The Blame Game.....fill me in?

[adina]

So I was watching the news yesterday while at a birthday party. So I missed quite a bit. Can someone fill in the blanks?

I heard that in New Orleans they are blaming the Bush administration for the length of time it took to begin cleaning up from Katrina. I also heard that the Bush admin is blaming the New Orleans officials for the length of time to get in there. I also heard it suggested that the reason it took so long to begin cleanup was that it is a predominately black area. I then heard that it would have taken that long to get there if Jesus himself was stranded on a roof.

Anyone?

[Michael Fanelli]

So I was watching the news yesterday while at a birthday party. So I missed quite a bit. Can someone fill in the blanks?

I heard that in New Orleans they are blaming the Bush administration for the length of time it took to begin cleaning up from Katrina. I also heard that the Bush admin is blaming the New Orleans officials for the length of time to get in there. I also heard it suggested that the reason it took so long to begin cleanup was that it is a predominately black area. I then heard that it would have taken that long to get there if Jesus himself was stranded on a roof.

Breath in...

The fact of the matter is that a three state disaster of this magnitude requires federal relief. The fact of the matter is that it took days and days for the federal government to decide to do something to help the massive suffering. Even when they first got there, the help started out very weak.

This was not a sudden disaster, the hurricane took more than a week to even hit the coast. It was a category 5 right up until the last minute. No one in the federal government had a clue this would cause damage to the coast?

Our government is spending hundreds of billons of dollars waging war in Iraq. We have little left for our citizens here at home. When the tsunami hit half way across the world, we were on the spot quickly. For our own citizens? Who cares. One parish president suggested renaming Jefferson Parrish as "Jeffersonia" so the administration would think they were foreigners.

Bush is the head of the administration. His continuing and complete lack of leadership hinders the ability of others to get their act together. If Bush had said "Get your butts over to the Gulf Coast now!" the aid would have been fast and effective. He chose to sit back dreaming about his next vacation.

It was Truman who said "The buck stops here." With Bush, it's "Buck? What buck? I don't see any buck! If there is a buck it isn't mine! It's every one else's buck." Bush is the head of the administration and that makes him responsible. Yet, as always, he will never accept that or any other responsibility at all.

Breath out...

[Lionheart]

I'm glad I'm not the only one in the world who thinks the Prez dropped the ball on this one. There is so much apathy around my neck of the woods I just want to scream. The folks in the office are spoiled, and don't have a clue what it's like to be below the poverty level as roughly 30% of the folks are in the disaster areas. Evacuating simply isn't that easy when you don't have the financial resources to hop a bus, or drive your car to who knows where. These people represent the poorest of the poor, buying a one way ticket out isn't as simple as it sounds. All of us here on PR have the discretionary resources to afford our hobby, so evacuation on a moments notice is a relatively simple thing, we're educated and gainfully employed with resources to last through most emergencies. The government needed to have evacuation options available early for those who depended most on them, and med units ready to roll on a moments notice. Certainly the response time on 9/11 was orders of magnitude faster than this, and we had no advance warning on that. We are able to mobilize help for strangers half a world away faster than this, but for our own? What I hate around my neck of the woods is the attitude that the isolated incidents of violence and shooting justifies the lack of response and rescue efforts. What I hate most is the "well so what if we lost a few thousand welfare losers" mindset of some of our well pampered staff members, which unfortunately, is not limited to my office staff, but to some of my partners as well (and we're supposed to be loving Christians-where's the love?).

[opus]

Don't forget that FEMA was absorbed into the larger, untested Department of Homeland Security -- remember, the ones who sent us all to the store for plastic wrap and duct tape -- crippling its ability to move swiftly as an independent entity with Cabinet status.

(for an interesting article, read this: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9166337/)

I believe there is plenty of blame to go around.

1) This was predicted YEARS in advance. Yet no plan was in place.
2) This was supposedly PRACTICED for last year. But they only practiced a Cat 3 storm, not "worst case."
3) This was WARNED about in no uncertain terms by the NHC since the storm left the Florida coast (see attachments). Yet evacuations delays occurred, because it was not "certain" to happen. Pressure from the business community, perhaps?
4) It seems when the evacuations were finally ordered, it was left to "every man for himself."

And then after the storm ... well, that will be discussed at length here and elsewhere for many years to come.

There ARE heroes, though. The American Public is one of them.


Let me post for you a few pictures taken from various meteorological sources before the storm hit. (I apologize that these are not "my" images, but considering the circumstances, I don't have the right equipment to get these. ) They are, as far as I know, considered public images though.

Note the date on the second one: Friday August 26, 2005. 60 hours before the storm hit. Granted, these storms can and do move within the "cone", but with Surface Sea Temperatures what they were at the time, the risk of a very large, very powerful storm developing was high ... and as the first graphic shows, computer models were very much in agreement about where this storm was going, to an unusual degree ...

[opus]

Oh, and may I post for you a warning that was issued on Sunday morning by the National Weather Service. We were all scratching our heads over the powerful, severe language used. But see if this doesn't seem almost like a script for what did in fact happen:

-------------------------------------------------
URGENT - WEATHER MESSAGE
NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE NEW ORLEANS LA
1011 AM CDT SUN AUG 28 2005

...DEVASTATING DAMAGE EXPECTED...

.HURRICANE KATRINA...A MOST POWERFUL HURRICANE WITH UNPRECEDENTED STRENGTH...RIVALING THE INTENSITY OF HURRICANE CAMILLE OF 1969.

MOST OF THE AREA WILL BE UNINHABITABLE FOR WEEKS...PERHAPS LONGER. AT LEAST ONE HALF OF WELL CONSTRUCTED HOMES WILL HAVE ROOF AND WALL FAILURE. ALL GABLED ROOFS WILL FAIL...LEAVING THOSE HOMES SEVERELY DAMAGED OR DESTROYED.

THE MAJORITY OF INDUSTRIAL BUILDINGS WILL BECOME NON FUNCTIONAL. PARTIAL TO COMPLETE WALL AND ROOF FAILURE IS EXPECTED. ALL WOOD FRAMED LOW RISING APARTMENT BUILDINGS WILL BE DESTROYED. CONCRETE BLOCK LOW RISE APARTMENTS WILL SUSTAIN MAJOR DAMAGE...INCLUDING SOME WALL AND ROOF FAILURE.

HIGH RISE OFFICE AND APARTMENT BUILDINGS WILL SWAY DANGEROUSLY...A FEW TO THE POINT OF TOTAL COLLAPSE. ALL WINDOWS WILL BLOW OUT.

AIRBORNE DEBRIS WILL BE WIDESPREAD...AND MAY INCLUDE HEAVY ITEMS SUCH AS HOUSEHOLD APPLIANCES AND EVEN LIGHT VEHICLES. SPORT UTILITY VEHICLES AND LIGHT TRUCKS WILL BE MOVED. THE BLOWN DEBRIS WILL CREATE ADDITIONAL DESTRUCTION. PERSONS...PETS...AND LIVESTOCK EXPOSED TO THE WINDS WILL FACE CERTAIN DEATH IF STRUCK.

POWER OUTAGES WILL LAST FOR WEEKS...AS MOST POWER POLES WILL BE DOWN AND TRANSFORMERS DESTROYED. WATER SHORTAGES WILL MAKE HUMAN SUFFERING INCREDIBLE BY MODERN STANDARDS.

THE VAST MAJORITY OF NATIVE TREES WILL BE SNAPPED OR UPROOTED. ONLY THE HEARTIEST WILL REMAIN STANDING...BUT BE TOTALLY DEFOLIATED. FEW CROPS WILL REMAIN. LIVESTOCK LEFT EXPOSED TO THE WINDS WILL BE KILLED.

AN INLAND HURRICANE WIND WARNING IS ISSUED WHEN SUSTAINED WINDS NEAR HURRICANE FORCE...OR FREQUENT GUSTS AT OR ABOVE HURRICANE FORCE...ARE CERTAIN WITHIN THE NEXT 12 TO 24 HOURS.

ONCE TROPICAL STORM AND HURRICANE FORCE WINDS ONSET...DO NOT VENTURE OUTSIDE!

[Peter_AUS]

And don't forget the other citizens of the world that were visiting there at the time either. About 80 Australians where caught up in all this, many have been found and evacuated, but only after our own Channel 7 News Teams found them and drove them out of the city of New Orleans themselves with an armed driver. Our consulate officals were denied access to the area up until just today your time to search for missing people. 2 young woman were rescued by a neighbouring group of law enforcement people who drove, armed into New Orleans got the two woman and drove them out to safety.

There are still 2 missing Aussies, one a resident of New Orleans missing, probably still stuck underneath the highway.

Looking at this from our Perspective, here in Australia, it does seem that more than the ball has been dropped by the Government Officials responsible for Disaster Co-Ordination. Not getting water and food into the area immediately I think is what has inflammed this situation the most and it does certainly seem that because of the nature of the predominately African American population involved, there has been a lack of interest helping them. Certainly visitors seem to have been caught up in this mind set of circumstances as well.

It was reported that people were bring children etc to some Aussies that were there as they were looking after people, giving food and water that they had accumulated themselves for survival to assist those worse off than themselves. They have now been taken out by our News crews and spoken about their ordeal and they feel that there was a high degree of a sense of abandonment within the people they had been around. Most feared for their lives, with all the shooting and killing that was going on. Surprise Surprise that there was a great deal of looting. Where on Earth are they going to plug the TV's into that they stole. Interesting, people with any common sense, went for Necessities, like Food, Water, Shoes and clothing. Even Police were filling up their trollies as well.

The coverage certainly has dipicted the African Americans as looters and other white races as taking only the necessities to survive. I think a bit biased as well. There seems to be about 90% African Americans there compared to 10% white folks, but then, they had probably already left in the vehicles to get to higher and safer ground.

Friends of ours parents lost their Winebago in this storm, thankfully they were up North at the time, but with their own problems this is something they didn't need.

Let's all hope they get through this disaster quickly, safely and the death toll is low and everyone can get about restoring services and rebuilding what seems to be a significant part of American Historical Prominence as well.

[mjs1973]

One of my first thoughts after seeing just how much damage this storm caused was, “what
is the rest of the world going to do to help us, since it seems like we are always one of the
first countries to offer aid when something devastating happens somewhere else in the
world?”

Well, I was reading on CNN.com yesterday, that more than 50 countries have offered
money, supplies, and whatever aid they could to help the people suffering from this storm.
I believe it was the country of Qatar that offered $100 million dollars in aid. The article
went on to say that NONE of the offers had been confirmed as being accepted. NONE!!!
That made my blood boil. Our own people are dying as I sit here and type this, and our
government is unwilling to accept help from other nations when the help is so desperately
needed. I’m sure some of these offers have been, or at least will be accepted, but why not
let the American people, and the rest of the world for that matter, know that our
government is doing everything we can to help. Do our leaders really think that someone
who is starving cares where the money for a loaf of bread comes from, or someone dying
of dehydration cares where a clean drink of water comes from?

Even Fidel Castro has offered to send 1586 physicians and 26 tons of supplies. According
to the article I read, again at CNN.com, he still hasn’t heard a response from the U.S. The
article said that 48 hours had past... How many lives could have been saved by 1586
doctors in 2 days? Now I know the U.S. isn’t a big fan of the Cuban dictator, and he
isn’t a big fan of our government, but help is help, and our people need it.

So why are the people in charge, not accepting these offers? Is the game of international
politics more important to our leaders than helping out the very people they swore an oath
to serve, when they became public servants, are in desperate need of help?

I’m sure there are many political issues behind the sceans that I know nothing about that
affect these decisions, but there is a time to be a politician, and a time to be human, this is definitely a time to be human.

[adina]

I saw the mayor of New Orleans on the news yesterday. They should put him in charge. From what he was saying, it is a political thing. That he had met with the president and the governer, and they weren't able to come to an agreement that would satisfy them both. She wants to be in charge, he wants to be in charge, so they just go back and forth.

The mayor is very outspoken. I love that.

[another view]

Even Fidel Castro has offered to send 1586 physicians and 26 tons of supplies.

That's pretty amazing. I don't know if Cuba felt any of this storm but they're certainly not new to hurricanes being in the Gulf. Of course, the reporters got there right away. Sure, we all wanted to see what was going on so we flipped on CNN, and there have been more journalists than rescuerers there early on. If they got there so quick, why couldn't more help? I don't know if there are any other cities of 1/2 a million people that are on the coast and below sea level - but the whole world knew it was coming. Like it's been said, for some people getting out before it hit just wasn't an option.

That weather forecast is really scary. I've never seen anything like that before. I've seen conditions that were really bad out on the great lakes - bad enough that any type of rescue out on the water would be difficult at best - and they've never used language like that before to describe it.

[opus]

The mayor is going to have to accept his fair share of blame too. I don't think anyone's going to escape some blame.

In fact, looking at the NHC storm track, they don't forecast the storm greater than a Cat 3 at this critical juncture in time. Granted, they do their forecasting off mathematical data and computer models (with a bit of climatological history thrown in for good measure), but with water temperatures in the GoM being so high, and the track being what it is, one would have thought they would have foreseen that the storm would grow as it did. Had NOLA seen the possibility of a Cat 4 at that point, they might have taken action earlier.

Who can know? It's all behind us now, tragically.

[paulnj]

YOU MAY NOT LIKE THIS VIEW, BUT IT IS AMERICA ;)

Not my view completely, but the facts are there to EXPLAIN the unruly behavior that warranted MARSHALL LAW !


75% of the residents of New Orleans had already evacuated before the hurricane,
> and of the 300,000 or so who remained, a large number were from the
> city's public housing projects. Jack Wakeland then gave me an
> additional, crucial fact: early reports from CNN and Fox indicated
> that the city had no plan for evacuating all of the prisoners in the
> city's jails--so they just let many of them loose. There is no doubt a
> significant overlap between these two populations--that is, a large
> number of people in the jails used to live in the housing projects,
> and vice versa.


All of this is related, incidentally, to the apparent incompetence of
> the city government, which failed to plan for a total evacuation of
> the city, despite the knowledge that this might be necessary. But in a
> city corrupted by the welfare state, the job of city officials is to
> ensure the flow of handouts to welfare recipients and patronage to
> political supporters--not to ensure a lawful, orderly evacuation in
> case of emergency
>
But what about criminals and welfare parasites? Do they worry about
> saving their houses and property? They don't, because they don't own
> anything. Do they worry about what is going to happen to their
> businesses or how they are going to make a living? They never worried
> about those things before. Do they worry about crime and looting? But
> living off of stolen wealth is a way of life for them

Source: TIA Daily -- September 2, 2005

[Michael Fanelli]

YOU MAY NOT LIKE THIS VIEW, BUT IT IS AMERICA ;)

Not my view completely, but the facts are there to EXPLAIN the unruly behavior that warranted MARSHALL LAW !

75% of the residents of New Orleans had already evacuated before the hurricane,
> and of the 300,000 or so who remained, a large number were from the
> city's public housing projects. Jack Wakeland then gave me an
> additional, crucial fact: early reports from CNN and Fox indicated
> that the city had no plan for evacuating all of the prisoners in the
> city's jails--so they just let many of them loose. There is no doubt a
> significant overlap between these two populations--that is, a large
> number of people in the jails used to live in the housing projects,
> and vice versa.

Analysis of the content, not you personally!

I have heard this before but it is much too simplistic. During the tsunami, during massive earthquakes in the middle east and europe, there were no gangs roaming the streets firing weapons and committing violent crimes. One obvious difference is the sheer number of available weapons in the US. The other is the growing attitude of "me first" that pervades the culture. Yes, some prisoners may have been a problem, people "from the projects" are no more prone than others to commit violence. They were just the ones left behind and abandoned.

All of this is related, incidentally, to the apparent incompetence of
> the city government, which failed to plan for a total evacuation of
> the city, despite the knowledge that this might be necessary.

Evacuation on this scale is well beyond the means of city or even state government. Fox and others show the rows of school busses unused: not even close to the number that would have been needed for evacuation. The hurricane hit a three-state region at once. You can't expect the city to take care of something that large.

> But in a
> city corrupted by the welfare state, the job of city officials is to
> ensure the flow of handouts to welfare recipients and patronage to
> political supporters--not to ensure a lawful, orderly evacuation in
> case of emergency

Drivel. Any excuse at all to blame the "welfare state." How does that apply to the hurricane? Many of thiose left behind were the working poor, not welfare recipients. This arguement is complete spurious and irrelevent. Do you really think that incraesing the homeless population would have incraesed evacuation? If the feds couldn't get their act together, how does the city get the resources to plan for a hundred year flood?

> But what about criminals and welfare parasites? Do they worry about
> saving their houses and property? They don't, because they don't own
> anything.

The majority of those left behind were the working poor who lost their homes and their apartments. It has NOTHING to do with "welfare parasites." There but for the grace of God go you. But that's a Christian thought not suitable for the right wing.

> Do they worry about what is going to happen to their
> businesses or how they are going to make a living? They never worried
> about those things before. Do they worry about crime and looting? But
> living off of stolen wealth is a way of life for them

More nonsense.. How many people in California plan for the mud slides, fires, and earthquakes? Are those multi-million dollar homes owned by welfare recipients?

[darkman]

Where was the president right after the storm? Hiding!, just like after 911. Then, he flew over in his jet.... Oh, and somebody took a picture of the "concerned" president looking out the window....

Of course, the presidents supporters say it's best this way. He needs to stay out of the way. IMO, we need leadership. The president showing up, and god forbid, helping (or at least looking like he is), instills confidence and builds moral. It would be nice if our president led for a change.

About this disaster, why are we so arogant? Is it the "god bless America" attitude? Why didn't they have a plan to get people out of NO? It's a time bomb waiting to go off. And, it will again. You have a city under a lake and a river in an unstable delta that is sinking deeper below the water every year. Other areas of the world with similar issues, like the Netherlands, have evacuation plans. The Dutch even have plans to let the ocean reclaim some of the land.

[paulnj]

I agree with alot you have said. But I , having been one of the "welfare state" for 2 years in my youth, feel I can contest to what welfare does to SOME people ;)

I know of( a friend's neighbors) a "family" of early 20's KIDS with 2 kids who make 2x my 48 hr a week income just MILKING the system. They are raising children who will do the same and are PROUD that they can do it. Somebody explain to me why I work again?


OK...

Don't get me wrong! I am not at all saying that POOR people don't deserve the same attention as financially stable people do. I am not going to play the race issue(but Kanye West is right). I also know what Bush is HEAVILY to lame , as HE can get ALL of the AVAILABLE military and government agencies mobilized with a few calls.

Why was the USS comfort not mobilized IMMEDIATELY, Why did it take so long to get the national guard in? Why did FEMA drop the ball ;)

Guns have nothing to do with why people were RAPING, KILLING, LOOTING( not taking needed goods) and my favorite... shooting at the army corp of engineers trying to fix the levy ;)

SELFISH GREED, LACK OF MORALS and DISREGUARD FOR OTHERS was the cause ;)

BTW.. I personally was saving very slowly for another camera body. I sent that $ to the RED CROSS last week

[paulnj]

HIDING ;) nothing more to say!

[almo]

Breath in...

The fact of the matter is that a three state disaster of this magnitude requires federal relief. The fact of the matter is that it took days and days for the federal government to decide to do something to help the massive suffering. Even when they first got there, the help started out very weak.

This was not a sudden disaster, the hurricane took more than a week to even hit the coast. It was a category 5 right up until the last minute. No one in the federal government had a clue this would cause damage to the coast?

Our government is spending hundreds of billons of dollars waging war in Iraq. We have little left for our citizens here at home. When the tsunami hit half way across the world, we were on the spot quickly. For our own citizens? Who cares. One parish president suggested renaming Jefferson Parrish as "Jeffersonia" so the administration would think they were foreigners.

Bush is the head of the administration. His continuing and complete lack of leadership hinders the ability of others to get their act together. If Bush had said "Get your butts over to the Gulf Coast now!" the aid would have been fast and effective. He chose to sit back dreaming about his next vacation.

It was Truman who said "The buck stops here." With Bush, it's "Buck? What buck? I don't see any buck! If there is a buck it isn't mine! It's every one else's buck." Bush is the head of the administration and that makes him responsible. Yet, as always, he will never accept that or any other responsibility at all.

Breath out...

Lets not forget the delays caused by the gov. of LA. when bush offered her two plans of action, and she said, "I need 24 hours to think it over" This while her own ppl were fighting and dying in the flooded streets of her state.

[Michael Fanelli]

Lets not forget the delays caused by the gov. of LA. when bush offered her two plans of action, and she said, "I need 24 hours to think it over" This while her own ppl were fighting and dying in the flooded streets of her state.

Bush wanted the governor to hand over complete control of state resources and people to the federal government. Considering how inept the feds were proving to be, that was not an easy choice. The state did a better job if for no other reason that they were there, the feds took their sweet time about even starting up.

[Michael Fanelli]

There is growing evidence that the Bush administration grossly inflated the resume of FEMA boss Michael Brown. This runs from the jobs he really held vs those claimed, his managerial experience, even his academic record. This might explain why the hurricane disaster was so completely bungled. Maybe we should have a poll here: Will the Bush Administration ever tell the truth about anything?"

Bush lies, people die. I will be very wary about voting for any Republican ever again.


http://www.time.com/time/nation/arti...0.html?cnn=yes

[mjs1973]

There is growing evidence that the Bush administration grossly inflated the resume of FEMA boss Michael Brown. This runs from the jobs he really held vs those claimed, his managerial experience, even his academic record. This might explain why the hurricane disaster was so completely bungled. Maybe we should have a poll here: Will the Bush Administration ever tell the truth about anything?"

Bush lies, people die. I will be very wary about voting for any Republican ever again.


http://www.time.com/time/nation/arti...0.html?cnn=yes

The more I hear about Michael Brown, the more I distrust Bush and his cronies. I didn't think that was possible, but I guess it is. I would respect the Bush a lot more if he would just tell us the truth, but that doesn't seem possible. In one breath he says that FEMA's reaction to the storm and the rescue effort is "unacceptable". Then he turns around and tells Brown he's doing a great job... If Brown is in charge of FEMA, and FEMA's actions are unacceptable, then how could he be doing a great job?

[carney2]

Check this op-ed piece by Charles Krauthammer in the "Washington Post."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...l?nav=hcmodule

He lists the culprits. YOU, by the way, are number 6.

[adina]

Check this op-ed piece by Charles Krauthammer in the "Washington Post."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...l?nav=hcmodule

He lists the culprits. YOU, by the way, are number 6.

That's one of the better articles I've read. Nobody escapes on that one.

[mjs1973]

I heard this on the way home from work today. Is anyone surprised?

[paulnj]

SOMEBODY needed to be a scape goat

[mjs1973]

SOMEBODY needed to be a scape goat

That's what I thought too. I wonder if anyone else will fall on their own sword in the days to come.

[Michael Fanelli]

SOMEBODY needed to be a scape goat

Of course, Michael Brown's resume was severely inflated and, during the first big crisis, he messed up big time. Lack of experience shows. That's not a scapegoat, that's an inept and unqualified department head.