Nikon focus question

[Dr_Zyzix]

I am using two cameras (Nikon D300 with Nikon 17-55)
and a Canon P&S SD870
I also have a Nikon D200 and observe the same there- so this is not specific to the D300
What I see is that while the subtleties of color etc are greater on the expensive Nikon,
the focus seems better on the P&S
I have attached two crops of much larger pics, both at 100%
the face is the Canon pic, the blankets the focus point of the Nikon pic
both handheld
Canon- 1/125 F2.8 ISO80 focal4.6 no flash
Nikon- 1/320 F2.83 ISO200 17mm(x1.5) no flash
This is absolutely typical- I could choose any two photos from the cameras

Note that at 100% the P&S is quite clear
And the Nikon is blurry
I can change Nikon bodies and even to another Nikon prime lens - and still the same thing
Anybody have any ideas why?

[Dr_Zyzix]

Here is another Nikon sample
again blurred at 100%
1/125 F5.6

[Grandpaw]

Can you post the original picture of the Nikon shot? Seeing a blow up of the out of focus area doesn't tell me much without seeing the whole picture. You could be wanting one area in focus and your camera looking at a different focus point and that would put the main subject out of focus. Look through your viewfinder and see which focus point has the bracket on it because that is the point that the camera will be focused on. If you are pointing the center focus point on the subject and the camera is focusing on another point it will make the subject blurry, Jeff

Note.... The focus point in the viewfinder that is on the subject needs to have the bracket around the same focus point.

[Ruffus_Griffin]

Are you shooting in jpeg or raw format on the Nikon cameras? I know my files from both the D200/300 both need some sharpening to get them looking good.

How do files look with different lenses?

[Dr_Zyzix]

Ok I have tried to standardize this a bit
both shots are as close to the same focal as I can get
both taken at the same spot at the same time
Nikon is actually tripod (1st)
Canon is handheld (2nd)
both are at the focus point chosen by the autofocus
as you can see, the dynamic range of the Canon is inferior
but still looks sharper
Both cameras shot at best quality, largest resolution-least compression JPEG

[Dr_Zyzix]

Pictures for comparison

[Dr_Zyzix]

The Canon--

[Franglais]

You should have done your test with exactly the same view in the viewfinder. The Nikon lens was at 17mm (= 25mm in film terms) and the Canon was probably only doing a 35mm view.

The Nikon is a professional camera which means that it is set up to give a fairly neutral image by default. If you want something different you can set the camera up to do it. The Canon is a point-and-shoot which means the image is sharpened, saturation increased etc. to make it look good for the average consumer..

I applied the "Sharpen more" option in Paint Shop Pro to the Nikon image and I got this. I should probably have increased the saturation as well..

[Dr_Zyzix]

Thank you for looking.
I understand the difference between the two cameras.
And in the leaves it appears very similar- except the Canon had sharpened it in camera and the Nikon had not.
But I assure you the example of the door pattern is typical of what I get with the Nikon on most shots
-ie looks pretty good looking at 1/4 - 1/2 real size but always blurry at 100%
even on a flat (no depth of field) highly lighted surface such as this door
maybe it just is not possible to get an image that sharp at 100% handheld w/ the Nikon.

[Franglais]

Have you tried increasing the sharpness settings in the D300? The camera won't do it by itself. The door is flat and grey. It won't look sharp unless you adjust the image to enhance the edges of lines

[starriderrick]

Are you within the focus range of the lense? It's so easy to get too close with a W/A. Also put a 50mm on your D300, test that lense.Might be a lense issue.
Set up a tripod...I have a very heavy shutter finger, I always try at least 1/320 hand held or shutter delay / timer...ect.. Don't blame the camera...untill you know it's not the lense. Check your AF settings,re-check.Just my thoughts.

Rick

[Dr_Zyzix]

Ok will do
In case I was not clear- I'm not comparing the two cameras-
I am just concerned about the fact that at 100% I can never find a place in my pictures that is in focus.
I thought maybe you never can- but then I looked at the Canon shots and they looked ok- so I am uncertain what is wrong.

Here is a shot taken on a tripod with the D300
the focus point is the center of the plant
looks ok at 25%
and yet when seen at 100%
again, there is no place in the picture that is in focus
tried this from F2.8 to F22
no joy

[Franglais]

When you look at an image at 100% without any special treatment it does not appear to be very sharp. Your point-and-shoot is always applying a lot of sharpening which is why your Canon image appears to be sharp at 100%. If you applied the same sharpening to the D300 image it would look the same.

If you want your pictures to appear sharp at 100% then you can set the D300 up to do it. However normally you do not view the image at 100%. It makes no sense to sharpen detail that will not even be visible on a small print. You need to apply the right degree of sharpening so that details that are visible in your final print (or whatever) look sharp.

I leave the sharpening on neutral in the camera, do my image treatment, resizing, test prints, etc. and only apply sharpening at the last moment to make the finished image look sharp.

Here is a picture from my D300 done on a sunny day at f8 on my 50mm f1.8 on a subject about 100 yards away. It is in focus. The first image is a 100% blow-up with the standard camera settings. In the second image I have applied the rather brutal sharpening that I applied to your images earlier.

My pictures are in focus. So are yours.

[DeniseSoden]

Franglais said it well.

You are concerned about the result that is caused by two factors:
First, SLRs vs point and shoots appeal to two different demographics. Point and shoots are easy, out of the camera to printer ready (for most people). Shooting in RAW (but even in JPEG) the SLR is meant to have post processing work done.

Secondly, is Nikon vs Canon. I've used both. I like both. I, like you, have a Nikon SLR and a Canon point and shoot. People have different preferences but generally Canon SLRs tend to be sharper straight out of the camera (because they're set that way), but Nikons tend have better noise management, it's just a trade off. Paired with the first point, Nikons especially are meant to be sharpened before being printed.

[mudd]

This is a great thread.

Let's say I want to be lazy and take a few P&S style shots with my D90... If I crank up the saturation and the sharpening and save it as a custom setting, I should be good to go? Any other setting I might want to add to those?

[Dylan8i]

i had my d200 set to "vivid" and i rarely needed to sharpen my photos.... saturation was a different story though.

[Franglais]

The D200 default setting is really neutral. I found it was a bit too calm for my 18-200 but it looked okay on the 28-70.

On the D300 they added "Standard" and made that the default setting. It's a bit more perky.

I don't have the D90 but the default setting on the D60 is pretty saturated. I think that the cameras intended for amateurs are set up to give strong colours while professionals get something neutral. Just like in films..