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Thread: Amnesty Plan

  1. #26
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    Re: Amnesty Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by mwfanelli
    Fine, I also know a lot of hispanics.

    <>

    Very few snuck in.
    Whoa dude, calm down. That wasn't even directed at you. In fact, I agree with you on most of these points - including a viable solution. It was the whole immigrant/hard criminal thing that bugs me - illegal immigration is a far cry from rapist/murderer/drug dealer - and even you agreed to that!
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  2. #27
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    Re: Amnesty Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Sushigaijin

    1: Most restaurants could never afford to pay them more than they will work for, so that's money in american's pockets saved just on wages. The fact that most of them pay taxes, yet will never be eligible for social security or tax returns is money that illegal immigrants are pumping into the system for nothing in return.



    2: To imply that southern immigrants are criminals is an outright racist comment.

    3: The way I see it, it is impossible to secure the border first - that isn't good for the US economy, our relationship with mexico, or the people stuck in the middle. Securing the border will only work if it is not exclusive - let them all in, but reform the immigration laws to better keep track of and document them, same as citizens are tracked and documented. .
    #1 If you believe that then I have some land in Arizona to sell you! If a resturaunt owner can drive a $40K-$60K car and live in a $1m home they CAN afford to pay appropriate wages to CITIZENS of the US to do the job, instead they choose to pay little and pocket the remainder. I know a guy in California who owns two hot dog carts and a dumpy corner dinner and he makes $250K a year, yet hires hispanics because they will work cheap and he can afford the finer things in life and keep up partying every night. He drives a $100K car... courtesy of the hispanics who work for him....not one of which has a Green Card.

    2: If they do not have an ACTIVE Green Card they indeed ARE criminals - I don't know how that makes it a racist statement

    3: Impossible to close the borders? What are you smoking? We have plenty of ways to do it, we just need a president with the nads to do actually order it. How i s closing the borders going to hurt the US economy? It will HELP not only the economy but the countries security. Those who claim the illegalls will do jobs Americans won't are full of it, it's just an EXCUSE. Ask a homeless person if they would do that same job and they will say yes. The problem lies with those making money off hiring these illegals. I know one guy here who hires 20 Mexicans to every single American he hires. He pays the Americans $10 an hour , the Mexicans $6 and then he goes out and gambles the money saved or snorts it in the form of cocaine, meanwhile he has a $400K home, a $1m cabin and all kinds of cars and trucks. He admits he could hire just Americans but he'd have to cut out his gambling and drug use. There is a line of Americans wanting to work for him but he won't give in because the other things are more important than keeping Americans employed.... yeah, your idea is really helping the American economy, not too mention security.
    As for relations with Mexico, who gives a rats a$$ what the Mexican govt. thinks. They allow criminals to escape justice in the US, they allow criminals to rob, rape and kill Americans without doing anything about it. They do nothing to stop the flow of illegals and in fact encourage it and give them maps where to cross the border. So who cares if Mexican officials get pissed off, I'm pissed at them. They allow a child rapist to run free instead of face a trial..not to mention all the others they allow to hide safely and avoid punnishment for their crimes.. screw the Mexican government!
    And how is helping the US Economy when we pump billions of dollars into the Mexican ecomy and we get nothing but a bunch of illegals in return? The Mexican government just pockets those billions and doesn't use it for the purposes they are supposed to.
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  3. #28
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    Re: Amnesty Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by JSPhoto
    If the president insists they become citizens let them EARN IT and do it like France does. They have 2 years to learn the language and pass a WRITTEN TEST and a spoken test before they can become citizens.
    I immigrated to French Polynesia in the mid 70's and went through the hoops that the French Government made me jump through. At the time I started, I wasn't sure if it was worth the effort, along with the fact that for that 2 years I wasn't allowed to work. Once I received my Cartes Se Jour, I could apply for work, but if there was a local without a job that was qualified, I was denied.. Once I became a citizen everything changed as I was considered a local and all work positions were open without any restrictions other than abilities... I think that the French have the right idea!

    Just this old chief's 2

  4. #29
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    Re: Amnesty Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by maheanuu
    I immigrated to French Polynesia in the mid 70's and went through the hoops that the French Government made me jump through. At the time I started, I wasn't sure if it was worth the effort, along with the fact that for that 2 years I wasn't allowed to work. Once I received my Cartes Se Jour, I could apply for work, but if there was a local without a job that was qualified, I was denied.. Once I became a citizen everything changed as I was considered a local and all work positions were open without any restrictions other than abilities... I think that the French have the right idea!

    Just this old chief's 2

    Congratulations! I have RESPECT for those who DO follow the law and I have disdain for those who skirt the law, whether it's by illegally crossing the border or staying after your green card expired, there is no excuse.
    I agree, the French DO have the right idea, and it is one I would support, partly because there is no question the person EARNED the right to become a citizen. I hjave heard that the French require you to learn the language PLUS take a test as part of the requirements, and the test is in French.
    Here we cater left and right to Hispanics who REFUSE to learn English, and that has put an aweful strain on the budgets of schools who have to hire Spanish speaking teachers, police departments who have to hire Spanish speaking officers or interpreters, and for business it has forced them to go to Spanish ads and warning labels costing business millions.... an economic impact of major proportions that would be avoided if the leaders would just say enough is enough, learn English or go back to Mexico or whereever.

    Again, congratulations on your efforts, the 2 years must have been tough but you stuck with it and you succeded!

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  5. #30
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    Re: Amnesty Plan

    I've always thought that one of the greatest things about the USA is that you don't have to speak english, even though my command of spanish is woefully insufficient. The country was set up that way intentionally, it is an unamerican concept to force language upon people. In practice a national language might make things cheaper and easier, but it also undermines freedom and liberty - both things that I would rather not give up.

    There are some high-on-the-hog restaurant owners, but by and large they are humble, hardworking people who don't make a lot of money. I always joke that the owner is the worst job in the restaurant. Many of them have their houses on the line (if they even own one) and have invested too much time and effort, and possibly other people's money as well, to squander it away on fancy cars and drugs. So it is certainly possible that some of them are living it up, but please don't take that as an indictment to the general nature of my business - not all of us, in fact not most of us, are drug addled high rollers - most of us are just trying to scrape by.

    I've never EVER had a white american apply for a dishwashing or night porter job, even when they are posted in the newspaper in king's english. American jobless is an interesting sect of society, it is hard to generalize about why they are not working. Certainly some don't want to work, and would rather be jobless. Some are mentaly ill or physically handicaped in such a way where they cannot participate in mainstream society. Some are between living or working situations, and will work. Some have too many obligations at "home" to work, such as children or ailing relatives. That's a tough spot to generalize - I'd certainly hire an american for a classically hispanic job if they were qualified for it. I always offer the dishwashing job to recent culinary school graduates who come begging for work

    Those who will work it, tend to be better cooks and better employees than those who turn their noses.

    As a state participating in an increasingly globalized economy and intergovernmental society, it is imperative that the USA does not anger Mexico when dealing with the border situation. As geographic barriers are broken down, our success is inextricably entwined with Mexico - to try to live without them, or their labor, would be devastating to the US economy. It would be a bit like cutting the power lines because you don't want to pay the power company anymore.
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  6. #31
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    Re: Amnesty Plan

    Screw the Mexican govt, they get billions of US dollars and it winds up in the pockets of theiving officials instead of where it was intended to go. The govt refuses to turn over murders, rapists and other criminals who are hiding in Mexico from US justice. The Mexican govt does nothing to stop the flow of illegals, and as said before they HELP them. The worthless illegals (those who cross the boarder illegally or stay on expired Green Card) are draing US resources and breaking the budgets of schools and police departments. They are KILLING the US economy and not helping it.
    BTW, they just announced that one of your so called legal Green Card, tax paying Mexicans was busted driving semi and hauling 27 pounds of cocaine.... which he brought from Mexico. Once again it shows that these people have no respect for our laws or the freedoms we have. Now we taxpayers have to pay to keep this idiot locked up.
    At the same time we have what basically amounts to a drug war between blacks and Mexicans thats costing millions just here in Indiana. Daily we have pursuits when police try to stop a Mexican to give them a simple ticket and the idiots run. Crime in Indy has continually risen in direct proportion to the influx of Mexicans and others from South of the border (although 90% are Mexican).
    Also there is a 200% increase in hit and runs, and it is directly related to Hispanic drivers who for the most part do not have licesnes. This is a national problem as well.
    Indy has a huge jump in assaults this year, up 400% allmost exclusively in areas comprised of Hispanics
    We have warrants for a Mexican whos hiding in Mexico following a fatal hit and run and once again the Mexican govt. refuses to turn them over even though they know right where the guy is..... Screw the Mexican govt, who cares if we piss them off, close the borders and send the illegals back.... things will get MUCH better in this country once that is done.
    If something isn't done soon about this you WILL see another civil war, most Americans are fed up with high prices of fuel and taxes, one of the reasons for those tax hikes is directly related to the illegals to help police depts hire Spanish speaking officers and interpreters and for schools to hire Spanish speaking teachers and build bigger schools.
    It's also time to start jailing ALL business owners who hire illegals. No jobs and they won't cross the borders in hordes. Enough is enough....things will explode one day if the US govt. doesn't act fast to stop the flow and get the illegals out.... even the police are fed up.

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  7. #32
    Not-so-recent Nikon Convert livin4lax09's Avatar
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    Re: Amnesty Plan

    none of this drug war and transportation occurs between citizens of the US?

  8. #33
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    Re: Amnesty Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by livin4lax09
    none of this drug war and transportation occurs between citizens of the US?
    At this time the Mexicans are trying to take over the drug trade in Indy from the blacks. The situation is getting out of control. For the first two months of the year there were 2-3 shootings PER DAY in an area that there had been one a week. It was just these two groups involved in these and recent incidents, although many innocent victims were caught up in it too.

    Today while driving through downtown Indy, with a police car in front of me I watched a Mexican do a drug deal and the cop didn't budge. The cop just drove off.
    Sure there are whites and others dealing and transporting drugs, not the ways these new Mexican groups are operating though. And they wonder why a family was sjot to death last november, 7 killed over a bad drug deal, mostly kids.

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  9. #34
    Poster Formerly Known as Michael Fanelli mwfanelli's Avatar
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    Re: Amnesty Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Sushigaijin
    As a state participating in an increasingly globalized economy and intergovernmental society, it is imperative that the USA does not anger Mexico when dealing with the border situation. As geographic barriers are broken down, our success is inextricably entwined with Mexico - to try to live without them, or their labor, would be devastating to the US economy. It would be a bit like cutting the power lines because you don't want to pay the power company anymore.
    If the need for Mexican workers is so huge then the employers can be prove that and we can pass that oft-suggested worker visa program. However, that is not the problem. People who enter this country illegally should NOT be given a preference for these jobs. Allow Mexicans to apply and legally enter, round up the illegals and send them home banning them from future employment in this country. A person who disrespects our laws is not someone we want to welcome. In all other cases, criminals are thrown in jails. Illegals are given a free ride. That is why so many citizens are angry.

    Don't "anger Mexico"? Wow, you have to be kidding! Have we as a country lowered ourselves so much that we have to lick Mexican butt to survive? I hope not. Mexico is highly dependent on the the US, not the other way around. Although poorly stated by a poster above, the facts are simple: Mexico is riddled with corruption and crime in political circles. Most of the money generated by Mexico is wasted lining the pockets of a few. If Mexico fixed their corruption problems (rather than just making empty promises) and tried to use the money to create their own jobs in their own country, US citizens would not have as many problems with LEGAL Mexican workers in the US.

    Once again, you are making silly statements hoping they will eventually be taken as true. No matter how hard working these illegals are, they are still illegal. They thumbed their noses at our laws. No amount of hard work can't make up for that.
    "Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it." --Mark Twain

  10. #35
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    Re: Amnesty Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Sushigaijin
    I've always thought that one of the greatest things about the USA is that you don't have to speak english, even though my command of spanish is woefully insufficient. The country was set up that way intentionally, it is an unamerican concept to force language upon people. In practice a national language might make things cheaper and easier, but it also undermines freedom and liberty - both things that I would rather not give up.
    Eric, I disagree. The language you speak in public has nothing to do with freedom and liberty and everything to do with the society you're trying to mainstream into.

    You want to throw out "unamerican concepts," let me tell you what is unamerican. We have people entering this country illegally to find work. They don't know our language, and they don't plan on learning that language. Then they demand that we learn their language so we can communicate with them.

    What pisses me off the most is that when we want to send those who are here illegally back, they hold rallies and protests as if they are entitled to be here.

    It used to be that people would come to our country for a better life. They would spend the first couple of years in communities of their nationality learning our language and customs until they could become citizens.

    I've never EVER had a white american apply for a dishwashing or night porter job, even when they are posted in the newspaper in king's english. American jobless is an interesting sect of society, it is hard to generalize about why they are not working. Certainly some don't want to work, and would rather be jobless. Some are mentaly ill or physically handicaped in such a way where they cannot participate in mainstream society. Some are between living or working situations, and will work. Some have too many obligations at "home" to work, such as children or ailing relatives. That's a tough spot to generalize - I'd certainly hire an american for a classically hispanic job if they were qualified for it. I always offer the dishwashing job to recent culinary school graduates who come begging for work
    Today's youth is spoiled and lazy. They want the $10 an hour jobs "working" at some trendy place where they can hang out with their friends all day long. So of course they won't come applying for those jobs where they have to bus tables, wash dishes, or any sort of "manual labor."

    You also left out one category of people who don't want to work - the ones who sponge off of my tax dollars.

    As a state participating in an increasingly globalized economy and intergovernmental society, it is imperative that the USA does not anger Mexico when dealing with the border situation. As geographic barriers are broken down, our success is inextricably entwined with Mexico - to try to live without them, or their labor, would be devastating to the US economy. It would be a bit like cutting the power lines because you don't want to pay the power company anymore.
    Piss of Mexico? WTF? Dude, whatever you're smoking, I would like to buy a whole lot of it if it can distort my perceptions so much that we think Mexico actually matters.

    On a global scale, Mexico is nothing. If they weren't on our Southern border, we wouldn't even pay attention to them as there are more important nations that we need to be careful not to piss off.

    Like China, where most of our manufacturing is. Or the nations that have our oil supply by the balls. Or our friends in Europe, Japan, and even Russia. They matter more to us than some garbage dump on our southern border.

    The fact is, we can live without Mexico. We have enough people in this country to fill most jobs that hispanics fill now. The question is would Americans fill those jobs.
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  11. #36
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    Re: Amnesty Plan

    Alright, I think we need some clarification here. I'm not sure you will all agree with these, but this is the way I see it. This is an extremely conservative stance, but I'm not sure that easy solutions are evident in the situation.

    1) It is not good that we have illegal immigrants. Something has to be done to fix the transient nature of that status. What that solution is will not be as simple as closing the border and deporting those concerned. In the mean time, rest assured that EVERYONE pays taxes, even illegal immigrants. They are paying for your social security just as sure as you are.

    2) the USA cannot exist without illegal immigrants today. If they were all shipped away tomorrow morning, the entire country would shut down. they are inextricably linked with our workforce and our economy. An increase in employment of citizens will expand the underclass and stall economic growth. The economics of this makes my head hurt, but I do know that a real solution would enable those already working to continue working as the solution is realized, a poor solution would uproot the existing economic influx and create a void. Removing or changing any part of our economic structure is not a good thing. This is the same reason why states should not depose governments - look at the mess we've created when we removed the iraqi government.

    3) Closing the border to Mexico is a poor political move. Mexico is our second closest neighbor (by border length) and has been a solid political ally. Yes, they are dealing with some corruption, but it is only worse than USA's corruption because it is blatent. Political corruption in the states is just as widespread, except that it operates on the archetype of quid pro quo . A real solution here is to work with the Mexican government to reform their policies, not strong-arm them into submission. A lasting solution must be worked out between our states, and regardless of fences or mass deportations, illegal immigration will not stop until people don't want to immigrate illegally.

    4) National language mandates are a theoretical part of the USA's inception. It was considered then, and it is deliberate that we are not obligated to speak english. considering that over 13% of our population self identifies as hispanic, it is a small wonder that we didn't start catering to spanish speakers long ago. As our country moves to be more hispanic, we will likely see english being relegated to a secondary spot on labels and forms. Although some of us may not like that concept, the idea behind it is solid - as our population changes, so does the framework behind it. If hispanics become the majority, which they may, it makes sense that most of the language spoken may not be english. Locking into a mandated language now is short sighted and fails to take into account changing population trends. The USA would be held back if they failed to adjust to a changing populous. This is a similar reason to why most americans feel out of touch with their governments.

    Eh, I have to get up early in the morning - I'm sure this will be continued later.
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  12. #37
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    Re: Amnesty Plan - illegal bridge building

    Owner of steel company arrested for useing illegal immigrants to build bridges in three states, the illegals had falsified SSN #'s and were not properly certified as weldors.
    This is ANOTHER example of why we do not need these people here, they were not paying taxes, they were not going by the laws.

    http://www.sunherald.com/201/story/112962.html


    Eric, re-read my previous post, there is simply no excuse to allow these people to keep crossing our boarders, drain our economy or give a crap about what the Mexican Govt. thinks about it. Ship them all back shut down the border and let the Mexican Govt. deal with them, they created the problem, they can fix it....although the corruption in the Mexican Govt. would dry up in order to fix things there.

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  13. #38
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    Re: Amnesty Plan - illegal bridge building

    Quote Originally Posted by JSPhoto
    Owner of steel company arrested for useing illegal immigrants to build bridges in three states, the illegals had falsified SSN #'s and were not properly certified as weldors.
    I sure hope to heck that it wasn't illegals that were involved in the building of the bridge that just collapsed on I-35 in Minneapolis, that claimed a few lives.
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  14. #39
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    Re: Amnesty Plan - illegal bridge building

    Quote Originally Posted by Minnesota scroller
    I sure hope to heck that it wasn't illegals that were involved in the building of the bridge that just collapsed on I-35 in Minneapolis, that claimed a few lives.
    I doubt it, but you never know. That bridge was built 35 - 40 years ago and the illegals weren't as much of a problem then, although they were in border states in the Southwest.

    I think what they will find though is very poor maintenance and possibly some short cuts in original construction of the bridge, ala the walkway in a shopping center that collapsed killing 30 (?) several years back. They used improper cement mixture and lighter than spec steel in that one.

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  15. #40
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    Re: Amnesty Plan

    If they were using falsified SS#s, they WERE paying taxes but will never be able to claim governmental benefits - this is why we get money for nothing from illegal immigration. The most common way to "launder" payroll is to share SS#s, which means that several people pay taxes under one number but will never see anything in return. Quid pro quo, once again. The "drain" on US tax dollars is negligable once the gain from illegal SS# use is calculated.

    Just because an illegal activity isn't malevolent doesn't make it right - but finding a solution that is equally benign is important. Don't bring a gun to a knife fight.

    I'm also not going to defend these guys who are using "inappropriate certification." That is a whole different story, and they should be using people who are properly certified. The immigration status of the workers who are properly certified is not nearly as important as the certification. Illegals can do exactly the same job, given that they are both equally qualified.
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  16. #41
    Formerly Michael Fanelli, mwfanelli, mfa mwfanelli2's Avatar
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    Re: Amnesty Plan

    Don't bring a gun to a knife fight.
    Huh? How will I win?

  17. #42
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    Re: Amnesty Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by mwfanelli2
    Huh? How will I win?

    Don't bring a knife to a gun fight and don't bring a gun to a knife fight. I've always felt that was pretty straight forward.
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  18. #43
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    Re: Amnesty Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Sushigaijin
    Quid pro quo[/I], once again. The "drain" on US tax dollars is negligable once the gain from illegal SS# use is calculated.

    Illegals can do exactly the same job, given that they are both equally qualified.

    UH????? The drain by their being here illegally is costing US much more than the few who actually do pay taxes. They are getting free health care, free food stamps and free housing and and not to mention the costs of the 1,000's of crimes they commit yearly. There is NO WAY to justify the few that do pay taxes for the millions that are not. One estimate shows that 75% of the illegals pay NO TAXES at all, how does this even it out? Very very few illegals in Indiana even work, those that do 90% do not pay any taxes, they are a drain on the state and country....period.
    The family that lived across the street from me and finally moved hasn't paid a dime in taxes of any kind in the 12 years they have been in this state. His green card expired years ago, he remarried, and besides the two girls from his first marriage he now has a newborn. That babies prenatal care and birth was paid for by Indiana taxpayers, even though he works full time at a farm. The farmer doesn't pay his taxes as an employee. The two older girls are 13 and 7, both speak very little English, so the school district had to hire teachers JUST for these two girls. Now they moved they will go to another school district, and now that school district has to hire two new teachers while the other school district is stuck paying a salerie to two teachers they no longer need. Add to it that this family also gets food stamps because he can show no visible income.
    These people do not need to be parents, they never keep track of the kids. One morning last year the now 7 year old was home alone. I was working in my back yard when she walked up and sat down on a trailer and just sat there for two hours until the neighbor kids got home from school because mom would pay attention to her. Is it no wonder these kids will be pregnant before they get married....and a further drain on our economy? No, they are killing the countries economy and until people start realizing this they will continue to do so. As long as they can continue to scam the Americans they will.

    JS
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  19. #44
    Jedi Master masdog's Avatar
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    Re: Amnesty Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Sushigaijin
    Don't bring a knife to a gun fight and don't bring a gun to a knife fight. I've always felt that was pretty straight forward.
    I've always thought that you do bring a gun to a knife fight, because then the other poor sucker was dumb enough to bring a knife to a gunfight.
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  20. #45
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    Re: Amnesty Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by JSPhoto
    One estimate shows that 75% of the illegals pay NO TAXES at all,
    What estimate is that? Who made that estimate? If they are working, they are paying taxes. Everyone pays taxes.

    There is a minority that work for cash - day laborers, hired by contractors for a project or the day, who do not pay income tax. They do pay sales tax, sin tax, and all the other day-to-day taxes. A lot of legal citizens do the exact same thing though, it is not a symptom of illegal immigration and is not exclusive to illegal immigrants. I'll give you a small percentage there, but no where near 75%. Maybe more like 5-8%. MAYBE.

    another quote from your post: "Very very few illegals in Indiana even work" where does that information come from? Surely you can back that up with some hard evidence. A link to a source would be great.

    I'm sorry that you have had such bad luck with your neighbors, but please realize that they are not indicative of most illegal immigrants. There are people living on welfare everywhere, and for every reason. Those who are abusing it are not necessarily illegal immigrants though - there are people who will abuse the system in every caste.
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  21. #46
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    Re: Amnesty Plan

    Here's a quote from the CATO institute, a conservative think tank.

    http://www.cato.org/dailys/4-22-97.html

    "Myth number four: Immigrants impose a financial burden on taxpayers. Immigrants do make somewhat heavier use of means-tested welfare programs than natives. There have been especially flagrant abuses by immigrants of particular welfare programs, such as Supplemental Security Income. But because immigrants tend to come to the United States during the start of their working years --between the ages of 18 and 35 -- they make very large net contributions to the two largest income transfer programs: Social Security and Medicare. When the payroll tax contributions of immigrants are taken into account, the Urban Institute found that the foreign born constitute a net fiscal windfall to the public sector of some $20 billion a year. To the extent that welfare use by immigrants is a problem, this can be addressed by restricting the welfare eligibility of immigrants, not by keeping immigrants out. "

    That's $20 Billion EXTRA in taxpayer's pockets. According to the conservatives. They even offer a reasonable answer to the "leech" problem.

    And here is a University professor (a liberal, no doubt by the tone of the paper) who says basicly the same thing.

    http://academic.udayton.edu/race/02rights/guadalu4.htm

    The ones who are saying otherwise (and there ARE people who say otherwise) are almost unanimously the radical right, and are pretty slow to offer any kind of facts or statistics. in fact, this one even offers that I shouldn't check the statistics.

    http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a3b30c0535a05.htm

    "You don't have to look at statistics -- just visit the maternal ward..."

    Well thanks very much free republic, I think I'll just stick to the facts.
    Erik Williams

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  22. #47
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    Re: Amnesty Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Sushigaijin
    What estimate is that? Who made that estimate? If they are working, they are paying taxes. Everyone pays taxes.

    There is a minority that work for cash - day laborers, hired by contractors for a project or the day, who do not pay income tax. .
    You are REALLY blind to the facts. Illegals are those who are without legal documentation, whether they snuck across the boarder or stayed after their green cards expired. These people, very few of which use forged documents work illegally for people who hire them and pay under the table, just because they work DOESN'T mean they are paying taxes, in fact the majority of the 20 million illegals are paid under the table as paying taxes draws the attention of the Feds. Thats what got the attention of the Feds in the bridge incident. That 10% that are paying taxes are the ones who get caught like the 77 illegals working on the bridge projects, 26 of who worked for the guy from NC. They were found because they used false documents.

    Most of those who are working are doing so through employers who pay under the table, ones like a guy in Indy who has the same Mexicans working for him for the past 12 years and they work 6 days a week for the money of an American citizen doing jobs that Americans WOULD do if the guy wasn't so cheap and money hungry. Maybe you need to open your eyes to what is really going on with these people, it's obvious your missing a lot. As for this guy, he has some 60+ Mexicans working for him rehabing homes. These guys are doing jobs such drywall and carpentry, electrical (without training no less) plumbing and more. I once saw one job they did where the plumbing ran right next to a 200Amp service. I can see it now, some poor sucker buys this home, has to reset a breaker and slips as he resets it and grabs the water line as his other hand hits the open service panel (because they never put the covers on. The guy is so cheap hje doesn't get permits for the renovations, not even for plumbing and electrical. Of course the Mexicans won't tell on him because they would get deported.... but hey, he can afford to go gamble and do his coke (which he buys from one of his Mexican "employees"). It's nothing for him to work them 14 hours a day, and he isn't the only one, it's nationwide, and not just in that business, it's all of them. And no, he doesn't pay OT or vacation or anything, although he may buy a beer now and then.

    BTW, I always take a gun to a knife fight, and a bigger gun to a gun fight :thumbsup:

    JS
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  23. #48
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    Re: Amnesty Plan

    I feel like most, if you are here illegal then you should be sent back.
    But then, a mexican family lives in the apartment house next to where
    I live. They are a hard working family and are very nice people.
    But, this family is legal and that makes all the difference.
    But one person said that all the illegals take the jobs that no one else
    wants is not all true. I am a carpenter and in Cincinnati Ohio, there
    was a crack down on one big builder. When the agents came onto a
    job site, you seen about 15 illegals take off from the site.
    These people can do things that I am not allowed to do because of
    safety. My company has to provide safe working condition while the
    company that hires these illegal aliens don't. So, they hire cheap
    labor, don't provide a safe working conditions and still bid the
    job at the same price as the company I work for.
    I feel if that all illegals should be given a free ticket back to their
    country and make the employer that hired them, pay for all the lost
    money that our country incurred.

  24. #49
    Member big baldo's Avatar
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    Re: Amnesty Plan

    You are REALLY blind to the facts. Illegals are those who are without legal documentation, whether they snuck across the boarder or stayed after their green cards expired. These people, very few of which use forged documents work illegally for people who hire them and pay under the table, just because they work DOESN'T mean they are paying taxes, in fact the majority of the 20 million illegals are paid under the table as paying taxes draws the attention of the Feds. Thats what got the attention of the Feds in the bridge incident. That 10% that are paying taxes are the ones who get caught like the 77 illegals working on the bridge projects, 26 of who worked for the guy from NC. They were found because they used false documents.
    I dont know where you get your facts but that is NOT the way it works. It is impossible to run a successful company and pay employees under the table. It just doesnt work that way.Where do you come up with the stats, "in fact the majority of the 20 million illegals are paid under the table". THIS IS NOT TRUE!!!!!!! You are misstating facts.Do you really think that employers are handing out cash to their employees? I'm sure there are examples where the small guy has a helper that he is paying under the table. That has been going on forever.Even with good 'ol American boys. Most companies either use a payroll company or the labor pool, who then take out taxes, unemployment taxes, verify SS#, etc.
    I dont think you understand what would happen if we did "load 'em up and ship 'em out". You say that they are destroying our economy, which doesnt make sense to me. If an employer, who gets their employees from labor or payroll, suddenly loses all their employees who do the dirty work, where does that leave us? If no one else would work for those wages, then WE will have to pay more to offset to cost. These "money hungry" farmers will lose all their workers, which will immediately effect consumers.How does that help the economy? .
    Yes, I agree that something needs to be done. Everyone who enters the country has to be documented, but the "load 'em up and ship 'em out" is naive.
    Life's a garden, Dig it. -Joe Dirt

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