Web Page Design advice please

[mjs1973]

I'm in the process of designing a web site for myself and I would like your input. Below is a picture of what I have come up with. Overall, I like it and it is what I had pictured in my head before I started, but I want to know what you think. My web page building skills are one, maybe two steps above having none at all. I built it using Dreamweaver MX, and one of the framesets that is build into the program. I know that some older browsers aren't able to view frames so maybe this isn't the best design. Any advice?

[Asylum Steve]

...I think it looks fine. You have a single strong image and a simple black, gray, and white palette (with the red plash for impact) used in a strong asymmetrical block graphic. Everything is easy to see and read, and the menu is presented in a logical manner.

Still, web sites are judged as much on their functionality and ease of navigation as their look (maybe more so), so we'd need to see at least a working mock-up of the actual site to get a better idea of how good the design really is.

[mtbbrian]

I especially like it Mike!
It looks a lot like mine!
I would suggest that you look at the sites of photographers that you like.
You might also post this in the Website Forum, a little traffic over there would be good!
Good Luck!
Brian

[Todd Patten]

My first comment is to stay away from the red text. It's rare that red looks good on the web, and even more rare that it looks good on black.

The layout is good. Very standard. Frames are not a good approach in my opinion. I could care less about backwards compatable browsers because it makes up about .01% of users. However, frames are kind of, I dunno, "tacky" I guess.

[mjs1973]

Thanks for all the quick feedback everyone! I'm in the process of getting a few mockup pages to work and as soon as I do, I will post a link to them. Thanks again!

[another view]

Michael, I moved this thread over to the Web Design forum - please post the mockup pages here too.

Like others have said, it's simple and bold - but the functionality I think is at least as important as the design.

[mjs1973]

Here is a link to the site. I have a couple of questions. When you go to the gallery pages, there are thumbnail images to click on for a larger image. They are links to jpg files and when they come up, they are not centered within the frame, and they have a white background instead of the light gray that I have set for the frame itself. So how do I correct this? Do I have to make a page with the larger image on it and set the BG color to what I want, then link to the page instead of the jpg? I also feel like there should be a back and next button on the page next to, above or below the larger image, just not sure how I want to do that yet. Any suggestions?

Another question. In the top title frame, I have by Michael J. Smith writen below Magic Light Photography, but it doesn't show up. It's as if the fram is too small. What do I need to do to fix that?

[mjs1973]

Michael, I moved this thread over to the Web Design forum - please post the mockup pages here too.

Like others have said, it's simple and bold - but the functionality I think is at least as important as the design.

Thanks Steve. I was just going to post this in the web design forum, now I don't have to.

[mjs1973]

Thanks for looking and commenting Penny. I'm the worlds worst speller.

[Peter_AUS]

Stay away from frames. Web Spiders will reference your pages incorrectly if you use frames, hence one of the reasons why they aren't in vogue anymore and haven't been for a long time. You are using Dreamweaver which allows you to draw and place items correctly within a page using a layout style. The templates are a good starting point to reference from them, but I haven't found one that actually works the way I want, so to me it is better to start from scratch. You have the layout you want, incorporate that useing layers in Dreamweaver and Tables. This allows you to place things they way you want to.

Check your email, ignore the first one, the second one is a redo.

[Chunk]

MIchael, if you have any time for reading take a look at
http://www.webstyleguide.com/index.html from Yale originally.

They also seemed sensible to me when talking about web design.

[mjs1973]

Thanks for the link Chunk, I will check it out when I get some time.

[Asylum Steve]

My first comment is to stay away from the red text. It's rare that red looks good on the web, and even more rare that it looks good on black.

All I can say is, I'm glad I rarely pay attention to that kind of advice. I can't even begin to imagine my web site without red text on black (definitely one of my favorite color schemes):

http://www.photoasylum.com/lobby.html

http://www.photoasylum.com/news.html

Truth is, simply saying red rarely looks good on black is a generalization. The visual vibration and readability of any color text on any bg has as much do with the size and font of the type as it does with the color.

Still, if what you say is true, hopefully my designs are an exception to that rule... ;)

[mjs1973]

All I can say is, I'm glad I rarely pay attention to that kind of advice. I can't even begin to imagine my web site without red text on black (definitely one of my favorite color schemes):

http://www.photoasylum.com/lobby.html

http://www.photoasylum.com/news.html

Truth is, simply saying red rarely looks good on black is a generalization. The visual vibration and readability of any color text on any bg has as much do with the size and font of the type as it does with the color.

Still, if what you say is true, hopefully my designs are an exception to that rule... ;)

I'm with you Steve. I really like the look of red text on black bg, as long as the font is readable.

[Peter_AUS]

I agree Steve and Michael, I didn't even worry about the comment about RED, seems to be typical of some comments being made by certain people on these forums lately. Just do what you want to do, leave it like it is, design works for you, and that is the main point isn't it.

I posted back a redesign of your home page the way you were looking for it to you without the frames which you can use as the bases for a template and use that to design the website from that if you wanted to.

Again frames are for specific types of websites, more intune to something like a book reference, along the lines of Adobe Acrobat layout and works well for that. Where people make fundamental mistakes with frames, is naming them title wise, keywords lists are often missed and usually don't contain any metadata at all, so search engines either list them incorrectly, on one frame is loaded from a search hit and sites therefore don't display well. Also frames can become difficult for people depending on screen sizes etc and create unnecessary scrolling as well.

Using the Layout features of Dreamweaver is an excellent way to design web pages, even using Photoshop to do the page design and then creating slices for the linking is good as well, especially if you want to use specific text styles images and banners etc that you can design better in graphic design software than you will ever do in Dreamweaver.

[mjs1973]

Thanks again for the info Peter, and everyone else too. The info you all have provided has been very usefull!

[ken1953]

Hi Michael...just checked out your site and I really like it...as for the red on black...color is subjective...some are going to like and some are not...for one...I like it...I usually have troubles reading some sites, but yours was right out there...no problems...my only comment was on your "landscapes"...great shots...but I don't remember anyplace in our neighborhood that looked like that...hahahaha...no really...I'd love to see your landscape site when you get more on there...they look great...and don't forget about our beautiful rolling hills around here...I know you probably have about a gagillion of them...like I do...hehe...Great beginning...looking forward to the finished project...oh and the frames...yeah...get rid of them...especially on slower connections...they tend to slow things down...and on a site with lots of photos...that could be detrimental..
Ken

[mjs1973]

Thanks for taking the time to look and comment Ken. Surprisingly, I don't have a lot of landscape shots from around here. I have been eyeing up the clouds today and am thinking about going out and taking so shots, but not sure yet. Depends on what the girlfriend wants to do. I'm glad you liked the landscape shots. They were just some pics I grabbed off my hardrive to put together a quick test page for the web, cause I knew they were ready to go. They were all shot on my vacation in Arizona, Utah, Colorado... somewhere in that general area. There is a link to my gallery in my signature with lots more if your interested.

[mjs1973]

This might be a silly question, but what the heck, here it goes. Are links always underlined on web pages? When I was building my little site, I liked the way the text looked before I turned them into links. Once I made them links, they became underlined. Is there a way to get rid of the underline and keep the word a link?

[ken1953]

This might be a silly question, but what the heck, here it goes. Are links always underlined on web pages? When I was building my little site, I liked the way the text looked before I turned them into links. Once I made them links, they became underlined. Is there a way to get rid of the underline and keep the word a link?

I've seen some links that would highlight when you scrolled over them...but...sorry...don't ask me how to do it...hehe...I'm pretty sure there has to be a way somehow...
Ken

[Mig]

Not a silly question at all. By default they are underlined, but it can be changed. The easiest way to do it is to add the following to the head section of the html:

<style type="text/css">
      a   {text-decoration:none}
      a:hover   {text-decoration:underline}
</style>

This will remove the underline, except when the mouse is placed over the link. If you don't want it to even do that, just remove the a:hover line, but I would suggest leaving it in - people tend to get frustrated when links aren't easily distinguishable.

You could also do rollovers of text images (what Ken was probably referring to) with Javascript, but that's a little more complicated.

Danielle

[mjs1973]

Thanks so much Danielle! I just pasted it into the code and it works perfectly!!! I love this site!!!

[ckozo]

greetings,

here's lot's of feedback....

1. as mentioned, do not use frames. search engines have trouble with them. plus, you increase the difficulty of a visitor to bookmark the correct page.
2. none of your pages have titles. this also is not good with search engines, plus it reduces the usability of your site --- click on the back button, that long list of "untitled documents" is not much help for navigation.
3. using red for the text is not great for reability due to the lack of contrast. red on black may be fine for you and some other visitors to read, but think of an older person whose eyes are not as good as yours. ditto for someone who may be color blind.
4. speaking of readabilty, italic text is harder to read and the font size is too small.
5. fonts too small??, why yes when using my browser (Firefox). Keep in mind that not all the world uses internet explorer as their web browser. Using a different browser, you may be surprised at how your site looks. Good to test and not be surprised.
6. if a page does not yet contain content, then don't yet link to it! you waste visitors time by having them link to a page that says "content coming soon". Never good to waste their time.

Hope i did not upset and hope you find some of this helpful.

cheers.

[mjs1973]

Thanks a lot for the feedback!! No, you didn't upset me at all. The site is still a work in progress so any imput I can get is great.

Thanks again!