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Thread: Amnesty Plan

  1. #1
    Poster Formerly Known as Michael Fanelli mwfanelli's Avatar
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    Amnesty Plan

    It appears that dubya is on the way to getting his immagration wish fufilled with the help of the doofus Democratic congress. Their plan to get control of illegal immigration? Simple: massive amnesty. Illegal? No problem! Just line up here and get legal the simple way!

    So, how many terrorists have already entered the US through our open southern border? Why was the last immigration crackdown imposed on the Canadian border?

    Does anyone even care?
    "Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it." --Mark Twain

  2. #2
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    Re: Amnesty Plan

    I care, it pisses me off when I see our govt. give money away to people who don't speak the language, don't want to, and plain refuse to, yet we have AMERICANS living on the streets, children starving and we can't help them, but you can give an illegal $40,000 and credit cards to buy homes and cars.

    I have some ilegals living across the street from me. The father works as cheap farm labor. One day last spring their then 6 year old daughter shows up at my house one noon all alone. She got home from kindergarten and no one was home, she hadn't eaten that day. The house they live in WAS nice, now the doors are all torn up and it's pretty much trashed inside and out. They recently had a 3rd daughter. They basically live rent free because they have big parties all weekend and can't afford the rent They blast the music so loud I can hear it IN my house over the TV at 1am. And of course the parents will not learn English. They got the county to buy them a fairly new van, they have a pickup truck and three cars as well and only the father has a license. Now how the hell does this guy get a license without a birth cert, SS card or any form of ID? The state won't gie me one without SS card and birth cert and a third form of ID!

    I say ship them ALL back where they came from!
    If the president insists they become citizens let them EARN IT and do it like France does. They have 2 years to learn the language and pass a WRITTEN TEST and a spoken test before they can become citizens.
    There are those who the US was built by foreigners, true, but they earned their citizenship and didn't get anything handed to them, we didn't have to hire special teachers in our public schools just to teach the Spanish speaking kids who refused to learn English, and we didn't have to have Spansh language ads and package lables for those who didn't learn the language.

    It's another case of the degrading of America, and Indianapolis is quickly learning that supporting these people is dangerous business as Mexican gangs are trying to move into the city and take over drug dealing and other criminal activity. And there isn't a day that goes by that I don't hear on the scanner an officer asking for a Spanish interpriter.
    Murders are way up in Indy this year, as are shootings and it is due to the drug war between black and Hispanic gangs. Police chases are way up too, and most now involve Hispanics here. They have now started a special task force just to deal with Hispanic related crime....funded by our tax dollars, both federal and state.
    The worst part is their own country is spending millions giving them directions of how to get into the US. We first need to cut ALL funds off to Mexico, and then send the illegals back to them. If it takes putting troops on the border to keep them out so be it.

    As for the Northern border, yeah, we should keep those crazy Canadians out of the US
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  3. #3
    Senior Member Copy_Kot's Avatar
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    Re: Amnesty Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by mwfanelli
    Does anyone even care?
    Well if they don't now, they will soon.

    Who do you complain too? A dem who wants a bigger voting base, or a rep who wants cheap labor? Our politicians are sending us to hell in a hand-basket.

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    Re: Amnesty Plan

    Once again a Hispanic here in the Indy area shows why they cannot be allowed to stay. He kidnapped and raped a 7 year old girl. He actually climbed through a third floor balcony and took her from her bed and then to his apartment next door. He is now in jail, facing a 100 year sentence.
    Apparently he was a known child molester in Mexico.
    One thing that worries me is the fact that many of these illegals are known criminals in Mexico and are being told to leave the country, even getting assistance from the Mexican govt. to cross the border. It's been known that the Mexican govt. has given illegals maps showing where to cross the border. They are sending the criminals and poor to here for us to deal with, and Bush and his cronies are playing right into the Mexican govts hands.

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    mooo...wooh hoooh! schrackman's Avatar
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    Re: Amnesty Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by mwfanelli
    It appears that dubya is on the way to getting his immagration wish fufilled with the help of the doofus Democratic congress. Their plan to get control of illegal immigration? Simple: massive amnesty. Illegal? No problem! Just line up here and get legal the simple way!

    So, how many terrorists have already entered the US through our open southern border? Why was the last immigration crackdown imposed on the Canadian border?

    Does anyone even care?
    Hey Michael, I think we found something that we completely agree upon!! It's hard to imagine that with all the alledged concern over America's safety from both parties that they both are willing to just ignore what laws we already have on the books. What a waste of our taxpayers' money for them to even sit around and debate this issue when the laws are already made and made clear. They could be spending their time on other important things while letting our border officials freely enforce the laws we already have.

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    Poster Formerly Known as Michael Fanelli mwfanelli's Avatar
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    Re: Amnesty Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by schrackman
    Hey Michael, I think we found something that we completely agree upon!! It's hard to imagine that with all the alledged concern over America's safety from both parties that they both are willing to just ignore what laws we already have on the books. What a waste of our taxpayers' money for them to even sit around and debate this issue when the laws are already made and made clear. They could be spending their time on other important things while letting our border officials freely enforce the laws we already have.
    What really stinks is that this new amnesty plan applies only to those crossing the border from countries to the south, mostly Mexico. Everyone else, from Swedes to Koreans to Austrailians to Polish etc. are still required to go through the long and in-depth citizenship process. No citizenship tests for these peoples, no requirements to learn English, no nothing. Just pay $5000 and get citizenship. This is sickening.

    As for some of the other comments, I don't agree with them. If you have never rented a property to college girls you have no idea what property destruction looks like! Illegals can be criminals but no more or less than the general US population. An example here and there does not create a generalized rule.
    "Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it." --Mark Twain

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    Re: Amnesty Plan

    Don't forget, the US Govt...aka TAXPAYERS will pay the $5k PLUS up to $40k to "get them a start".....and they can get WELFARE without doing anything, don't even have to try and get a job. They normally use the 40k for things like a few months rent, new car or truck, stereo and TV's (big screen of course). And around here they normally use whats left to get started dealing drugs.....
    The family across the street hasn't paid rent since last Oct. Due to laws protecting them they cannot be thrown out on the streets, but it's OK to do that to citizens of the US ....and their children.

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  8. #8
    Too square to be hip. almo's Avatar
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    Re: Amnesty Plan

    I care, but unless the whole of this country is ready to pursue and armed uprising then what is the f***ing point. Politicians stopped listening to us long ago. This country has spoken up in an almost overwhelming manner to say NO, and still they plot ahead with it. Wake up friends, there is no longer a United States. Not the one we thought we were being given anyway. Thanks a lot boomers.
    Last edited by almo; 05-31-2007 at 04:18 AM.
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    Senior Shooter Greg McCary's Avatar
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    Re: Amnesty Plan

    I think that the Gov't is looking at it from only on side. It's the only way to make the illegals pay taxes. It's all about money. But I think that most of the past Presidents have done this? You can't really force them back, so might as well make them tax payers..... But I must agree we need to patrol our border"s" better, the situation is beyond out of control.
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  10. #10
    Too square to be hip. almo's Avatar
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    Re: Amnesty Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Greg McCary
    I think that the Gov't is looking at it from only on side. It's the only way to make the illegals pay taxes. It's all about money. But I think that most of the past Presidents have done this? You can't really force them back, so might as well make them tax payers..... But I must agree we need to patrol our border"s" better, the situation is beyond out of control.
    Close my friend, but no banana. Votes is what it's all about. Dems wants to legalize them because they believe they will get their votes, and the GOPs want to legalize them because they are afraid that if they show up on the "wrong" side of the issue they won't get any of the votes from the illegals, but more importantly, they believe that it will have an adverse affect on the opinions of an American Hispanic minority that traditionally has voted conservatively. It's all about the maintenance of power.

    Money, well sure, but think about this Greg, they vast majority of these people will never make more than 10k a year. That is below the federally mandated poverty line, and therefore, they will never actually pay income taxes.
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  11. #11
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    Re: Amnesty Plan

    Not so certain now! The Senate shot the bill down today Now the INS can get back to work deporting the illegals. :thumbsup:

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  12. #12
    Poster Formerly Known as Michael Fanelli mwfanelli's Avatar
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    Re: Amnesty Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by JSPhoto
    Not so certain now! The Senate shot the bill down today Now the INS can get back to work deporting the illegals. :thumbsup:

    JS
    Other than the fact that the work of the INS hardly ever involves deporting anyone. Worse yet, another state (forgot which one) is starting to issue state IDs and drivers licenses to illegals.

    Hey, Congress and the administration are just too busy stemming the tide of illegal Canadians with sophisticated high-tech toys to get around to doing anything except general amnesty to protect our southern border.
    "Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it." --Mark Twain

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    Re: Amnesty Plan

    Well it's no wonder the illegals are still around, even AFTER being arrested for crimes here, a judge, in all his wisdom ordered a guy from El Salvadore to report for deportation on a certain date (last year) and tonight the State Police found him and that there was a warrant for deportation for failure to appear for his flight. What judge in his right mind thinks for a minute that these people are actually going to show up for a deportation flight? It's cheaper to stick them on the next flight out of the country than keep them locked up, and safer than letting them back on the streets. Who knows what this guy has done since he skipped his flight, but I don't think he will miss the next flight

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  14. #14
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    Re: Amnesty Plan

    I hate to even talk about this because it gets my blood boiling.
    I know almost all of us are descended from immigrants but I believe it is time to stop ALL immigration except for those who are oppressed by their governments.
    Mexico has plenty of resources to have a stable economy but they don't seem to be able to stop their own corruption.
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    Poster Formerly Known as Michael Fanelli mwfanelli's Avatar
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    Re: Amnesty Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Frog
    I hate to even talk about this because it gets my blood boiling.
    I know almost all of us are descended from immigrants but I believe it is time to stop ALL immigration except for those who are oppressed by their governments.
    Mexico has plenty of resources to have a stable economy but they don't seem to be able to stop their own corruption.
    Yep, almost all of us are children of immigrants. But there is one major difference: our immigrant ancestors were LEGAL immigrants, respected our laws, learned English, and were proud to be Americans. They didn't run around waving the flags of their "old country" and bragging, in languages other than English which they never bothered to learn, how they scammed the US. If Mexico controlled their wild and uncontrolled corruption, there would be plenty of money to create a Mexican economy to support Mexican citizens.
    "Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it." --Mark Twain

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    Re: Amnesty Plan

    Certainly something has got to be done. But on a sad note I have a friend who has been trying to become a US citizen since he arrived in 92. He is here on a work pass and pays taxes. He works a high paid job and works all over the east coast installing wireless networks for hotels.He reads writes and speaks english.He is one computer wizard too. He has a US girlfriend and plans to marry after he becomes a citizen. He could easily marry and be one overnight.
    Georgia has recently passed laws that will effect him. He will lose his drivers license as soon as they expire and when his work pass expires could be deported. It is ashame that someone who works as hard as he does and is a positive member of society faces these issues. He hasn't said but I am sure he will finally get married to stay here.
    His employers have written letters to congressman and he still waits.
    He also has a brother that owns a local garage and is a top notch mechanic that faces the same problem. The Nissan Dealership here in town farms out the cars they can't get to to his brother. Wow, isn't our government wonderful sometimes. If my friend could dunk a basketball, was over 7ft tall and was from China he might have a better chance.
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    Poster Formerly Known as Michael Fanelli mwfanelli's Avatar
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    Re: Amnesty Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Greg McCary
    Certainly something has got to be done. But on a sad note I have a friend who has been trying to become a US citizen since he arrived in 92. He is here on a work pass and pays taxes. He works a high paid job and works all over the east coast installing wireless networks for hotels.He reads writes and speaks english.He is one computer wizard too. He has a US girlfriend and plans to marry after he becomes a citizen. He could easily marry and be one overnight.
    Georgia has recently passed laws that will effect him. He will lose his drivers license as soon as they expire and when his work pass expires could be deported. It is ashame that someone who works as hard as he does and is a positive member of society faces these issues. He hasn't said but I am sure he will finally get married to stay here.
    His employers have written letters to congressman and he still waits.
    He also has a brother that owns a local garage and is a top notch mechanic that faces the same problem. The Nissan Dealership here in town farms out the cars they can't get to to his brother. Wow, isn't our government wonderful sometimes. If my friend could dunk a basketball, was over 7ft tall and was from China he might have a better chance.
    Greg
    This is the problem. Bush and Congress want to reward those who broke our laws with amnesty and citizenship while those who follow the legal process are forced to go through every tedious step.
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  18. #18
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    Re: Amnesty Plan

    The Governor here in Georgia has really made it plain illegals are not welcome. The laws here in Georgia are getting tougher. I think Georgia is one of the only states that will that will stop illegals from driveing. But I have always said if you lock up the ones who hire them the problem would go away almost overnight. I just hate it that my friend faces what he does. He is one class act and his brother is too.
    I am like Barney Fife, I have a gun but Andy makes me keep the bullet in my pocket..

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    Re: Amnesty Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by mwfanelli
    This is the problem. Bush and Congress want to reward those who broke our laws with amnesty and citizenship while those who follow the legal process are forced to go through every tedious step.
    What do you expect from a criminal but to allow more criminals into the country and give them freedom to do what they want. He commuted his buddy from his prison sentence and he wants to flood the US with more criminals.

    This is a big business 1: the allowing the illegals to stay and commit crimes helps create a bigger police presense on our streets...aka Police State 2: employers who hire them make more money for themselves by not paying the going rates or payroll taxes 3: they need bigger jails to house more criminals - jails are big business, the more inmates you have the more federal money you get....and the fewer rights you and I have because they keep making new laws to arrest more people.
    By putting Americans out of work they also force them to commit crimes, especially low income people. Here in Indiana we have one prison thats not at capacity, and to help add to it's inmate count they bring prisoners from Arizona. A few weeks ago they rioted. It's just a never ending circus, the jails are so full they want to build bigger and bigger jails. They release too many early or accidentally, and it normally has tragic resluts.
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  20. #20
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    Re: Amnesty Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by JSPhoto
    What do you expect from a criminal but to allow more criminals into the country and give them freedom to do what they want. He commuted his buddy from his prison sentence and he wants to flood the US with more criminals.

    This is a big business 1: the allowing the illegals to stay and commit crimes helps create a bigger police presense on our streets...aka Police State 2: employers who hire them make more money for themselves by not paying the going rates or payroll taxes 3: they need bigger jails to house more criminals - jails are big business, the more inmates you have the more federal money you get....and the fewer rights you and I have because they keep making new laws to arrest more people.
    By putting Americans out of work they also force them to commit crimes, especially low income people. Here in Indiana we have one prison thats not at capacity, and to help add to it's inmate count they bring prisoners from Arizona. A few weeks ago they rioted. It's just a never ending circus, the jails are so full they want to build bigger and bigger jails. They release too many early or accidentally, and it normally has tragic resluts.
    Most immigrants are not criminals who need to be locked up. But they claim that they are not criminals at all. Of course they are, they broke our immigration laws! They aren't as bad as you portray but they aren't the pure angels they claim to be.

    Most of our jails are filled with people who violated drug laws, not illegal immigrants. If we are silly enough to jail someone who smokes pot, we deserve to be handed the bill. If drug use were legalized and controlled, money would come in ratther than go out. The United States has the largest percentage of people in jail of any first-world country as well as most third-world countries. Is that really worth it? That honor has nothing to do with immigrants.

    Indiana gets paid to house those out-of-state prisoners. It is a lucrative business and subsidizes the costs of running the few under-utilized jails under state control. Other prisoners who are shipped out of state are held in private for-profit jails that costs the hosting state nothing and are often sadistically run.
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    Re: Amnesty Plan

    No matter how you look at it lllegal aliens ARE criminals, and Mexico helps them cross the border.

    On another side of this, I wrote Rep. Dan Burton of Indiana and he replied, his reply surprised me as he said that he will not vote for any plan that gives illegals amnesty or citizenship without first going through the hoops, meaning they must speak English and pass the tests that others have had to in order to become citizens. He also stated the previous amnesty plans were complete failures, which is why he's aginst the presidents plans.

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    Poster Formerly Known as Michael Fanelli mwfanelli's Avatar
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    Re: Amnesty Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by JSPhoto
    No matter how you look at it lllegal aliens ARE criminals, and Mexico helps them cross the border.
    But they are not the type of criminals you portrayed them as.

    On another side of this, I wrote Rep. Dan Burton of Indiana and he replied, his reply surprised me as he said that he will not vote for any plan that gives illegals amnesty or citizenship without first going through the hoops, meaning they must speak English and pass the tests that others have had to in order to become citizens. He also stated the previous amnesty plans were complete failures, which is why he's aginst the presidents plans.
    He is right. Previous "deals" allowed citizenship for illegals but the border security part of the deals were never passed.

    First, secure the border and track down illegals. When that is COMPLETED and FULLY FUNDED, then allow southern-based immigrants to follow the same immigration procedure as everyone else. No special favors, no special laws to make things easier for certain groups of people.

    Just to add insult to injury, there is a college in Colorado that is advising illegal high schoolers on ways to get into New Mexico state colleges which, unbelievably, gives a total free ride to illegals who reside in the state. Even the term "resident" is loosly defined. Americans need not apply. Absolutely disgusting.
    "Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it." --Mark Twain

  23. #23
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    Re: Amnesty Plan

    My experience has been wholly different. I'm a cook by trade, and I deal with hispanics of varying legality on a daily basis - every day for the last 13 years. I've found them by-and-large to be hardworking individuals who do the jobs that most americans wouldn't want to do - dishwashers, night porters, busboys etc. They all work for legal wages (at least minimum wage) and they all pay taxes - they are deducted from their paychecks before they are cut, just like everyone else. They pay sales taxes, and I've never met one who lived off the State.

    Most restaurants could never afford to pay them more than they will work for, so that's money in american's pockets saved just on wages. The fact that most of them pay taxes, yet will never be eligible for social security or tax returns is money that illegal immigrants are pumping into the system for nothing in return. Of course the system isn't perfect, and of course it needs to be rebuilt from the ground up - but as long as we are talking about the effects of illegal immigration to the USA, we need to remember that they are footing OUR bills too. As I see it, it ends up a wash - quid pro quo.



    To imply that southern immigrants are criminals is an outright racist comment. Might as well be jews, or blacks, or gays, or muslims. Or whites. You probably don't see it that way, and I am not convinced that you mean it to be racist - I'm fully ready to be told that, and that is fine. I don't mean to say that I think anyone is a racist, only that the words written are flat out racist. We all have our moments where what we say or write are not interpreted the same way we had in mind.


    The way I see it, it is impossible to secure the border first - that isn't good for the US economy, our relationship with mexico, or the people stuck in the middle. Securing the border will only work if it is not exclusive - let them all in, but reform the immigration laws to better keep track of and document them, same as citizens are tracked and documented. The minute that we start talking about denying southern immigrants access to the states, we start talking about catastrophic damage to our economic system and a breakdown of international relations. It could all work, it's just a matter of not interupting the current balance while we work on getting everything documented and controled. The amnesty plan seems to be a ploy to do this same thing, except it is the lazy method and will likely cause more problems than it solves. It's the same theory behind the legalization of drugs - set up the system for it, and it won't be an issue anymore. The only way to get illegal immigrants to allow themselves to be universally documented is to give them no reason not to.
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    Poster Formerly Known as Michael Fanelli mwfanelli's Avatar
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    Re: Amnesty Plan

    Fine, I also know a lot of hispanics. So what? Yes, most work hard and pay taxes. OK. But the majority came to this country illegally. How many terrorists used the wide open Mexican border to get in? If there truly is a shortage of these workers then use and expand the existing foreign worker program as they do in high tech.

    Don't pull that stupid "racists" card with me. People who cross the border are ILLEGAL! Get it? They BROKE OUR LAWS. Get it? Someone who breaks the law is called a CRIMINAL. Get it? You know, it really is racist to say that our southern neighbors should get a free ride and special privilges when no one else in the world does. People who pull the race card out to shut people up deserve little or no respect.

    So, I suppose it would be perfectly OK for Americans to swarm over the Mexican border without documentation and take up residence. Hey, its cheaper, the weather is warmer, and what the hey, uncontroled immigration is something Mexico supports and facilitates, right? Mexico filed an official complaint when a couple of US workers on our border acidentally stepped 32 feet over the border! How absurd is that?

    We always talk about the southern border because that is where the problem is! How many Canadians are sneaking over the border illegally to work? How many French citizens are storming NYC harbor at night? How many Russians are swimming across the Bering Strait to get to the US? Get a grip on reality.

    No other country in the world allows indiscriminate border crossings. Why should we. And before you mention it, the huge numbers of immigrants in our county's past were LEGAL and went through the appropriate steps. Very few snuck in.
    "Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it." --Mark Twain

  25. #25
    Senior Shooter Greg McCary's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
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    Rome Ga.
    Posts
    10,550

    Re: Amnesty Plan

    I thought this might add some interest. I live about a hours drive from this Alabama town.

    http://www.al.com/news/birminghamnew...l=2&thispage=1
    I am like Barney Fife, I have a gun but Andy makes me keep the bullet in my pocket..

    Sony a99/a7R

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