Amnesty Plan

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  • 05-18-2007, 03:53 PM
    mwfanelli
    Amnesty Plan
    It appears that dubya is on the way to getting his immagration wish fufilled with the help of the doofus Democratic congress. Their plan to get control of illegal immigration? Simple: massive amnesty. Illegal? No problem! Just line up here and get legal the simple way!

    So, how many terrorists have already entered the US through our open southern border? Why was the last immigration crackdown imposed on the Canadian border?

    Does anyone even care?
  • 05-18-2007, 09:40 PM
    JSPhoto
    Re: Amnesty Plan
    I care, it pisses me off when I see our govt. give money away to people who don't speak the language, don't want to, and plain refuse to, yet we have AMERICANS living on the streets, children starving and we can't help them, but you can give an illegal $40,000 and credit cards to buy homes and cars.

    I have some ilegals living across the street from me. The father works as cheap farm labor. One day last spring their then 6 year old daughter shows up at my house one noon all alone. She got home from kindergarten and no one was home, she hadn't eaten that day. The house they live in WAS nice, now the doors are all torn up and it's pretty much trashed inside and out. They recently had a 3rd daughter. They basically live rent free because they have big parties all weekend and can't afford the rent They blast the music so loud I can hear it IN my house over the TV at 1am. And of course the parents will not learn English. They got the county to buy them a fairly new van, they have a pickup truck and three cars as well and only the father has a license. Now how the hell does this guy get a license without a birth cert, SS card or any form of ID? The state won't gie me one without SS card and birth cert and a third form of ID!

    I say ship them ALL back where they came from!
    If the president insists they become citizens let them EARN IT and do it like France does. They have 2 years to learn the language and pass a WRITTEN TEST and a spoken test before they can become citizens.
    There are those who the US was built by foreigners, true, but they earned their citizenship and didn't get anything handed to them, we didn't have to hire special teachers in our public schools just to teach the Spanish speaking kids who refused to learn English, and we didn't have to have Spansh language ads and package lables for those who didn't learn the language.

    It's another case of the degrading of America, and Indianapolis is quickly learning that supporting these people is dangerous business as Mexican gangs are trying to move into the city and take over drug dealing and other criminal activity. And there isn't a day that goes by that I don't hear on the scanner an officer asking for a Spanish interpriter.
    Murders are way up in Indy this year, as are shootings and it is due to the drug war between black and Hispanic gangs. Police chases are way up too, and most now involve Hispanics here. They have now started a special task force just to deal with Hispanic related crime....funded by our tax dollars, both federal and state.
    The worst part is their own country is spending millions giving them directions of how to get into the US. We first need to cut ALL funds off to Mexico, and then send the illegals back to them. If it takes putting troops on the border to keep them out so be it.

    As for the Northern border, yeah, we should keep those crazy Canadians out of the US :rolleyes:
    JS
  • 05-19-2007, 06:06 PM
    Copy_Kot
    Re: Amnesty Plan
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by mwfanelli
    Does anyone even care?

    Well if they don't now, they will soon.

    Who do you complain too? A dem who wants a bigger voting base, or a rep who wants cheap labor? Our politicians are sending us to hell in a hand-basket.
  • 05-24-2007, 08:17 PM
    JSPhoto
    Re: Amnesty Plan
    Once again a Hispanic here in the Indy area shows why they cannot be allowed to stay. He kidnapped and raped a 7 year old girl. He actually climbed through a third floor balcony and took her from her bed and then to his apartment next door. He is now in jail, facing a 100 year sentence.
    Apparently he was a known child molester in Mexico.
    One thing that worries me is the fact that many of these illegals are known criminals in Mexico and are being told to leave the country, even getting assistance from the Mexican govt. to cross the border. It's been known that the Mexican govt. has given illegals maps showing where to cross the border. They are sending the criminals and poor to here for us to deal with, and Bush and his cronies are playing right into the Mexican govts hands.

    JS
  • 05-27-2007, 01:39 AM
    schrackman
    Re: Amnesty Plan
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by mwfanelli
    It appears that dubya is on the way to getting his immagration wish fufilled with the help of the doofus Democratic congress. Their plan to get control of illegal immigration? Simple: massive amnesty. Illegal? No problem! Just line up here and get legal the simple way!

    So, how many terrorists have already entered the US through our open southern border? Why was the last immigration crackdown imposed on the Canadian border?

    Does anyone even care?

    Hey Michael, I think we found something that we completely agree upon!! It's hard to imagine that with all the alledged concern over America's safety from both parties that they both are willing to just ignore what laws we already have on the books. What a waste of our taxpayers' money for them to even sit around and debate this issue when the laws are already made and made clear. They could be spending their time on other important things while letting our border officials freely enforce the laws we already have.
  • 05-27-2007, 04:05 PM
    mwfanelli
    Re: Amnesty Plan
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by schrackman
    Hey Michael, I think we found something that we completely agree upon!! It's hard to imagine that with all the alledged concern over America's safety from both parties that they both are willing to just ignore what laws we already have on the books. What a waste of our taxpayers' money for them to even sit around and debate this issue when the laws are already made and made clear. They could be spending their time on other important things while letting our border officials freely enforce the laws we already have.

    What really stinks is that this new amnesty plan applies only to those crossing the border from countries to the south, mostly Mexico. Everyone else, from Swedes to Koreans to Austrailians to Polish etc. are still required to go through the long and in-depth citizenship process. No citizenship tests for these peoples, no requirements to learn English, no nothing. Just pay $5000 and get citizenship. This is sickening.

    As for some of the other comments, I don't agree with them. If you have never rented a property to college girls you have no idea what property destruction looks like! Illegals can be criminals but no more or less than the general US population. An example here and there does not create a generalized rule.
  • 05-27-2007, 07:18 PM
    JSPhoto
    Re: Amnesty Plan
    Don't forget, the US Govt...aka TAXPAYERS will pay the $5k PLUS up to $40k to "get them a start".....and they can get WELFARE without doing anything, don't even have to try and get a job. They normally use the 40k for things like a few months rent, new car or truck, stereo and TV's (big screen of course). And around here they normally use whats left to get started dealing drugs.....
    The family across the street hasn't paid rent since last Oct. Due to laws protecting them they cannot be thrown out on the streets, but it's OK to do that to citizens of the US ....and their children.

    JS
  • 05-31-2007, 01:01 AM
    almo
    Re: Amnesty Plan
    I care, but unless the whole of this country is ready to pursue and armed uprising then what is the f***ing point. Politicians stopped listening to us long ago. This country has spoken up in an almost overwhelming manner to say NO, and still they plot ahead with it. Wake up friends, there is no longer a United States. Not the one we thought we were being given anyway. Thanks a lot boomers.
  • 05-31-2007, 04:14 AM
    Greg McCary
    Re: Amnesty Plan
    I think that the Gov't is looking at it from only on side. It's the only way to make the illegals pay taxes. It's all about money. But I think that most of the past Presidents have done this? You can't really force them back, so might as well make them tax payers..... But I must agree we need to patrol our border"s" better, the situation is beyond out of control.
  • 05-31-2007, 04:29 AM
    almo
    Re: Amnesty Plan
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Greg McCary
    I think that the Gov't is looking at it from only on side. It's the only way to make the illegals pay taxes. It's all about money. But I think that most of the past Presidents have done this? You can't really force them back, so might as well make them tax payers..... But I must agree we need to patrol our border"s" better, the situation is beyond out of control.

    Close my friend, but no banana. Votes is what it's all about. Dems wants to legalize them because they believe they will get their votes, and the GOPs want to legalize them because they are afraid that if they show up on the "wrong" side of the issue they won't get any of the votes from the illegals, but more importantly, they believe that it will have an adverse affect on the opinions of an American Hispanic minority that traditionally has voted conservatively. It's all about the maintenance of power.

    Money, well sure, but think about this Greg, they vast majority of these people will never make more than 10k a year. That is below the federally mandated poverty line, and therefore, they will never actually pay income taxes.
  • 06-07-2007, 02:25 PM
    JSPhoto
    Re: Amnesty Plan
    Not so certain now! The Senate shot the bill down today :D Now the INS can get back to work deporting the illegals. :thumbsup:

    JS
  • 06-08-2007, 07:25 AM
    mwfanelli
    Re: Amnesty Plan
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by JSPhoto
    Not so certain now! The Senate shot the bill down today :D Now the INS can get back to work deporting the illegals. :thumbsup:

    JS

    Other than the fact that the work of the INS hardly ever involves deporting anyone. Worse yet, another state (forgot which one) is starting to issue state IDs and drivers licenses to illegals.

    Hey, Congress and the administration are just too busy stemming the tide of illegal Canadians with sophisticated high-tech toys to get around to doing anything except general amnesty to protect our southern border.
  • 06-24-2007, 11:56 PM
    JSPhoto
    Re: Amnesty Plan
    Well it's no wonder the illegals are still around, even AFTER being arrested for crimes here, a judge, in all his wisdom ordered a guy from El Salvadore to report for deportation on a certain date (last year) and tonight the State Police found him and that there was a warrant for deportation for failure to appear for his flight. What judge in his right mind thinks for a minute that these people are actually going to show up for a deportation flight? It's cheaper to stick them on the next flight out of the country than keep them locked up, and safer than letting them back on the streets. Who knows what this guy has done since he skipped his flight, but I don't think he will miss the next flight :D

    JS
  • 06-30-2007, 10:13 PM
    Frog
    Re: Amnesty Plan
    I hate to even talk about this because it gets my blood boiling.
    I know almost all of us are descended from immigrants but I believe it is time to stop ALL immigration except for those who are oppressed by their governments.
    Mexico has plenty of resources to have a stable economy but they don't seem to be able to stop their own corruption.
  • 07-01-2007, 11:49 AM
    mwfanelli
    Re: Amnesty Plan
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Frog
    I hate to even talk about this because it gets my blood boiling.
    I know almost all of us are descended from immigrants but I believe it is time to stop ALL immigration except for those who are oppressed by their governments.
    Mexico has plenty of resources to have a stable economy but they don't seem to be able to stop their own corruption.

    Yep, almost all of us are children of immigrants. But there is one major difference: our immigrant ancestors were LEGAL immigrants, respected our laws, learned English, and were proud to be Americans. They didn't run around waving the flags of their "old country" and bragging, in languages other than English which they never bothered to learn, how they scammed the US. If Mexico controlled their wild and uncontrolled corruption, there would be plenty of money to create a Mexican economy to support Mexican citizens.
  • 07-02-2007, 05:03 PM
    Greg McCary
    Re: Amnesty Plan
    Certainly something has got to be done. But on a sad note I have a friend who has been trying to become a US citizen since he arrived in 92. He is here on a work pass and pays taxes. He works a high paid job and works all over the east coast installing wireless networks for hotels.He reads writes and speaks english.He is one computer wizard too. He has a US girlfriend and plans to marry after he becomes a citizen. He could easily marry and be one overnight.
    Georgia has recently passed laws that will effect him. He will lose his drivers license as soon as they expire and when his work pass expires could be deported. It is ashame that someone who works as hard as he does and is a positive member of society faces these issues. He hasn't said but I am sure he will finally get married to stay here.
    His employers have written letters to congressman and he still waits.
    He also has a brother that owns a local garage and is a top notch mechanic that faces the same problem. The Nissan Dealership here in town farms out the cars they can't get to to his brother. Wow, isn't our government wonderful sometimes. If my friend could dunk a basketball, was over 7ft tall and was from China he might have a better chance.
    Greg
  • 07-03-2007, 06:43 AM
    mwfanelli
    Re: Amnesty Plan
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Greg McCary
    Certainly something has got to be done. But on a sad note I have a friend who has been trying to become a US citizen since he arrived in 92. He is here on a work pass and pays taxes. He works a high paid job and works all over the east coast installing wireless networks for hotels.He reads writes and speaks english.He is one computer wizard too. He has a US girlfriend and plans to marry after he becomes a citizen. He could easily marry and be one overnight.
    Georgia has recently passed laws that will effect him. He will lose his drivers license as soon as they expire and when his work pass expires could be deported. It is ashame that someone who works as hard as he does and is a positive member of society faces these issues. He hasn't said but I am sure he will finally get married to stay here.
    His employers have written letters to congressman and he still waits.
    He also has a brother that owns a local garage and is a top notch mechanic that faces the same problem. The Nissan Dealership here in town farms out the cars they can't get to to his brother. Wow, isn't our government wonderful sometimes. If my friend could dunk a basketball, was over 7ft tall and was from China he might have a better chance.
    Greg

    This is the problem. Bush and Congress want to reward those who broke our laws with amnesty and citizenship while those who follow the legal process are forced to go through every tedious step.
  • 07-03-2007, 02:18 PM
    Greg McCary
    Re: Amnesty Plan
    The Governor here in Georgia has really made it plain illegals are not welcome. The laws here in Georgia are getting tougher. I think Georgia is one of the only states that will that will stop illegals from driveing. But I have always said if you lock up the ones who hire them the problem would go away almost overnight. I just hate it that my friend faces what he does. He is one class act and his brother is too.
  • 07-04-2007, 08:58 PM
    JSPhoto
    Re: Amnesty Plan
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by mwfanelli
    This is the problem. Bush and Congress want to reward those who broke our laws with amnesty and citizenship while those who follow the legal process are forced to go through every tedious step.

    What do you expect from a criminal but to allow more criminals into the country and give them freedom to do what they want. He commuted his buddy from his prison sentence and he wants to flood the US with more criminals.

    This is a big business 1: the allowing the illegals to stay and commit crimes helps create a bigger police presense on our streets...aka Police State 2: employers who hire them make more money for themselves by not paying the going rates or payroll taxes 3: they need bigger jails to house more criminals - jails are big business, the more inmates you have the more federal money you get....and the fewer rights you and I have because they keep making new laws to arrest more people.
    By putting Americans out of work they also force them to commit crimes, especially low income people. Here in Indiana we have one prison thats not at capacity, and to help add to it's inmate count they bring prisoners from Arizona. A few weeks ago they rioted. It's just a never ending circus, the jails are so full they want to build bigger and bigger jails. They release too many early or accidentally, and it normally has tragic resluts.
  • 07-10-2007, 07:47 AM
    mwfanelli
    Re: Amnesty Plan
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by JSPhoto
    What do you expect from a criminal but to allow more criminals into the country and give them freedom to do what they want. He commuted his buddy from his prison sentence and he wants to flood the US with more criminals.

    This is a big business 1: the allowing the illegals to stay and commit crimes helps create a bigger police presense on our streets...aka Police State 2: employers who hire them make more money for themselves by not paying the going rates or payroll taxes 3: they need bigger jails to house more criminals - jails are big business, the more inmates you have the more federal money you get....and the fewer rights you and I have because they keep making new laws to arrest more people.
    By putting Americans out of work they also force them to commit crimes, especially low income people. Here in Indiana we have one prison thats not at capacity, and to help add to it's inmate count they bring prisoners from Arizona. A few weeks ago they rioted. It's just a never ending circus, the jails are so full they want to build bigger and bigger jails. They release too many early or accidentally, and it normally has tragic resluts.

    Most immigrants are not criminals who need to be locked up. But they claim that they are not criminals at all. Of course they are, they broke our immigration laws! They aren't as bad as you portray but they aren't the pure angels they claim to be.

    Most of our jails are filled with people who violated drug laws, not illegal immigrants. If we are silly enough to jail someone who smokes pot, we deserve to be handed the bill. If drug use were legalized and controlled, money would come in ratther than go out. The United States has the largest percentage of people in jail of any first-world country as well as most third-world countries. Is that really worth it? That honor has nothing to do with immigrants.

    Indiana gets paid to house those out-of-state prisoners. It is a lucrative business and subsidizes the costs of running the few under-utilized jails under state control. Other prisoners who are shipped out of state are held in private for-profit jails that costs the hosting state nothing and are often sadistically run.
    .
  • 07-18-2007, 10:37 PM
    JSPhoto
    Re: Amnesty Plan
    No matter how you look at it lllegal aliens ARE criminals, and Mexico helps them cross the border.

    On another side of this, I wrote Rep. Dan Burton of Indiana and he replied, his reply surprised me as he said that he will not vote for any plan that gives illegals amnesty or citizenship without first going through the hoops, meaning they must speak English and pass the tests that others have had to in order to become citizens. He also stated the previous amnesty plans were complete failures, which is why he's aginst the presidents plans.

    JS
  • 07-19-2007, 08:09 AM
    mwfanelli
    Re: Amnesty Plan
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by JSPhoto
    No matter how you look at it lllegal aliens ARE criminals, and Mexico helps them cross the border.

    But they are not the type of criminals you portrayed them as.

    Quote:

    On another side of this, I wrote Rep. Dan Burton of Indiana and he replied, his reply surprised me as he said that he will not vote for any plan that gives illegals amnesty or citizenship without first going through the hoops, meaning they must speak English and pass the tests that others have had to in order to become citizens. He also stated the previous amnesty plans were complete failures, which is why he's aginst the presidents plans.
    He is right. Previous "deals" allowed citizenship for illegals but the border security part of the deals were never passed.

    First, secure the border and track down illegals. When that is COMPLETED and FULLY FUNDED, then allow southern-based immigrants to follow the same immigration procedure as everyone else. No special favors, no special laws to make things easier for certain groups of people.

    Just to add insult to injury, there is a college in Colorado that is advising illegal high schoolers on ways to get into New Mexico state colleges which, unbelievably, gives a total free ride to illegals who reside in the state. Even the term "resident" is loosly defined. Americans need not apply. Absolutely disgusting.
  • 07-21-2007, 11:52 AM
    Sushigaijin
    Re: Amnesty Plan
    My experience has been wholly different. I'm a cook by trade, and I deal with hispanics of varying legality on a daily basis - every day for the last 13 years. I've found them by-and-large to be hardworking individuals who do the jobs that most americans wouldn't want to do - dishwashers, night porters, busboys etc. They all work for legal wages (at least minimum wage) and they all pay taxes - they are deducted from their paychecks before they are cut, just like everyone else. They pay sales taxes, and I've never met one who lived off the State.

    Most restaurants could never afford to pay them more than they will work for, so that's money in american's pockets saved just on wages. The fact that most of them pay taxes, yet will never be eligible for social security or tax returns is money that illegal immigrants are pumping into the system for nothing in return. Of course the system isn't perfect, and of course it needs to be rebuilt from the ground up - but as long as we are talking about the effects of illegal immigration to the USA, we need to remember that they are footing OUR bills too. As I see it, it ends up a wash - quid pro quo.



    To imply that southern immigrants are criminals is an outright racist comment. Might as well be jews, or blacks, or gays, or muslims. Or whites. You probably don't see it that way, and I am not convinced that you mean it to be racist - I'm fully ready to be told that, and that is fine. I don't mean to say that I think anyone is a racist, only that the words written are flat out racist. We all have our moments where what we say or write are not interpreted the same way we had in mind.


    The way I see it, it is impossible to secure the border first - that isn't good for the US economy, our relationship with mexico, or the people stuck in the middle. Securing the border will only work if it is not exclusive - let them all in, but reform the immigration laws to better keep track of and document them, same as citizens are tracked and documented. The minute that we start talking about denying southern immigrants access to the states, we start talking about catastrophic damage to our economic system and a breakdown of international relations. It could all work, it's just a matter of not interupting the current balance while we work on getting everything documented and controled. The amnesty plan seems to be a ploy to do this same thing, except it is the lazy method and will likely cause more problems than it solves. It's the same theory behind the legalization of drugs - set up the system for it, and it won't be an issue anymore. The only way to get illegal immigrants to allow themselves to be universally documented is to give them no reason not to.
  • 07-21-2007, 02:14 PM
    mwfanelli
    Re: Amnesty Plan
    Fine, I also know a lot of hispanics. So what? Yes, most work hard and pay taxes. OK. But the majority came to this country illegally. How many terrorists used the wide open Mexican border to get in? If there truly is a shortage of these workers then use and expand the existing foreign worker program as they do in high tech.

    Don't pull that stupid "racists" card with me. People who cross the border are ILLEGAL! Get it? They BROKE OUR LAWS. Get it? Someone who breaks the law is called a CRIMINAL. Get it? You know, it really is racist to say that our southern neighbors should get a free ride and special privilges when no one else in the world does. People who pull the race card out to shut people up deserve little or no respect.

    So, I suppose it would be perfectly OK for Americans to swarm over the Mexican border without documentation and take up residence. Hey, its cheaper, the weather is warmer, and what the hey, uncontroled immigration is something Mexico supports and facilitates, right? Mexico filed an official complaint when a couple of US workers on our border acidentally stepped 32 feet over the border! How absurd is that?

    We always talk about the southern border because that is where the problem is! How many Canadians are sneaking over the border illegally to work? How many French citizens are storming NYC harbor at night? How many Russians are swimming across the Bering Strait to get to the US? Get a grip on reality.

    No other country in the world allows indiscriminate border crossings. Why should we. And before you mention it, the huge numbers of immigrants in our county's past were LEGAL and went through the appropriate steps. Very few snuck in.
  • 07-21-2007, 06:18 PM
    Greg McCary
    Re: Amnesty Plan
    I thought this might add some interest. I live about a hours drive from this Alabama town.

    http://www.al.com/news/birminghamnew...l=2&thispage=1
  • 07-21-2007, 10:30 PM
    Sushigaijin
    Re: Amnesty Plan
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by mwfanelli
    Fine, I also know a lot of hispanics.

    <<snip>>

    Very few snuck in.

    Whoa dude, calm down. That wasn't even directed at you. In fact, I agree with you on most of these points - including a viable solution. It was the whole immigrant/hard criminal thing that bugs me - illegal immigration is a far cry from rapist/murderer/drug dealer - and even you agreed to that!
  • 08-02-2007, 02:22 PM
    JSPhoto
    Re: Amnesty Plan
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Sushigaijin

    1: Most restaurants could never afford to pay them more than they will work for, so that's money in american's pockets saved just on wages. The fact that most of them pay taxes, yet will never be eligible for social security or tax returns is money that illegal immigrants are pumping into the system for nothing in return.



    2: To imply that southern immigrants are criminals is an outright racist comment.

    3: The way I see it, it is impossible to secure the border first - that isn't good for the US economy, our relationship with mexico, or the people stuck in the middle. Securing the border will only work if it is not exclusive - let them all in, but reform the immigration laws to better keep track of and document them, same as citizens are tracked and documented. .

    #1 If you believe that then I have some land in Arizona to sell you! If a resturaunt owner can drive a $40K-$60K car and live in a $1m home they CAN afford to pay appropriate wages to CITIZENS of the US to do the job, instead they choose to pay little and pocket the remainder. I know a guy in California who owns two hot dog carts and a dumpy corner dinner and he makes $250K a year, yet hires hispanics because they will work cheap and he can afford the finer things in life and keep up partying every night. He drives a $100K car... courtesy of the hispanics who work for him....not one of which has a Green Card.

    2: If they do not have an ACTIVE Green Card they indeed ARE criminals - I don't know how that makes it a racist statement

    3: Impossible to close the borders? What are you smoking? We have plenty of ways to do it, we just need a president with the nads to do actually order it. How i s closing the borders going to hurt the US economy? It will HELP not only the economy but the countries security. Those who claim the illegalls will do jobs Americans won't are full of it, it's just an EXCUSE. Ask a homeless person if they would do that same job and they will say yes. The problem lies with those making money off hiring these illegals. I know one guy here who hires 20 Mexicans to every single American he hires. He pays the Americans $10 an hour , the Mexicans $6 and then he goes out and gambles the money saved or snorts it in the form of cocaine, meanwhile he has a $400K home, a $1m cabin and all kinds of cars and trucks. He admits he could hire just Americans but he'd have to cut out his gambling and drug use. There is a line of Americans wanting to work for him but he won't give in because the other things are more important than keeping Americans employed.... yeah, your idea is really helping the American economy, not too mention security.
    As for relations with Mexico, who gives a rats a$$ what the Mexican govt. thinks. They allow criminals to escape justice in the US, they allow criminals to rob, rape and kill Americans without doing anything about it. They do nothing to stop the flow of illegals and in fact encourage it and give them maps where to cross the border. So who cares if Mexican officials get pissed off, I'm pissed at them. They allow a child rapist to run free instead of face a trial..not to mention all the others they allow to hide safely and avoid punnishment for their crimes.. screw the Mexican government!
    And how is helping the US Economy when we pump billions of dollars into the Mexican ecomy and we get nothing but a bunch of illegals in return? The Mexican government just pockets those billions and doesn't use it for the purposes they are supposed to.
    JS
  • 08-02-2007, 10:19 PM
    maheanuu
    Re: Amnesty Plan
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by JSPhoto
    If the president insists they become citizens let them EARN IT and do it like France does. They have 2 years to learn the language and pass a WRITTEN TEST and a spoken test before they can become citizens.

    I immigrated to French Polynesia in the mid 70's and went through the hoops that the French Government made me jump through. At the time I started, I wasn't sure if it was worth the effort, along with the fact that for that 2 years I wasn't allowed to work. Once I received my Cartes Se Jour, I could apply for work, but if there was a local without a job that was qualified, I was denied.. Once I became a citizen everything changed as I was considered a local and all work positions were open without any restrictions other than abilities... I think that the French have the right idea!

    Just this old chief's 2¢
  • 08-02-2007, 10:30 PM
    JSPhoto
    Re: Amnesty Plan
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by maheanuu
    I immigrated to French Polynesia in the mid 70's and went through the hoops that the French Government made me jump through. At the time I started, I wasn't sure if it was worth the effort, along with the fact that for that 2 years I wasn't allowed to work. Once I received my Cartes Se Jour, I could apply for work, but if there was a local without a job that was qualified, I was denied.. Once I became a citizen everything changed as I was considered a local and all work positions were open without any restrictions other than abilities... I think that the French have the right idea!

    Just this old chief's 2¢


    Congratulations! I have RESPECT for those who DO follow the law and I have disdain for those who skirt the law, whether it's by illegally crossing the border or staying after your green card expired, there is no excuse.
    I agree, the French DO have the right idea, and it is one I would support, partly because there is no question the person EARNED the right to become a citizen. I hjave heard that the French require you to learn the language PLUS take a test as part of the requirements, and the test is in French.
    Here we cater left and right to Hispanics who REFUSE to learn English, and that has put an aweful strain on the budgets of schools who have to hire Spanish speaking teachers, police departments who have to hire Spanish speaking officers or interpreters, and for business it has forced them to go to Spanish ads and warning labels costing business millions.... an economic impact of major proportions that would be avoided if the leaders would just say enough is enough, learn English or go back to Mexico or whereever.

    Again, congratulations on your efforts, the 2 years must have been tough but you stuck with it and you succeded!

    JS
  • 08-03-2007, 09:28 AM
    Sushigaijin
    Re: Amnesty Plan
    I've always thought that one of the greatest things about the USA is that you don't have to speak english, even though my command of spanish is woefully insufficient. The country was set up that way intentionally, it is an unamerican concept to force language upon people. In practice a national language might make things cheaper and easier, but it also undermines freedom and liberty - both things that I would rather not give up.

    There are some high-on-the-hog restaurant owners, but by and large they are humble, hardworking people who don't make a lot of money. I always joke that the owner is the worst job in the restaurant. Many of them have their houses on the line (if they even own one) and have invested too much time and effort, and possibly other people's money as well, to squander it away on fancy cars and drugs. So it is certainly possible that some of them are living it up, but please don't take that as an indictment to the general nature of my business - not all of us, in fact not most of us, are drug addled high rollers - most of us are just trying to scrape by.

    I've never EVER had a white american apply for a dishwashing or night porter job, even when they are posted in the newspaper in king's english. American jobless is an interesting sect of society, it is hard to generalize about why they are not working. Certainly some don't want to work, and would rather be jobless. Some are mentaly ill or physically handicaped in such a way where they cannot participate in mainstream society. Some are between living or working situations, and will work. Some have too many obligations at "home" to work, such as children or ailing relatives. That's a tough spot to generalize - I'd certainly hire an american for a classically hispanic job if they were qualified for it. I always offer the dishwashing job to recent culinary school graduates who come begging for work :D

    Those who will work it, tend to be better cooks and better employees than those who turn their noses.

    As a state participating in an increasingly globalized economy and intergovernmental society, it is imperative that the USA does not anger Mexico when dealing with the border situation. As geographic barriers are broken down, our success is inextricably entwined with Mexico - to try to live without them, or their labor, would be devastating to the US economy. It would be a bit like cutting the power lines because you don't want to pay the power company anymore.
  • 08-03-2007, 10:00 AM
    JSPhoto
    Re: Amnesty Plan
    Screw the Mexican govt, they get billions of US dollars and it winds up in the pockets of theiving officials instead of where it was intended to go. The govt refuses to turn over murders, rapists and other criminals who are hiding in Mexico from US justice. The Mexican govt does nothing to stop the flow of illegals, and as said before they HELP them. The worthless illegals (those who cross the boarder illegally or stay on expired Green Card) are draing US resources and breaking the budgets of schools and police departments. They are KILLING the US economy and not helping it.
    BTW, they just announced that one of your so called legal Green Card, tax paying Mexicans was busted driving semi and hauling 27 pounds of cocaine.... which he brought from Mexico. Once again it shows that these people have no respect for our laws or the freedoms we have. Now we taxpayers have to pay to keep this idiot locked up.
    At the same time we have what basically amounts to a drug war between blacks and Mexicans thats costing millions just here in Indiana. Daily we have pursuits when police try to stop a Mexican to give them a simple ticket and the idiots run. Crime in Indy has continually risen in direct proportion to the influx of Mexicans and others from South of the border (although 90% are Mexican).
    Also there is a 200% increase in hit and runs, and it is directly related to Hispanic drivers who for the most part do not have licesnes. This is a national problem as well.
    Indy has a huge jump in assaults this year, up 400% allmost exclusively in areas comprised of Hispanics
    We have warrants for a Mexican whos hiding in Mexico following a fatal hit and run and once again the Mexican govt. refuses to turn them over even though they know right where the guy is..... Screw the Mexican govt, who cares if we piss them off, close the borders and send the illegals back.... things will get MUCH better in this country once that is done.
    If something isn't done soon about this you WILL see another civil war, most Americans are fed up with high prices of fuel and taxes, one of the reasons for those tax hikes is directly related to the illegals to help police depts hire Spanish speaking officers and interpreters and for schools to hire Spanish speaking teachers and build bigger schools.
    It's also time to start jailing ALL business owners who hire illegals. No jobs and they won't cross the borders in hordes. Enough is enough....things will explode one day if the US govt. doesn't act fast to stop the flow and get the illegals out.... even the police are fed up.

    JS
  • 08-03-2007, 10:52 AM
    livin4lax09
    Re: Amnesty Plan
    none of this drug war and transportation occurs between citizens of the US?
  • 08-03-2007, 01:26 PM
    JSPhoto
    Re: Amnesty Plan
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by livin4lax09
    none of this drug war and transportation occurs between citizens of the US?

    At this time the Mexicans are trying to take over the drug trade in Indy from the blacks. The situation is getting out of control. For the first two months of the year there were 2-3 shootings PER DAY in an area that there had been one a week. It was just these two groups involved in these and recent incidents, although many innocent victims were caught up in it too.

    Today while driving through downtown Indy, with a police car in front of me I watched a Mexican do a drug deal and the cop didn't budge. The cop just drove off.
    Sure there are whites and others dealing and transporting drugs, not the ways these new Mexican groups are operating though. And they wonder why a family was sjot to death last november, 7 killed over a bad drug deal, mostly kids.

    JS
  • 08-04-2007, 06:27 AM
    mwfanelli
    Re: Amnesty Plan
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Sushigaijin
    As a state participating in an increasingly globalized economy and intergovernmental society, it is imperative that the USA does not anger Mexico when dealing with the border situation. As geographic barriers are broken down, our success is inextricably entwined with Mexico - to try to live without them, or their labor, would be devastating to the US economy. It would be a bit like cutting the power lines because you don't want to pay the power company anymore.

    If the need for Mexican workers is so huge then the employers can be prove that and we can pass that oft-suggested worker visa program. However, that is not the problem. People who enter this country illegally should NOT be given a preference for these jobs. Allow Mexicans to apply and legally enter, round up the illegals and send them home banning them from future employment in this country. A person who disrespects our laws is not someone we want to welcome. In all other cases, criminals are thrown in jails. Illegals are given a free ride. That is why so many citizens are angry.

    Don't "anger Mexico"? Wow, you have to be kidding! Have we as a country lowered ourselves so much that we have to lick Mexican butt to survive? I hope not. Mexico is highly dependent on the the US, not the other way around. Although poorly stated by a poster above, the facts are simple: Mexico is riddled with corruption and crime in political circles. Most of the money generated by Mexico is wasted lining the pockets of a few. If Mexico fixed their corruption problems (rather than just making empty promises) and tried to use the money to create their own jobs in their own country, US citizens would not have as many problems with LEGAL Mexican workers in the US.

    Once again, you are making silly statements hoping they will eventually be taken as true. No matter how hard working these illegals are, they are still illegal. They thumbed their noses at our laws. No amount of hard work can't make up for that.
  • 08-04-2007, 10:45 AM
    masdog
    Re: Amnesty Plan
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Sushigaijin
    I've always thought that one of the greatest things about the USA is that you don't have to speak english, even though my command of spanish is woefully insufficient. The country was set up that way intentionally, it is an unamerican concept to force language upon people. In practice a national language might make things cheaper and easier, but it also undermines freedom and liberty - both things that I would rather not give up.

    Eric, I disagree. The language you speak in public has nothing to do with freedom and liberty and everything to do with the society you're trying to mainstream into.

    You want to throw out "unamerican concepts," let me tell you what is unamerican. We have people entering this country illegally to find work. They don't know our language, and they don't plan on learning that language. Then they demand that we learn their language so we can communicate with them.

    What pisses me off the most is that when we want to send those who are here illegally back, they hold rallies and protests as if they are entitled to be here.

    It used to be that people would come to our country for a better life. They would spend the first couple of years in communities of their nationality learning our language and customs until they could become citizens.

    Quote:

    I've never EVER had a white american apply for a dishwashing or night porter job, even when they are posted in the newspaper in king's english. American jobless is an interesting sect of society, it is hard to generalize about why they are not working. Certainly some don't want to work, and would rather be jobless. Some are mentaly ill or physically handicaped in such a way where they cannot participate in mainstream society. Some are between living or working situations, and will work. Some have too many obligations at "home" to work, such as children or ailing relatives. That's a tough spot to generalize - I'd certainly hire an american for a classically hispanic job if they were qualified for it. I always offer the dishwashing job to recent culinary school graduates who come begging for work :D
    Today's youth is spoiled and lazy. They want the $10 an hour jobs "working" at some trendy place where they can hang out with their friends all day long. So of course they won't come applying for those jobs where they have to bus tables, wash dishes, or any sort of "manual labor."

    You also left out one category of people who don't want to work - the ones who sponge off of my tax dollars.

    Quote:

    As a state participating in an increasingly globalized economy and intergovernmental society, it is imperative that the USA does not anger Mexico when dealing with the border situation. As geographic barriers are broken down, our success is inextricably entwined with Mexico - to try to live without them, or their labor, would be devastating to the US economy. It would be a bit like cutting the power lines because you don't want to pay the power company anymore.
    Piss of Mexico? WTF? Dude, whatever you're smoking, I would like to buy a whole lot of it if it can distort my perceptions so much that we think Mexico actually matters.

    On a global scale, Mexico is nothing. If they weren't on our Southern border, we wouldn't even pay attention to them as there are more important nations that we need to be careful not to piss off.

    Like China, where most of our manufacturing is. Or the nations that have our oil supply by the balls. Or our friends in Europe, Japan, and even Russia. They matter more to us than some garbage dump on our southern border.

    The fact is, we can live without Mexico. We have enough people in this country to fill most jobs that hispanics fill now. The question is would Americans fill those jobs.
  • 08-04-2007, 11:54 PM
    Sushigaijin
    Re: Amnesty Plan
    Alright, I think we need some clarification here. I'm not sure you will all agree with these, but this is the way I see it. This is an extremely conservative stance, but I'm not sure that easy solutions are evident in the situation.

    1) It is not good that we have illegal immigrants. Something has to be done to fix the transient nature of that status. What that solution is will not be as simple as closing the border and deporting those concerned. In the mean time, rest assured that EVERYONE pays taxes, even illegal immigrants. They are paying for your social security just as sure as you are.

    2) the USA cannot exist without illegal immigrants today. If they were all shipped away tomorrow morning, the entire country would shut down. they are inextricably linked with our workforce and our economy. An increase in employment of citizens will expand the underclass and stall economic growth. The economics of this makes my head hurt, but I do know that a real solution would enable those already working to continue working as the solution is realized, a poor solution would uproot the existing economic influx and create a void. Removing or changing any part of our economic structure is not a good thing. This is the same reason why states should not depose governments - look at the mess we've created when we removed the iraqi government.

    3) Closing the border to Mexico is a poor political move. Mexico is our second closest neighbor (by border length) and has been a solid political ally. Yes, they are dealing with some corruption, but it is only worse than USA's corruption because it is blatent. Political corruption in the states is just as widespread, except that it operates on the archetype of quid pro quo . A real solution here is to work with the Mexican government to reform their policies, not strong-arm them into submission. A lasting solution must be worked out between our states, and regardless of fences or mass deportations, illegal immigration will not stop until people don't want to immigrate illegally.

    4) National language mandates are a theoretical part of the USA's inception. It was considered then, and it is deliberate that we are not obligated to speak english. considering that over 13% of our population self identifies as hispanic, it is a small wonder that we didn't start catering to spanish speakers long ago. As our country moves to be more hispanic, we will likely see english being relegated to a secondary spot on labels and forms. Although some of us may not like that concept, the idea behind it is solid - as our population changes, so does the framework behind it. If hispanics become the majority, which they may, it makes sense that most of the language spoken may not be english. Locking into a mandated language now is short sighted and fails to take into account changing population trends. The USA would be held back if they failed to adjust to a changing populous. This is a similar reason to why most americans feel out of touch with their governments.

    Eh, I have to get up early in the morning - I'm sure this will be continued later.
  • 08-08-2007, 01:57 PM
    JSPhoto
    Re: Amnesty Plan - illegal bridge building
    Owner of steel company arrested for useing illegal immigrants to build bridges in three states, the illegals had falsified SSN #'s and were not properly certified as weldors.
    This is ANOTHER example of why we do not need these people here, they were not paying taxes, they were not going by the laws.

    http://www.sunherald.com/201/story/112962.html


    Eric, re-read my previous post, there is simply no excuse to allow these people to keep crossing our boarders, drain our economy or give a crap about what the Mexican Govt. thinks about it. Ship them all back shut down the border and let the Mexican Govt. deal with them, they created the problem, they can fix it....although the corruption in the Mexican Govt. would dry up in order to fix things there.

    JS
  • 08-08-2007, 02:28 PM
    mn shutterbug
    Re: Amnesty Plan - illegal bridge building
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by JSPhoto
    Owner of steel company arrested for useing illegal immigrants to build bridges in three states, the illegals had falsified SSN #'s and were not properly certified as weldors.

    I sure hope to heck that it wasn't illegals that were involved in the building of the bridge that just collapsed on I-35 in Minneapolis, that claimed a few lives.
  • 08-08-2007, 02:36 PM
    JSPhoto
    Re: Amnesty Plan - illegal bridge building
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Minnesota scroller
    I sure hope to heck that it wasn't illegals that were involved in the building of the bridge that just collapsed on I-35 in Minneapolis, that claimed a few lives.

    I doubt it, but you never know. That bridge was built 35 - 40 years ago and the illegals weren't as much of a problem then, although they were in border states in the Southwest.

    I think what they will find though is very poor maintenance and possibly some short cuts in original construction of the bridge, ala the walkway in a shopping center that collapsed killing 30 (?) several years back. They used improper cement mixture and lighter than spec steel in that one.

    JS
  • 08-08-2007, 10:29 PM
    Sushigaijin
    Re: Amnesty Plan
    If they were using falsified SS#s, they WERE paying taxes but will never be able to claim governmental benefits - this is why we get money for nothing from illegal immigration. The most common way to "launder" payroll is to share SS#s, which means that several people pay taxes under one number but will never see anything in return. Quid pro quo, once again. The "drain" on US tax dollars is negligable once the gain from illegal SS# use is calculated.

    Just because an illegal activity isn't malevolent doesn't make it right - but finding a solution that is equally benign is important. Don't bring a gun to a knife fight.

    I'm also not going to defend these guys who are using "inappropriate certification." That is a whole different story, and they should be using people who are properly certified. The immigration status of the workers who are properly certified is not nearly as important as the certification. Illegals can do exactly the same job, given that they are both equally qualified.