And McCain chooses...

[jgredline]

Are you saying that korea, viet-nam, and iraq x2 were fought to protect our freedom, Jaiver?

Can you elaborate?

I'm also not aware that the democratic congress is running the war.....personally I wish they would.

Congress was running this war until they let General Patreas do his thing. This is why the surge is working. Even Obama admits this...

[GB1]

J - Hmmm.. it's interesting to read this thread, but I guess I am learning some things that I didn't know, like,

"It does bother me how we can send Billions of dollars to countries who hate us...I don't understand why we are feeding Russia for example."

So, we're "feeding" Russia? Or do you simply mean they're buying food from us..?

"As far as the troops, it breaks my heart to see and hear of our troops dying. My Company sends care packages down to IRAQ every month with the simple things of life like toiletries, tooth paste, shavers, etc...It is not much, but it's something....We should not take out our aggressions on the soldiers for a war that was being run by this democratic congress."

Like Frog, I wasn't aware that the Democratic congress was running the war in Iraq. Btw it is great for you all to send stuff to our troops, but being ex-military I believe you're sending over the very stuff that they probably give the soldiers for free or have available for them to buy. Try sending interesting stuff that they can't buy there.

"His belief in lets take care of the United States FIRST..."

Out of curiosity, I would ask why you as a Christian believe that the USA should always be first? There's probably a dozen possible reasons for your statement, but I am interested in your response..

"Back to abortion for a minute...
Barack obama supports Partial birth abortion and Infanticide...
Why are those with liberal views avoiding this here on PR.??"

I have no strong opinion on abortion. I don't think I like it but I think there's people out there who do not believe the person is born yet and therefore is not murder as you describe. Are you right, or are they?

"but you can bet that Homosexual marriage will also be federal law...OH, oh....Did I just open up pandoras box?"

I also have very little opinion on gay marriage. But I guess I prefer the government stay out of this one - whom are they to say who can be in love with each other? It's not for me to judge what they heck they do with their lives as long as it doesn't hurt me. There's more important issues to worry about anyway, like the mess in Iraq...

Like I said, a very interesting thread...................

[Frog]

elaborate? I asked the question. Of couse we haven't really had a war since wwII. We're still in Korea, lost Nam after using a lie,(gulf of Tonkin), as an excuse, left Iraq unfinished the first time and can't figure out how to finish the second time.
Democrats weren't in control of congress until this year and I'll admit they haven't done any better.

[Anbesol]

Javier - yes, please send me the book that talks about what Vietnam, Korea, and Iraq had to threaten our freedom.

Homosexual marriage will also be federal law...OH, oh....Did I just open up pandoras box?

Gay marriage is the most petty bogus 'issue' in politics. It was one of those 'don't pay attention to the REAL issues' issues. Shame on the politicians who pander with this pseudo-issue.

You know - I also find it quite hypocritical for people to express a concern exlusively for the American troops that die over there. What about the Al-Qaeda soldiers? Its easy to paint someone a bad guy, but no matter your perception its still a living breathing creature. And what of course about the countless Iraqi citizens who have been slain in crossfire or the fog of war or what have you, there are exponentially more Arab soldiers and citizens dying than US troops. What makes them less deserving of life than anybody else? I mourn them all without a distinction of US, Arab, or Antarctican.

Javier - I really liked Ron Paul too, he didn't "not support" Israel, he simply doesnt want the US to continue flooding them with money and giving them blank papers for them to write our foreign policies on. Also realizing that they are more armed then the entire middle eastern region combined, multiplied by 10 - thats excluding the few hundred nuclear warheads - 200+ of which the massive plutonium type, the rest of the region has 0 and US is having a hissy fit because Iran "could maybe possibly" have a single uranium warhead.

Besides, I still have yet to hear anybody give a good legal justification for Israel's occupation - as far as I can see their occupation is an infringement of Palestinian sovereignty and thus illegal.

[Greg McCary]

Well I think gay marriage is another issue that really should not be a factor in selecting a President. He really has nothing to do with it, I have gay friends and certainly don't mind if they get married. Who am I to judge thier life style choices? The only ones to profit from it in the long run are divorce attorneys. I am sure if Elton John got a divorce it would make Paul McCartneys or Phil Collins divorce look like a snow ball fight. LOL

[Didache]

I agree that the gay marriage issue is something of a red herring. I suspect it arouses such strong feelings in US evangelical circles, not because of its importance in its own right, but because it is a "line in the sand" kind of issue. That could be arguable I suppose, but it is my strong impression. As such, it can be (and has been) used in order to whip up fear and emotion in people (for instance, the way that Karl Rove got resolutions about it onto the ballots of swing states last time around).

As for the UK, although we do not have gay marriages (marriage having a specific legal definition) we DO have civil partnerships which are performed in the Registry Office in a similar way as civil marriages. Not long after these became legal the local Registrar, who I see periodically on a professional basis, told me that the police forces up and down the country were "on call" on the day civil partnerships began, in case there were demonstrations etc. In the end, what happened? Zilch. Nada. Nothing. The event came and went with barely a whisper.

In other words, the world has not stopped turning.

Interestingly, at the time people in my profession were wondering what to do in the event of same sex partnerships seeking a church blessing. My deacons (sort of like my advisory-governing board) decided they would back me up in whatever decision I took in relation to individual cases. Having said that, I have never been so approached, so it is all academic

Cheers
Mike

[jgredline]

Hi Folks,
Be back later to address the individual posts. I only brought up the Homosexual marriage because Walter mentioned it and asked earlier about it and I brought up my point of view...I Agree with Mike in that it is somewhat of a Red herring...

Lets get this back on track....

Be back later..

[big baldo]

Just look at the first gulf war........Bush #1 guess who his secretary of defense was?......yes thats right, Dick Cheney....hmmmmm coincidence!!??
As far as the abortion debate and the Joe Biden interview, I thought he did a great job! Personally, hes is Pro-life(pro-birth), but politically he is pro-choice. Pretty simple.
Where was all this outrage for the rights of children when Bush squashed the bill giving healthcare to over 10 million children?? What about those "living" children?
I dont agree with those who say life begins at conception, just my opinion.

If ALL abortions were illegal what would be the next step?....maybe we should investigate women who have miscarriages, for murder charges. Maybe they did something to cause the fetus to abort, like smoke a cigarette, or over-exert themselves. If they "did something" that could have caused the "baby" to abort, then by pro-life standards these baby-killing women should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.......

On the topic of gay marriage.....it usually the ones who are stirring up the most trouble are the ones you have to watch out for......just ask Ted Haggard LOLOL
"Do as I say, not as I got caught doing!"

[jgredline]

Out of curiosity, I would ask why you as a Christian believe that the USA should always be first? There's probably a dozen possible reasons for your statement, but I am interested in your response..

Since you asked, I will try and give an answer...I do not believe that the USA should ''always'' be first, however there are a few things we should consider...Since you asked me the question as a Christian, I will answer the question as Christian which is what I would done in any case, since I can't separate who I am...The bible tells us that to whom much is given, much is required...God has blessed this country greatly and as such I feel we have an obligation to help those who are less fortunate...
The bible also tells us that when people do not receive us, then we are to dust our feet off and move on...How ever, I also feel that there are many good people who are homeless and in need of help here in the U.S. and often they are forgotten...
People who need a break...We need to help them also....

As far as sending monthly supplies to our soldiers, you would be surprised...
We do our overseas work through Samaritans Purse and we send them care packages for various needs...And yes, shamefully, many of our troops do NOT have the simple things of life like toiletries...

"Back to abortion for a minute...
Barack obama supports Partial birth abortion and Infanticide...
Why are those with liberal views avoiding this here on PR.??"

I have no strong opinion on abortion. I don't think I like it but I think there's people out there who do not believe the person is born yet and therefore is not murder as you describe. Are you right, or are they?

The bible makes it clear that conception is in the womb....Both good and wicked..
3 The wicked are estranged from the womb;
They go astray as soon as they are born, speaking lies.
4 Their poison is like the poison of a serpent;
They are like the deaf cobra that stops its ear,
5 Which will not heed the voice of charmers,
Charming ever so skillfully.
The New King James Version. 1982 (Ps 58:3-5)

13 For You formed my inward parts;
You covered me in my mother’s womb.
14 I will praise You, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made;
Marvelous are Your works,
And that my soul knows very well.
The New King James Version. 1982 (Ps 139:13-14)

I can site many more verses, but two will suffice for now...From a medical point of view, brain waves can now be measured at 2 days of age..Also that ''fetus'' has its own DNA....

"but you can bet that Homosexual marriage will also be federal law...OH, oh....Did I just open up pandoras box?"

I also have very little opinion on gay marriage. But I guess I prefer the government stay out of this one - whom are they to say who can be in love with each other? It's not for me to judge what they heck they do with their lives as long as it doesn't hurt me. There's more important issues to worry about anyway, like the mess in Iraq...

Like I said, a very interesting thread...................

Well, if we look at the mess that Homosexual unions have created in familys, the ones who get hurt the most are the kids...

[jgredline]

Be back later to answer the rest of the posts...This thing called work, calls me...

[jgredline]

elaborate? I asked the question. Of couse we haven't really had a war since wwII. We're still in Korea, lost Nam after using a lie,(gulf of Tonkin), as an excuse, left Iraq unfinished the first time and can't figure out how to finish the second time.
Democrats weren't in control of congress until this year and I'll admit they haven't done any better.

Goof points frog and yes, both the Republican and democratic congress have left us in a quagmire...

[GB1]

Be back later to answer the rest of the posts...This thing called work, calls me...

J, you are becoming a Rock Star!!

[jgredline]

Besides, I still have yet to hear anybody give a good legal justification for Israel's occupation - as far as I can see their occupation is an infringement of Palestinian sovereignty and thus illegal.

Start a thread and point me to and lets discuss it.

[jgredline]

Well I think gay marriage is another issue that really should not be a factor in selecting a President. He really has nothing to do with it, I have gay friends and certainly don't mind if they get married. Who am I to judge thier life style choices? The only ones to profit from it in the long run are divorce attorneys. I am sure if Elton John got a divorce it would make Paul McCartneys or Phil Collins divorce look like a snow ball fight. LOL

It would surprise you I am sure, but I too have many Gay friends...Have had them for years...We can discuss this in another thread though..

I will say this though..Even among Christian homes, the divorce rate is out of control. Last I checked it was about 50% for both Christian and none Christian, so this is a big problem, bigger that homosexual marriage issue....

[snoid]

Hi Kidz..
Can't help but check in here...........
...........Does anyone remember where this started?
.............It ended in earnest with combination of church and state.........
Ms. Palin is Karl Roves' trojan moose.
Remember him? The guy that once said he could get an idiot elected president.
HE did, and now he wants to do it again.
He also once said his business is doubt.
It worked for 2 election cycles in spite of the fact that the financial writing was on the wall for everyone to see by the last election.
Ms. Palin is a complete unknown. She is currently in training. That's why she chooses not to talk to the press. You will likely see on the talk show circuit first.
She's just good TV. Keep the press busy trying to define her.......distraction!
It's about the economy stupid!
Meanwhile Bush is still busy trying to stir up even more trouble where ever the opportunity arises.
Last word?
Seperation of Church and State please.

[mn shutterbug]

Maybe it's time we had a good looking woman in office, one with limited experience. I think our country is due for some simple common sense. The good Lord knows, common sense hasn't had much with running our country for a long long time. Unfortunately, I'm not real keen on Palin's "running mate" and Obama just plain scares me.

[jgredline]

Don't have allot of time tonight, but wanted to go back to the OP for a second...Even Joe Biden has said Obama has made a mistake in picking him....

''Biden: Hillary a Better Pick Than Me''
ABC News' Matthew Jaffe reports: Sen. Barack Obama's, D-Ill., vice presidential nominee, Sen. Joe Biden, D-Del., Wednesday said that Sen. Hillary Clinton, D-N.Y., might have been a better pick for the position than him.

At a rally in Nashua, N.H., a man in the audience told Biden how glad he was that Obama picked him over Hillary, "not because she's a woman, but because, look at the things she did in the past."

"Make no mistake about this," Biden responded. "Hillary Clinton is as qualified or more qualified than I am to be vice president of the United States of America. Let’s get that straight. She’s a truly close personal friend, she is qualified to be president of the United States of America, she’s easily qualified to be vice president of the United States of America, and quite frankly, it might have been a better pick than me. But she’s first rate, I mean that sincerely, she’s first rate, so let’s get that straight."

Spokesman Ben Porritt offered this response from the McCain camp: "Barack Obama’s most important decision of this election, and Biden -- the candidate he selects -- suggests, himself, that he wasn’t the right man for the job, and that Hillary Clinton would have been a better choice. Biden certainly has a credible viewpoint on this."

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalra...hillary-a.html

The Obama camp is in a mess...

[Anbesol]

JG - that is the biggest spin job in misrepresented politics I've ever seen. That response is by no stretch of the imagination a wildly twisted take on Biden's words.

"even Joe Biden said Obama made a mistake picking him." - honestly, this isn't even close to what he said, he was just kissing Hillary's ass and sending her the party affiliation praises. Probably pandering to the disgruntled Hillary voters... That man says everybody is a 'close friend' to him, anyways, he even said that about McCain...

[Frog]

Sorry, Javier but I'm not getting your point on your last post unless it is your way of showing us the twists the McCain camp puts on innocent remarks. I find Mr. Biden's humility refreshing. This whole thing has become a mess....just like always.
As and American, I find it very embarrassing.

[GB1]

Spokesman Ben Porritt offered this response from the McCain camp: "Barack Obama’s most important decision of this election, and Biden -- the candidate he selects -- suggests, himself, that he wasn’t the right man for the job, and that Hillary Clinton would have been a better choice. Biden certainly has a credible viewpoint on this."

J - So, you actually think that McCain's Spokesman would say that Senator Obama's wise choice shows that he's the right man for the job?

LOL

Sorry folks ... I grew up in the Wash DC area... everything you hear between now the election day will be 99.9% posturing, half truths and utter nonsense. get used to it.

[walterick]

The bible makes it clear that conception is in the womb

But conception occurs in the fallopian tubes.

From a medical point of view, brain waves can now be measured at 2 days of age

I would like to see this science if you have it. I am looking at my human development textbook and it states that brain activity does not begin until week 28. At day 2, the zygote is still only a couple of cells, and looks something like this:
zygote

[jgredline]

J - So, you actually think that McCain's Spokesman would say that Senator Obama's wise choice shows that he's the right man for the job?

LOL

Sorry folks ... I grew up in the Wash DC area... everything you hear between now the election day will be 99.9% posturing, half truths and utter nonsense. get used to it.

Well, there are ''ALLOT'' of rumblings right now that Biden might step down. Of his own choice I am sure

[GB1]

Well, there are ''ALLOT'' of rumblings right now that Biden might step down. Of his own choice I am sure

LOL Again! You actually think that Broadway Joe would walk away from the limelight..???! He's a pig in stuff right now

[jgredline]

LOL Again! You actually think that Broadway Joe would walk away from the limelight..???! He's a pig in stuff right now

Well, all this talk has come from the Dems...We will see what happens. Personally I hope Biden stays as that will just about assure the republicans the white house.

[Frog]

I'd like to know what your source is that Biden might step down.