simply do not respond to time outs / corner sitting / warning them of consequences / ETC. Hitting out of frustration is simply wrong. I have and will continue to spank my children if it reaches the point where they deserve it... but it isn't like it is a daily thing and it is NEVER done out of frustration or anger.

The true phrase we don't hear anymore is "personal responsibility." Hit me, go to jail. Hit a child, go to jail. Oops, there's that elephant again!

Massachusettes has the right idea but is going about it the wrong way. Assault is assault, use existing laws evenly, we don't need new ones.

Spank a child and go to jail?? No. Hit a child and go to jail agreed. There's a difference. A spank (as Amber said earlier) should consist of a few smacks on the butt, leave no marks, and ONLY ever be done with an open hand.... not with whatever happens to be handy at that moment. A spank is not assault when it is properly handled. It is NOT properly handled when it is done in anger or out of frustration.

I have seen the results of kids that needed a spanking or some stricter form of discipline that did not get it when required and most of those kids are either in Jail or on the way there. I have also seen the results of a kid who did not need to be spanked but was beaten by their parents "just in case" they had done something that they did not get caught for. Most of those kids are in therapy or in jail getting therapy.

My point is that spanking may not always be required, but when done properly as a last resort by a loving parent who recognizes when that point has been reached, it is a useful tool that a parent should have at their disposal. Let me tell you , when my son starts heading down the course of doing something that my end up requiring a spanking, a warning is usually more than sufficient as he knows I am more than capable of dishing one out when required.

[schrackman]

Or that they are free to administer violence to get the action they want at some later point in life. I wonder how bullies are made?

That's a slippery slope, my friend. The same kind of logic can be used to imply that imprisonment makes a criminal more criminal. But the fact of the matter is it's not the punishment or discipline that makes a person worse, it's how a person chooses to respond to that punishment or discipline that makes him what he is.

[qoute]Once again, the elephant in the room that everyone wants to ignore is: if its OK to hit a child, why is it a criminal act to hit me?

It's not being ignored, it's that you ignore the explanations given you. Spanking is intended to be punitive and corrective and is therefore tolerated, while hitting you would be malicious intent and should therefore not be tolerated.

What if I am going to do something dangerous, stupid, or might hurt someone? That is so broad and encompassing that it could include every extreme.

I'll let you use your imagination on this one.

I am hardly "incorrigible"! I was and still am intelligent.

I didn't say you were incorrigible. Besides, being incorrigible has nothing to do with lacking intelligence; rather, it simply means one is bad beyond reform or impervious to punishment. That is more befitting a rebel and a fool, not an idiot.

I knew then, as I know now, that a bigger person hitting a smaller person out of frustration shows a distinct lack of control, a predilection towards violence, poor judgment, and exhibits the worst that every human possesses. Respect is earned, not attained by beating on someone.

So let me get this straight...you had the sense to discern all this as a child, but lacked the sense to choose behavior that would have avoided your getting spanked?

The true phrase we don't hear anymore is "personal responsibility." Hit me, go to jail. Hit a child, go to jail. Oops, there's that elephant again!

And where was your personal responsibility? Rather than choose behavior that would have kept you from getting spanked, you instead chose to rebel and suffered the consequences. And now you complain about the discipline that was meted out to you?

You know, I now agree with you...spanking didn't teach you anything. Not that it couldn't have taught you anything, it's just that you weren't willing to receive the lesson. Some kids are just that way, though.

One last thing...how do you suppose it is that I've now come to appreciate my parents' harsh discipline for my behavior while you've come to despise yours?

[JETA]

Funny. Most bullies I deal with come from homes where the parents never spank. Theres also a BIG difference between corporal punishment and assault.

My response isn't to this quote personally. It just made me brain start moving.....

The two biggest bullies I know are smacked upside the head as often as I hug my kids. It works both ways and I don't think spanking or not spanking creates bullies. The two boys I speak of are never given a natural consequence and their bad behaviors are ignored. Not only are they ignored but the parents hit and bully them for being bullies. They are never held accountable for what they do and the Mom's line of thinking is there are worse kids out there. So what is that teaching?

Personal responsibility came up. Those are the two words that are the most important. Nobody in the above mentioned family EVER takes responsibility for their behaviors and actions. Are we teaching our kids about personal responsibility? My kids know if they are big enough to do something wrong they will own it. Period. We are always talking about personal responsibility. It's the mantra here. One particular parent that bugs the ever living h#ll out of me is one who thinks their child can do no wrong. They are kids and going to act like such. KIDS WILL ACT THEIR AGE. It's my job to help them along in their journey of growing up and letting them know when they are doing wrong.

The best way they learn is by example. My kids are going to mimic my behaviors. The good ones and the bad. The best way for me to parent is to be the best person I can be.

My kids are given boundaries where they can freely move. If they go outside those boundaries we reel them. The more responsible they get the bigger the boundaries.

My oldest are 19 & 18. They'd never yell, sass or are disrespectful to me. If they are going there it just takes one look from me and they stop. If the truth be told and you can ask them for yourselves.... They adore me. lol

Personally, I would love to spank out of anger and if I'm calm I never could. So I choose not to spank. My older two were swatted a few times. It never did a thing other then make me physically sick. It isn't in my personality to be calm and then call the kids over so I can hit them. That would never work for me. Unless I want my head in the toilet all day.

[JETA]

Some people really need to go out in the REAL WORLD and see that their "darling precious little angel" isnt so "darling". Yeah your "never do anything wrong" kid wouldnt smash car windows even though WE HAVE HIM ON VIDEO doing it. Or my favorite, lets not keep score at (insert sport played) because he/she may develop a lack of self esteem if they lose. 4-5 yr olds sports is one thing, but at 12 they should had learned by then that not everyone wins.

Amen to all of this!!

[adina]

I'm going to start spanking my dog. I wonder if that will help....she's such a butthead.